Also, not sure what Jo and Spider-Girl really had, but was NOT a fan of him apparently two-timing Tinya and Sussa. I like Jo as a street-smart guy, but not as a two-timing himbo.
On another note, I wonder what Bgztlian Blue tastes like?
Oh, and LSH 63 had one of the very few (only two IIRC) appearances of Legionnaire Mission Monitor Board symbols! I always wished the Postboot had used those more prominently. They were cool, and a very effective way of showing which Legionnaires were where in a single panel.
Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 04/06/1309:33 AM.
Late to the party! Wanted to chime in randomly on some of the Postboot's early hitters.
Postboot Invisible Kid I loved. I actually felt he was a great translation of the Lyle we saw in Adventure Comics circa the Outlaw Legion storyline - my favorite Lyle story ever.
I've got to echo Fat Cramer. While in the early days she was much more enjoyable, Apparition really bombed for me in this iteration. Easily my least favorite Tinya. Likewise, I think I only really liked Jo when he found his own groove without her at the end of Legion Lost and later The Legion.
In regards to XS, I'd like to think Waid was really smart with handling her. Had she been a confident hero from the start and everyone's drinking buddy, I'm not sure if as many people would have cared or been impressed with her. Conversely, I know making her seem meek initially may have turned off a few fans as well, but it filled a personality void at the time to let her stand on her own two feet.
I think he was also smart to give her a spotlight early on (Legionnaires #19) and then laid off her heavy focus for a good...year? I like that he continued her progression silently in the background, to possibly not annoy fans by focusing on the new kid so much but also showing she was finding her own. I think as early as her guest spots in Impulse (also written by Waid) you could see how cool and collected a super-heroine she had become, compared to her debut. Sadly, when she came back under the Toms I do think they let her quirks of speedtalkingwoah and boy confusion overshadow her.
LSH v4 #63 is one of my favorite issues for the hope it gave for the future of the reboot. I liked the introduction of their new Headquarters and the hints that the Legion would grow swiftly. It brought in Tenzil & Brainy proper, featured an adequate glimpse of downtime, showed XS striving to improve, and continued from the SW6 title's legacy of utilizing Mano as a true villain in his own right rather than the forgettable fifth wheel of the Fatal Five. I -loved- Brian Stelfreeze's art on the filler pages and was sad we didn't see more of him.
Loved the idea of a second team of heroes as rivals without being an outright LSV. I think having Live Wire transition over smartly helped ensure their paths would cross often with the Workforce, seeing as how several members were clearly designed to transition to the Legion eventually (Jo and Val mainly). It also allowed them to bring in Spark in an homage to Ayla starting on the Legion as a solo. I grew to love Inferno eventually, but I hated the notion that she was a Dirk replacement. I also hate that, in the long term, Spider-Girl never really went on to do anything after Jo except be hired help.
While I enjoyed the Planet Hell storyline for what it clearly was - a chance to pair the Workforce up with the Legion and watch the sparks fly - I think the storyline would have been better placed AFTER Andromeda, Vi, and Kinetix joined up. That way the reunion with Live Wire could have more impact than "Oh, that was an issue ago!" and there'd be a reason Andromeda knew where Planet Hell was when she chose to exile herself. The prison riot would have also been a good proving ground for the rookies, especially Vi as her hand-to-hand combat skills really weren't featured again until after Year One.
I always did think it was a shame that Kinetix, Violet and Andromeda hadn't been included in the Trade because they joined just after Planet Hell. Having Garth meet THREE new Legionnaires certainly would have been impactful - only problem is having Andromeda along on Planet Hell would have sucked a lot of drama out. "Oh, we're stuck in the Sun. Hey Andromeda, round up all the prisoners and then fly over to Colu for help, ok?" Hmmm, maybe not - they could have had most of the drama happen while Andromeda was off looking for help.
I always wondered about Inferno (and later on, Sensor). Was the female Inferno originally created as a replacement Sun Boy? If so, why? If the need for gender-balance, there were so many other females they could have brought in (and it's not like the Legion was imbalanced - by LSH 66 they had 8 female and 5 males in the active roster).
Just like with Sensor, it seemed like change for the sake of change. Of course, Dirk Morgna was eventually introduced, making it clear they were not one and the same. But I'm sure there was a lot of speculation on it at the beginning.
....only problem is having Andromeda along on Planet Hell would have sucked a lot of drama out. "Oh, we're stuck in the Sun. Hey Andromeda, round up all the prisoners and then fly over to Colu for help, ok?" Hmmm, maybe not - they could have had most of the drama happen while Andromeda was off looking for help.
See, I think it would have made for great story. Most of the prisoners were aliens, so she wouldn't want to touch them. I think her unwillingness to touch humanoid aliens is more impacting than giant spiders. Plus having to reel her in while they were taken prisoner would have made for some good scenes, seeing as how half of them could have broken out except they likely didn't want to risk each others lives if lasers started flying. There's always plot convenience that another Daxamite, like say ROXXAS or the four Daxamite horsemen, could have been there. They could have fled the planet once free, starting the Trom storyline, and then Andromeda could have been locked in his cell.
I always did think it was a shame that Kinetix, Violet and Andromeda hadn't been included in the Trade because they joined just after Planet Hell. Having Garth meet THREE new Legionnaires certainly would have been impactful - only problem is having Andromeda along on Planet Hell would have sucked a lot of drama out. "Oh, we're stuck in the Sun. Hey Andromeda, round up all the prisoners and then fly over to Colu for help, ok?" Hmmm, maybe not - they could have had most of the drama happen while Andromeda was off looking for help.
Did you forget that Planet Hell was inside a RED sun?
My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Oooh, red sun. It's almost like this story was begging to have Andromeda in it but they just got so excited they did it early. Kinetix would have been helpful digging up supplies with Brainy. Violet could have calmed Gim down, etc.
Yes, I definitely did forget it was in a red sun What stuck in my mind was XS' line, "It's inside... the Sun?" and somehow I was left with the impression it was in OUR Sun.
Ah, what could have been! Imagine Cos/Gim having to force Andromeda to join the team inside the Sun. Laurel: "BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY POWERS IN THERE!" Gim: "Tough. You have a transuit, an Omnicom, and a jetpack too. Or are you saying you're nothing without your powers?"
Heck, Kinetix and Violet could also both have broken out on their own just like Apparition did (only to waste her escape being all shocked by Jo and Sussa kissing, go figure).
One more plus for this portion of the Reboot? Despite having nearly all the early missions involve the whole active Legion roster, they managed to juggle everyone well enough that nobody felt left out.
Thinking on Violet's mission involvement made me realize what you said is true, Ibby. Planet Hell is really the last time we get the whole Postboot Legion together on a mission until the end of the White Triangle War. Even with the Composite Durlan, Andromeda was sent packing.
I appreciate that, unlike the Threeboot, Waid took his time to depict the establishment of this Legion. It's smart to do when you have two titles. The team grew quick enough into its name but I feel those early days getting to re-establish the characters and build their connections was so valuable.
It's a shame the Planet Hell storyline didn't serve to re-introduce us to more classic, lesser-known villains. We met Caress again and Bandarkat, though neither came back to my knowledge in-story.
I didn't even realize Bandarkat was a "classic" villain! I'm pretty sure neither Bandarkat nor Caress appeared again, yes. A bit of a shame that no other Postboot-versions of minor Preboot villains did show up.
It was also good of them to touch on the whole "we're a team, we always go together" aspect at the start of the Tangleweb arc. And to be fair, the team had a very good reason for sending Andromeda away during the Composite Durlan arc.
Another interesting thing is how well the team melded together (except Andromeda and Brainiac 5, to an extent). Everyone pretty much seemed to follow Cos and work well together seamlessly, at least up to this point.
Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 04/07/1311:00 PM.
Another interesting thing is how well the team melded together (except Andromeda and Brainiac 5, to an extent). Everyone pretty much seemed to follow Cos and work well together seamlessly, at least up to this point.
Writers like Byrne and Claremont, on their Fantastic Four and X-Men runs, seemed to love to play with various iterations of 'like a well-oiled machine' to describe their heroes working together, and even develop some special shared tactics, like the 'Fastball Special' used by Colossus and Wolverine (or the variation used by Reed and Ben, where Reed uses his elastic body as a slingshot to hurl Ben at a large or airborne target). The training room sequences (and the later indications that the Avengers and FF had similar training rooms) seemed to serve as a built-in justification for that sort of thing, and while the Legion not only has a training room, but an actual Academy, I feel like not nearly enough has been done in that vein, particularly with 'the new normal' being teams of super-hero Bickersons who don't much like each other, and work together spectacularly badly...
'Cause, 'heroes' = petulant jerks & moody loners who don't play well with others = drama, I guess.
Honestly, the last time I remember seeing two Legionnaires use some sort of team tactic like this was in the Smallville TV show, where Rokk and Garth 'synched up' to create an electromagnetic pulse to incapacitate Brainiac. (and claimed to have tried it before, less successfully)
(The less said about XS and Star Boy teaming up to create 'gravity tornadoes,' the better. Oy. It was nice of the writer to try, I guess...)
Honestly, the last time I remember seeing two Legionnaires use some sort of team tactic like this was in the Smallville TV show, where Rokk and Garth 'synched up' to create an electromagnetic pulse to incapacitate Brainiac. (and claimed to have tried it before, less successfully)
(The less said about XS and Star Boy teaming up to create 'gravity tornadoes,' the better. Oy. It was nice of the writer to try, I guess...)
That's a good point, and it is indeed rare. The instances I can recall are more of "okay, here's the plan and it requires perfect timing as to when we use our individual powers", but not quite like how you describe other characters actually combining theirs to produce effects that neither could do alone. Much less actually doing these moves on a recurring basis.
Still, there are some Postboot instances which required some pretty tight coordination:
Legionnaires 75, Umbra uses her darkfield to contain Wildfire's energy while Element Lad encases him in crystal.
LSH 100, Gates teleports Green Lantern's ring energy to trap Impulse.
LSH 121, Kinetix uses a cave floor to shield Element Lad, who transmutes said cave into a magnesium flare to blind the Emerald Eye. Not so much combining powers as just working together i coordination.
Legionnaires 50, Umbra uses her darkfield to disorient Mordru, while Sensor casts illusions to fool him. Particon, Mysa and Kinetix shield the group from Mordru's blast, Kinetix cuts off his oxygen, XS steals his trinkets. Monstress, Star Boy, Andromeda and M'Onel trap him in the metal sphere while Element Lad coats it with metal.
Legionnaires 73, Gates teleports Element Lad who transmutes the water elemental's "jacket" while Umbra uses darkfield to contain the fire elemental. Cosmic Boy magnetically tosses the water elemental through the fire elemental. Gates then ports the air elemental to a prearranged spot where Monstress smashes into it, and Mysa traps both water and air elementals in magical crystals.
I agree though that this should be played up more! A big draw of the Legion for me has always been their highlevel of camaraderie.
I agree though that this should be played up more! A big draw of the Legion for me has always been their highlevel of camaraderie.
These days it seems like writers can't wrap their heads around characters who actually GET ALONG most of the time. It's like they think the only way to write something "good" is to infuse it with a lot of unnecessary melodrama and out-of-character edginess.
But that's a product of the times, I guess. "Dark and edgy" has been the going trend for years across all media.
It's sad, because camaraderie doesn't have to mean that everyone gets along perfectly with everyone else. There can be disagreements too - what's important is characters are shown resolving those in a mature manner and that they actually work well together.
Okay! Let's jump chronologically for a few minutes and talk about the Legion of the Damned storyline!
Apparently this is where a lot of new readers came on, a lot of old readers came back, and where most consider the reboot Legion to have been revitalized from low sales and lackluster writing.
Even more than ten years later, I still loved it. The art was a bit messy (as I believe it was Coipel's first "big" job and he was still kind of getting to know hiw own style) but I think that actually added to the grimey feel of the storyline.
Being new to the Legion as I was back then, I didn't realize the Blight were a new villain to the Legion mythos. Even reading the storyline again, I found myself very creeped out by the whole idea of it. There's something ingrained about the fear of being taken to some dark place by some half-dead thing and never coming back. One of the most disturbing scenes for me was seeing Legionnaires strung up with hoses attached to their mouths. It broke my heart even as a grown woman.
I think what I liked most was the sense of desperation that the storyline had: I was terrified for the Legionnaires. And not because I thought they were going to die, but because I thought they were going to lose. I thought they were going to get hurt. That's good writing.
There were some bads. Some of my favorite Legionnaires had been taken out of the storyline before it even started. My beloved Lyle had already got the chokeweed before the first page even opened. Actually, as I recall from the initial read, I thought both he AND Garth were dead at that point. I recall being VERY upset. The eventual freeing of the Doda was also strangely vague, and I wasn't exactly sure what was going on even upon second reading. How did it blooming kill the Blight? A little explanation might have gone a long way there.
All in all though? It was great. As a teenager I was on pins and needles waiting for the next issues. As an adult I couldn't wait to open up the next issue and read it again.
So...what did you guys think of that storyline back then? Now? How do you think it stands up to a second reading?
those creepy covers! jeez. I remember they had promotional posters of the creepy faces on the covers in the cbs months before ... and i couldnt wait for it to come out ... even though i was not reading the reboot at all ... and then i got LOTD and it was awesome.
I thought Coipel's art really fit, i wish sometimes he would go back to that style. It was a huge switch from the previous reboot artists!
XS was amazing here, so was Imra, and even the bound Mon El who was still heroic.
I think the Doda was the blight's power source and once freed the Blight was too dependent on it and died or the doda, once free just kicked the blight's ass.
i remember being a little like ... "hmmm, that was quick" weird.
but now that i think about it maybe it was probably supposed to be abstract, as the blight were so evil, and bizarre and incomprehensible because the doda a very alien life form.
there are some TNG episodes like that ... where it was kinda ... "that's vague" but probably supposed to be vague.
i was confused by the chokeweed too, i thought the legionnaires were being snuffed! and messily.
evil Jo, evil Tasmia, and evil Val were crazy scary, and i really felt for poor Cham being the last survivor, and Cos and crew arrivals being totally out of their depth. I liked Monstress kicking butt heh heh
it seems like yesterday, hard to believe its like ... 10-11 years??
one of my favorite legion stories ever. and one of my rare favorites after 5yl.
I think what I liked most was the sense of desperation that the storyline had: I was terrified for the Legionnaires. And not because I thought they were going to die, but because I thought they were going to lose. I thought they were going to get hurt. That's good writing.
You could really feel each of the character's emotions as they were focused on. XS desperate flight, Imra's cold and steady plan, Cham's despair and loneliness, Garth's panic, Mon's frustration, etc.
I liked DAMNED more than the first LEGION LOST. The big, abstract ideas of the Blight and especially, the Doda Network, were imaginatively intriguing. I enjoyed the action-movie ending of the storyline, with the characters who we'd seen choke-weeded, possessed or otherwise taken down emerging over a hill to literally embrace when reunited with their teammates.
The current LEGION needs such a moment. Big time. Heck, every superteam should have such a scene every once in a while.
The eventual freeing of the Doda was also strangely vague, and I wasn't exactly sure what was going on even upon second reading. How did it blooming kill the Blight? A little explanation might have gone a long way there.
The energy of the Doda's "flowering" was toxic to the Blight, basically. They'd been using and abusing the core energy of the Doda, starving it, and intended to burn it with the energy they'd taken, using the "fire" to kill everything and heal themselves, but once the Doda converted it to the form we see in the latter pages, it burned them to ashes and thus ended their existence.
My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Previous Thread
What stuck in my mind was XS' line, "It's inside... the Sun?" and somehow I was left with the impression it was in OUR Sun. 
