Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Let's talk about LSH #14 (spoilers aplenty!)...

"What was the deal with the Reflecto guy?"

Vee - That's exactly what I meant.

I'm surprised there have not been more comments on the Reflecto incident.

Well, I finally got it and read it today...

I enjoyed this issue more than the last. (Still trying to figure out how I feel about #13 ) This was in the tradition of the "cath a breath" issues after the big story arcs when everyone had some downtime. We get the chance to check in with everyone (or almost everyone) and get some great background info.

A couple of things that have me scratching my head:

I'm a little surprised that no one has commented on the fact that two of the few Legionnaires we DON'T see at all in this issue are both Brainy and Cos...the two internal antagonists in this entire arc! Both are MIA and little if anything is said about them. What is is mentioned off hand. Brainy is supposed to have locked himself up in his lab (Shades of Supergirl robots!) and Cos has taken a leave we're told but very little in the way of an explantion is given.

We know (from last issue) that Brainy grabbed Lemnos but to my knowledge none of the others do (only Dirk saw this and he never said a word to anyone about it. So why isn't everyone else searching high and low for Lemnos? Do they think he was trapped with Dirk and Terra Firma? Why would they leave him there instead of insisting that he at least face justice?

Also, I found it jarring to hear that Cos had taken a leave and left Garth in charge. Where did he go? I assume he went back to Braal to see his father (and I suspect he will be too late) but it seems like a bad time to take off. HQ is demolished; the Legion is in shambles though victorious; Dream Girl is "somewhat" dead; things are still dicey with the UP and SP; his deputy has just jumped ship and decided to cast his lot with the vanquished enemy.

It feels like we're missing some panels to me. Didn't it seem odd to anyone else?

One thing I really didn't like was the mixing together of "Reflecto" and the Kenz Nuhor stories from the Legion's past. That part of this issue left me with a sour taste in my mouth. I had hoped that we might actually get to meet a real "Reflecto" in this threeboot. He would have made a great Legionnaire to be. Now it's not at all likely unless Waid is being tricky. (Just goes to show you how much I love that Adult Legion story I guess! )

I also found the off panel comment about "the darkside of fandom" irritating, though I have to admit I had read the spoilers about that here before reading the issue.

One other quibble: Why did Vi overreact and knock out Brother Allon? There's more to this than we've been told so far. I hope we eventually find out what set her off so much. I imagine that Imskians are use to hearing comments about "little people" but I suspect we'll find out there is much more to this than just a slight. (Perhaps Imsk was enslaved at some point and Imskians were forced into slavery.)

The part in the Allon household was cute. Apparently Ayla takes a while to get her bearings when she wakes up. Not sure I like the idea of Tinya betting with Jo as to whether Ayla would think she had "slept" with Brother Allon, reminds me of the period when Tinya was protrayed as quite a catty bitch. This incarnations is the first time I've actually enjoyed Tinya so I hope that Waid doesn't pursue that path for her.

I like Imra's mom. She's a take charge person and knows that the UP screwed up big time. She's trying to save face for the UP and give the "kids" something in return. The fact that her reward puts a small leash on their independence doesn't hurt her cause either.

Is anyone else wondering what reaction Garth is likely to face from both Cos and Brainy? I think they both might be a bit perturbed at the news of the Legion becoming an "autonomous arm" of Earthgov!

Finally, regarding Brother Allon and the "gay" issue. How/why would Tinya know that he is gay? She's hasn't been shown to be Gim's confidant (like she has with Jan) It's certainly possible that she has jumped to a conclusion or simply said it to be catty to Ayla. There is actually no reason to believe, nor have we been told, that our civilization has progressed beyond homophobia by the 31st century much as we would hope that it has.

(I would remind you that Dirk, Jo, and Jan were shown running in terror at the thought of sharing a bed with each other and Lu. Not the type of reaction one would expect from a society in which orientation is a non-issue. If it were, they would have reacted much differently, IMHO.)

Being gay may still be unnacceptable in the 31st century and it may still be used to stigmatize someone that's just a bit different. It happens today constantly and I've seen nothing yet that indicates anything has changed in this area.

Hopefully, Brother Allon will be used to explore this topic in some manner. I for one wouldn't mind at all if it turns out that all Gim's people can shrink in size and that his brother has a relationship with one of the guys. Or, better yet, maybe he already is in a realtionship with another young man named Condo, who happens to have catalytic powers. While interacting with the Legionnaires during their stay in th Allon househiold, Condo decides that he likes what they stand for and becomes a member.

And how could I forget the conversation between Lyle and Vi!

This also seemed a little bit odd to me. Vi actually likes the fact that Lyle made her out to be a snitch? Somehow this adds to her mystique? Aside from being disappointed that Lyle did rat out Cos, this turn of events really didn't feel right to me. Lyle's been feeling terrible about snitching and ratting out Cos but now that Vi has agreed to take the fall, he's all better? Makes him a pretty rotten kid actually. Apparently he wasn't worried about what he did, just about getting caught. Not nice.

I don't think that Lyle is necessarily "all better" after the conversation with Vi, but at least one immediate concern (i.e. her telling everyone the truth) is alleviated, so it's natural that he would feel some relief. I don't think this story is over by a long shot, however. I liked seeing the beginnings of a Vi/Lyle friendship, however. Will this lead to a new Legion Espionage Squad?

I don't think the Kenz Nuhor appearance prevents a regular Reflecto from eventually appearing. I actually thought the mixing together of the two stories was kind of clever. Kenz Nuhor's schtick originally was that he carried a shield that reflected Star Boy's power back on him. Internalizing that ability, which effectively gives him the Reflecto powers, was cool. A very unexpected choice for first re-imagined Legion villain, I might add...

EDE, I agree it ws very clever to internalize the power shield and turn him into Reflecto. It's just that I have a soft spot in my heart for that character and I've always wanted to see Reflecto become the Legionnaire he was suppose to be, not an amnesiac Ultra Boy inhabiting Kal's body.

I think he would make for a really great addition to the roster (besides, he looked really cool )

BTW, did you notice how much like Brainy "Reflecto " looked? even down to the purple body suit?

Similar reason to why Batman likes being thought of as an urban legend. I'm guessing she likes being the mysterious Legionarrie.

And I think you're thinking of the wrong definition of "presence."

I didn't notice that, but I was actually wondering if there wasn't supposed to be some sort of parallel between Reflecto's obsession with Dream Girl and Brainy.

I enjoyed this issue -

The first page was great- striking image and good comment -"about six" - bwah ha ha ha!

Liked the diplomats reacting to the media coverage and Mama Ardeen being proud of the Legions achievemants - I'm not sure about her motivation to include them in the SP - and also what exactly is her position that she can introduce it and it's not even debated amongst the other diplomats?

Ayla waking up disorientated is something I can relate to that - until I have a coffee or two I'm hopeless so this made me laugh.

Tinya casually mentioning Gims brother is gay was fine (I wonder if one of the guys will have a fling withhim in a later story?) though I wonder why she doesn't know Vi's backstory? I'm looking forward to finding out about this reimagined Imsk and their relationship with Brainy. Not sure if I like Vi smacking down Gims brother - I query if she would physically be able to!

Liked how Star Boy found Lyle - this also made me laugh, rather than just shouting out for him!
Learning Lyle did snitch to Brainy was well done - he is only 14 so I can see his understanding of the politics of groups is something that will be easy to manipulated, no matter how genius level he is he's in with a very mixed crowd of strong characters so he's some growing up to do. His encounter with Vi was okay, though I'm not sure if I'm taken with her quite yet - guess I'll have to wait and see.

Reflecto was great! It's easy to see that with a following of hundreds of thousands, if not millions there would be some stalker-ish characters so "the darkside of fandom" made perfect sense to me. Triplicate Girls comment about Reflecto not being alone in loving Nura was mt favourite line of the whole book - she's becoming one of my favourites. I'd like to see more of Reflecto soon. Perhaps my one real gripe id that amongst the crowds of l'il L's there don't appear to be any humans, though the Big L's are nearly all humans - can we have a few more alien Legionnaires please Messers Wacker, Waid and Kitson?

The SPs overreacted again, and it was great seeing Garth take charge of the situation - I know there's fall out due from this decision coming soon - can't wait!

The art was great throughout - I didn't mind there being two artists as the parts they drew seemed perfect for their styles. The colouring was a bit odd though as some parts were fabulously dark (am I the only poster who likes that look?) while other pages seemed to bright and empty IMO.

Legion '85? Hmmmm next issue looks like fun!

Good issue; needed more Vi.

Interesting that Vi wants to start rumours about herself among the rest of the Legion. Sounds like she doesn't want anybody to get to know the real "Vi". Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions.


I'm surprised Cham new more about Imsk than Phantom Girl did. Maybe the letterer got the word balloons mixed up.

Saturn Queen?

miss cramer is not from saturn.

Finally just sat down and read the issue. I found it good, loved the little bit of a focus on Garth. I think what made it suffer was too many artists, inkers and colorists. Or more simply, it lacked just the work of Barry and SnoCone. I truly hope we've seen the last of these multiple artist issue.

And did anyone else catch what the Omac called Karate Kid? Asshat. I about spit out my drink laughing so hard.

I liked the issue...also did quite (yet?) understand why's Gim's bro got punched. Liked his boxers (I have pajama pants that are pretty similar). I LOVED Amanda on letter pages. We've already seen her Polar Boy, I wonder if we/they could get her to draw Matter-Eater Lad or Bouncing Boy? Oh and why wouldn't Karate Kid want lamb chops? Its not like Brainiac did anything with them...right?

Thoroughly enjoyed this issue.


Like everyone else, I'm all for gay Legionnaires - personally I vote for Supergirl and Dawnstar.

After the dissapointment of the last issue, I thought this one was...promising. Decent story, good character scenes, acceptable art.

I like Atom Girl, except for her hair. Normally, I'm not in favor of hair extensions, but I think she needs some.

And I agree that the letters pages, with Amanda Conner's cute art, are becoming a reliable highlight of this comic.

Maybe KK is allergic to GOAT meat (not lamb).
Or maybe one of them was taken by him as a pet which suddenly disappeared.

It could be that Imskians consider being called a mythical creature (aka fairies) an insult/slur.

That was my read on Violet's reaction.

Hmmm... "Big Gay Al(lon)"... it IS "Legion Park"

I assumed it was more the "serve me" attitude that was the casua belli. Like maybe Vi's people had been enslaved, and Brainy's godlike status was due to his freeing them?

Or a combination of both.

This was an awesome issue. There were two lines that made me LOL-- one of them was "If anybody knows how she is in the mornings, it's probably you" and I believe the other one was "Start spreading it around that I dangled you over the city by the collar." I thought the entire Vi/Lyle scene was brilliant. This Vi is potentially the best version of the character ever.

The use of multiple different artists was much less harmful than I thought it would be. The reflections got a little excessive at times, and I was annoyed by things like the incompletely drawn crowd or Tinya's ugly expression in the panel where she's whispering to Cham. However, this stuff didn't detract noticeably from the quality of the story. I'm also very glad that Mark wrote the entire issue.

I am missing Barry, though. I hope that he will soon be able to get back on a regular schedule. Or else, if 30 pages a month is too much for him, then I actually wouldn't mind if the story length was reduced to 22 pages.

Quick question regarding Lyle and Brainy?

In the ZH Legion they seemed to be friends/rivals. In Superboy's Legion (elseworld) they were like adopted brothers.

The original IK died before my time but did he and Brainy have a friendship that I didn't know of?

Just wondering...cause I am thinking while Lyle is young there might been a reason he helped Brainy instead of being naive.

The original IK wasn't particularly close to Brainy - and he wasn't featured as a great scientific mind either - more focus on the espionage, IIRC.

This Lyle probably feels some allegiance to B5 for helping him with the invisibility serum and getting him into the Legion - although, given Brainy's attitude, Lyle's loyalty to him may be strained, or at least re-evaluated.


Regarding the U.P., there are two conflicting versions of the age of the group (also discussed here : it's young according to Triplicate Girl and Toling4rd, or it's several generations old. Was Cos surprised at the revelation that the U.P. exiled people/races - or that it had already existed for a long time? Are there are two U.P. organizations - one that failed in the past, and a new one just recently reformed? Or Is this another Lemnos trick (which would be getting tiresome, every inconsistency ascribed to Lemnos) - or some other flubbing of history/the timestream?

Maybe it’s a bit like Charlemagne and the creation of the Holy Roman Empire. Although we now see that the Western Empire had fallen and the creation in 800 AD was a new creature, to almost everyone at the time it was a simple continuation of the vast and immortal Roman Empire. Although crowned by the Pope Charlemagne was careful to have his position as Caesar (or Augustus, I can’t remember help me out here Cobie) Approved by the Eastern Roman Empire so that in theory they were both joint rulers of one entity.

I think both these things were later added through retcons. I remember that in an old Who's Who letter column, it was mentioned that Lyle had been the Legion's second best scientist. And at one point in v3, when Brainy visited Shanghalla, he was sharply affected by the sight of Lyle's grave.