Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Spoilers... Issue #35... For No Better Reason, Part One!

Gail, I've gotta tell you how cool it is to finally get to see your work on the Legion! I hope you'll get a chance to work on the new book in the future when it comes out in December.

I love these new villains. The cover was different, I don't recall ever seeing a cover quite like that one. Way to go!!!! I was just wondering at what point does this take place? Would it be between the Credo battle and the Qwardian battle? What happened to Takron-Galtos? That's where the Fatal Five were taken to last time right? What were the circumstances that led to the creation of Oasis 1? Persuader has a daughter? Wow! Can't wait to see where that will go. So Canary's powers when in contact with a Naltorian seer such as Dreamer applifies the "Canary Cry", is that right? Ooooh boy, the Legion are in for a tough fight, that's for sure! Can't wait to see the rest of the story! Keep up the excellent work!


I want to personally invite you and the team to the Legion chat. Tuesdays (5:30-6:30pm EST) and Saturdays (3-5pm EST). Just download AOL Instant Messenger from AIM.com, get setup with a Username and send a request to me (RassilonBTS03--aka supermanred2003 on the DC Boards (Ray Currie)) get into the chatroom called "The Legion" or...you can just send yourself an invitation to the room. Hope you can make it!

Long Live The Legion!

Read again. The ass-kissing comment was made AFTER GS decided sarcasm was the appropriate response to comments on the issue. She states that there is no heat felt from a poster on a message board yet has difficulty with my statement

"My guess is that the writer didn't/isn't capable to think the SF aspects through that far. Time and future issues will tell."

I don't know this writer from Adam (or Eve). In context the quote was clearly my guess concerning the writer's skill with SF, based upon what of her work I knew and had read so far. That would be this issue only. There is no mention in the quote of her writing in general or her personally. I have no knowledge of her skills in general nor should I care as I do not read her other books. I also stated that my opinion was open to change as future issues arrived and made clear that I thought holes would be filled in.

In context, I stated no conjecture that hasn't been written on these boards by any number of posters about any number of writers without receiving personal attacks and sarcasm.

"Yes, Blockade Boy, you guessed it, I'm too stupid to figure this out. Sheesh."

"Jeez, Loud, did you give any thought to WHY they might have a wooden table? "

Gail Simone DCMB

"part of the fun of comics is discussing the good and bad!"

If she had stuck to discussion, no problem.
If she had not misrepresented my response, no problem.
If she had simply asked for clarification, no problem.
If she had simply said "wait and see," no problem.
If she had waited for another poster to counterpoint, no problem.
If she had provided counterpoint, no problem.
If she had simply ignored, no problem.

All these I would welcome.

Instead she supplied an immature response.

I have problems with a writer using their position for personal denigration of any reader. Expect the same back. I remain comfortable with my statements.

BB, no offense but it seems to me like you're overcomplicating the issue and overpersonalizing it. Her response seemed completely in the keeping with the tone of your post, imo -- a tad confrontational, but not personal and in good humor. I see no reason why it's gotten so blown out of proportion (I don't see where she "personally denegrated" you). Calling her "immature" on top of it seems unreasonable to me. Maybe next time you can supply your list of appropriate responses ahead of time...

Fair enough if you can show a sarcastic post by me that PRECEEDED hers? It doesn't exist. My comments were my impression of the art and conjecture on the skill of the artist. Since when is this not fair?


My interpretation of her use of sarcasm in response to my posts and those of Loud (not intending to speak for Loud). As she is the "celebrity," to me her response was bullying (or an attempt thereof) and an attempt to put us on the defensive instead of respecting the opinions. As a teacher if I were to use that tone with a student, it would be unacceptable. Is there a difference here?

I supplied quotes in the order of their occurance to clarify my position. Please feel free to do the same.

I called her "response" to the posts immature. I stand by that.


Well, I supplied some at the end of my last post. Can we archive those?

Tromium,
But Jo's comment of "it's amusing the sprock out of me" doesn't directly refer to Tinya's feelings at all--it refers to Winema's "caring parent mode" as described by Umbra. In other words, Winema's pretense of motherly concern pisses Tinya off, but amuses Jo. I don't think there's any implication that Jo's amused because Tinya's uncomfortable--though he probably enjoys it whenever his wife stands up to her bitchy mom.

Ah, sentence-by-sentence dialogue dissection. This means we care, Gail.


Sanity,
Maybe it should fall under the "personality rewrite" heading, but we also know that he got an IQ boost--recall when he goes back to Colu and says he's ashamed of all the "junk" he built before his upgrade.

Hence his emotional instability might be a side effect of the Anomaly's overclocking his brain, and the implants might have been provided partially to counter that effect.

God, I hated the Anomaly.

One last thing for the moment, to be filed under under "REALLY RATHER PICKY" - I just gave the issue a flick through, and noticed that the flight ring on the "kiss" page is the wrong design - the L is serifed and not surrounded by a sunken black area.

Then, I ran a flight-ring check, since that got me thinking, especially with Gear's "Their flight rings all just went dark." on the facing page.

Given the "breakdowns/finishes" credit (as opposed to pencils/inks), I'm more inclined to blame Andy S than Dan J for this, but there is not a single flight ring drawn in the whole issue (apart from that one spotlight panel), even when their fingers/knuckles are clearly shown.

Careless again guys...

Oh, my. BB, please feel free to continue this conversation without me. I've seen enough of this particular behavior to know you don't need me to keep this going. I think you feel we're arguing or something, when I promise this is no big deal at all. You're certainly entitled to your opinions and I'm really just a guest here, so it's me who has the burden of being a good houseguest, as it were.

The rest of you must struggle against my bullying and tyranny!

I always crack up at this stuff, and I'm afraid some people don't quite see things as funny as I do. I hate bullies, and you can probably see that in my comics. Since I've never, in five years of having message boards, censored a single post or banned a poster (one complicated exception) despite hundreds of people who were much angrier than you, I think as a bully, I'm an abject failure.


I talk to readers because I really enjoy it (more than talking to pros, usually, in fact), and I feel that it's the least I can do for the support I've been given. But I can quickly recognize when someone's nose is bent out of shape to the point where they really aren't arguing with me anymore, just trying to keep stuff going that really isn't worth spending this kind of energy on. It is my OPINION that you've reached that point here, no matter whose fault it is.


But yeah, you probably shouldn't speak for Loud, since he didn't take my comments the way you did, and he apologized, and as far as I can see, neither of us have the slightest hard feeling. That's really the way I prefer these things to go, but that takes two people.


On to more egregious offenses! I apologize for assuming your gender, Cromium. I actually thought, oh, I should write a note in case Cromium is female, but for whatever reason, I didn't. I'm sorry! Lord knows I've gotten plenty of mail from readers who thought 'Gail' was a boy's name!


Silicon, I know you guys care--it's perfectly okay for you guys to let us know where we messed up! My problem is, while some of these things may be totally legit, a few relate to future issues, and I hate spoilers.

My response is always that it's nice that there ARE books where people are that dedicated and committed. Frankly, I love this thread, and I love that people care enough about the Legion to make a site like this. There are a lot of books where there really is no committed readership, and this kind of thing is one of my favorite parts of the readership.

As a matter of fact, the reason I became involved in fandom at all was because of a site like this for the KINGDOM COME series. I made a ton of friends, most of whom are my friends still all these years later. That site led to my getting a column on the site that that site morphed into, which led to editors asking me to write comics. So I take these kinds of sites a lot more seriously than maybe some pros do.

Yeah, I get that you care. I love that you do!

Best wishes,

Gail

Hee!

Actually, while we're correcting names, his name is Tromium with a T. (Hey, everone on Barbelith is currently referring to their patron writer as "George Morrison," so misnaming is apparently the cool thing to do.)

That's okay. Just make up implausible and unwieldy explanations and contradict yourself later! We won't hold it against you.

To be honest, I *cough* don't consider myself a member of the committed readership. I think the Legion's a great concept, but my interest comes and goes with the writers. I picked it up for Waid, picked up back issues for Giffen and the Bierbaums, got back into it because of DnA, and am staying for your and Waid's arcs. I just like sentence-by-sentence analysis because I'm anal.

But all these other folks are so committed it brings a lump to your throat, you may be sure.

A question, though this probably isn't the right thread for it--have you thought about doing anything with Waid on the upcoming relaunched/rebooted/rewhatevered Legion? (Or any other title, for that matter?)

No, you didn't use sarcasm, but you were suggesting a possible failure on her part in her writing ability -- not just an opinion on the story itself, but of her capability to think through what she's writing. Even though you meant it to be an opinion or a guess, can you see how your statement might've put her on the defensive? Yes, she was being sarcastic, but I still don't see it as a personal attack on you. People in informal and even friendly circumstances use sarcasm with one another and that's how I took her response.

Yes, the difference is that she isn't a teacher -- she has no authority over you and there is no real code of conduct. This is an informal forum and my feeling is that she felt comfortable enough to take your jab and respond with a bit of friendly ribbing. There's only bullying if she's exerting power over you and she has none - only what you imagine.

Well, that's my take on the situation. My hope is that you can read it and not have bad feelings about anyone who posts here -- be they a creative or just another poster (which is what Gail ultimately is).

Mark's my very best buddy, aside from my husband and my sister, so we're always very aware of what the other is doing, and often throw a few pages at each other to make sure something is working. I've been able to contribute a few small things to his Legion, but really, it's just like polishing something that's already bright enough to block out the sun. It's pretty great, I think.

We're doing a Simpsons issue together for Bongo comics, I'm a bit behind on my part. At some point, we'll probably collaborate more officially on something, but truthfully, our styles are very different. Our philosophies on what makes good comics are similar, but the styles are at great variance, or at least that's how it seems to me.

To be honest, I haven't yet done much collaborating of any kind at this point...maybe I'm too much of a control freak. Or just the freak part.

Gail

Aaahh, so you'll fit right in here

I hope when the new series takes off, you can tell us what "polishing" you contributed.

I'm hoping one of those "few small things" will be yet more uniform variations. 31st-century designers should be lined up around the block to get Ultra Boy or Dreamer to wear one of their numbers to an Honor Detail. Like the Super Oscars....of Space.

And what good are LSH action figures if you can't dress them all pretty?

No argument there. I'd just like a chance to see your respective dialogue and narrative styles used by different characters in the same comic. The Legion's a good venue for that since there are so many characters it can be difficult for one writer to give them all individual voices (I think that's a big reason why multiple-writer teams do so well with it.)

Or you could just stream all your conversations with Mark over the net, accompanied by a looping Flash animation of Validus picnicking with Lori Morning, and charge a monthly subscription fee. It'd be almost the same thing!

Meanwhile, you can't help but wonder how things are going on Karahdia. Brainy probably wishes he'd been sent there instead. Maybe they figured he'd had enough of rapidly evolving species. Is biochemist Lyle up to the job? Wonder if that telepathic napalm has taken out Imra? We may never know....

Gail Simone:
On to more egregious offenses! I apologize for assuming your gender, Cromium. I actually thought, oh, I should write a note in case Cromium is female, but for whatever reason, I didn't. I'm sorry! Lord knows I've gotten plenty of mail from readers who thought 'Gail' was a boy's name!


Grife! First Ronda alters my color, now Gail changes my gender AND my name. Guess it's only a matter of time before Mark reboots me out of existence. If feel like a character in Identity Crisis.

Gail, if Tinya tears Imra's hair out in the last issue, I might forgive you.

Okay, now I'm lost...

Gail

Tromium was green in Legion Lost. The new colourist for Legion 25 didn't get a reference for this and coloured it blue-silver

Yeah! Let's show the shameless hussy what for!!!

Wow! It took us that long!

Maybe it was the hair-tearing-out request that lost her. I shouldn't expect everyone to be aware of my "shameless hussy" fixation.

Just teasing you, Gail.


Um, but Imra WILL meet a horrible fate at the end, right?

And so the sarcasm continues, however thank you for helping me make my point. I DIDN'T "continue this conversation without you." I left it alone where you wrote let bygones be or words to that affect (effect?).

The conversation was picked up by Kid Prime and Drake and my response while concerning our interchange, was not directed at you nor required or rejected your potential response. It was not meant to invite further communication with you.

This and Drake's response "she has no authority over you and there is no real code of conduct" illustrate my point and difference of opinion on the responsibilities of celebrity.

A "celebrity" does had de facto authority and power and professionals do have a code of conduct.

Posters often feel a need to defend their celebrity. If your comments had come from another member of this board, they would have been taken as "in family" and generally (on this board) no one else would have felt the need to become involved. The "conversation" would have died.

Your responses to Loud and myself struck me as an attempt to take away dignity with sarcasm and put-downs. This you didn't do to posters that enjoyed the read. This you did to Loud on the negative review than did a complete reversal when Loud acquiesed.

That's called "bullying" at the worst and manipulation at the best. Your responses and removing comments from context seem (to me) to have the intent to rally the fans and quiet the dissent instead of addressing or ignoring it yourself, as a profressional would.

Last months issue was not too popular yet neither the artist nor the writer who both post here felt the need to address negative reviews in a sarcastic or negative manner. They addressed the posters' opinions with a counter opinion on the work or more info on the creative thought process involved in the work, not a counter opinion on the posters.


In short, I think your behavior has been unprofessional in this instance.

Spoilers for Issue #36

1) Karate Kid catches the "love bug" from Persuader's daughter on Oasis One.
2) Tasmia explains her new, nice disposition is only due to medication side affects.
3) Brainy explains his crazy, mental instability is only due to medication side affects.
4) In a fit of grief over the loss of her mom, Tinya inexplicably tears out all of Imra's hair.
5) Chuck and Gear use up eight pages of story tearing up the mission monitor board to correct the light bulb problems - concluded next issue.
6) Pinter reveals he is actually Cub in a surprise twist. Pinter comes from the name "half pint" the other Legionnaires used to call him last week when he was still a kid.
Organ transplants revealed to not stop unexplained accelerated growth.

BB, that's not sarcasm, that's an "I can't be bothered with a flame war." And you're at the least bordering on flaming.

Drop it, huh.

Especially #4! Go Tinya with the hair-ripping!!!

I've read the issue a couple of times (finally) and have read all the posts on this thread about it. Here's what I think...

By creating a thread for the cover alone, I'm sure everyone can already tell that I LOVE it! First of all, I'm a big fan of Nura/Dream Girl/Dreamer, so having her featured prominently on the cover is always a good thing to me. The campy art by AH! makes it even better.

I have to admit that I find the Dan Jurgens art to be just okay. I think his versions of most of the Legionnaires are generic. Could someone explain to me, again, why they don't look like teenagers anymore? Especially in contrast to Lightle's last issue, when Lightle thought it was very important to showcase their youth. I blame the editor for not making sure this has been consistent. I'll have to go back and find Gail's comment on that.... When did Vi become such a voluptuous bombshell? Brainy should be thin, a tad lanky, and his ears should stick out. Cham and Tas should each evoke a more elfish quality. I dunno. I suppose I'm being picky. Actually, everyone else looked good. Dreamer looked good...

I couldn't help but notice that Devil was complaining about all the tech, but she had a really nice holovision in her crummy, cracked plaster room. She also said Holy "Mole"-y. Wonder what that means... No one else has mentioned that...

I can't wait to see what happens with the Persuader's daughter. Love the facial art!

The Canary/Dreamer kiss... How Madonna/Britney! Oh why not? In fact, wouldn't that have been a saucier cover if rendered by AH!?

I LOVE the plot, the whole what-happens-if-the-tech-dependant-world-loses-it's-tech thing. Can't wait to see how it gets resolved. It sounds like a big ol cast of calvary is on the way! Looking forward to seeing the cadets again!

Yep, all the separate scenarios are really keeping me interested... How will Val fare? What will happen to Brainy without the implants? Is Winema really dead? Is Vi? What will they do to Nura?

I guess even my quibbles with the character depictions don't really take away from my enjoyment of the story.