Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! SPOILERS .... Issue #33: For the Future...Forever!

I guess it's okay to admit it unwillingly, then.

Well, I'm glad you enjoyed it, CJ. However, I do take exception to your statement:

Does this mean we should not have high expectations? It would be easy to read into this statement that comics are inferior to other forms of entertainment and, therefore, should be regarded as disposable. Somehow, I don't think that's what you meant.

Some of the old stories were goofy, but they did at least make an effort at dramatic tension. (In "The Super Moby Dick of Space," for example, there was tension as the whether Lightning Lad was going to throw away his career to destroy the beast. We identified with Lightning Lad because he wanted revenge for losing an arm. But we also identified with Saturn Girl and the rest for wanting to stop their friend from making a mistake. It's that sort of conflict that makes the story memorable after 30 years, not just the silly villain.)

When our heroes come in and mop up the floor with villains without any real conflict, there is no story. If the villains aren't much of a threat (particuarly after being built up as a threat for several years), then what's the point? We already know the Legion is going to win. To give them an easy victory, or one without twists, is not very satisfying to me.

I agree wholeheartedly, Wandering Lad.

Check the creds, Scooter-- Chip was AWOL. I noticed the inks on faces in smaller panels seemed a bit thick, so I took a look... Jay Leisten's got the inking credits for issue 33. No knock on Jay, I loved his inks over Greg Land on SOUJOURN... but what happened to Chip? His absence is duly noted and regrettable.

You're right, that isn't what I meant. Originally, comics were designed for a much younger audience. The stories were simple, short, and rarely ever connected to the previous month's issue, much less the previous years' issues. Without having 1800 pages, comics are forced to tell their stories with less background or in depth study of the characters. Compared to those early comic books, these last few issues certainly hold their own for story.

The problem is, readers are older now. We want more in our comic books. We expect pathos, character development, and machiavellian plots that rival a Clancy or Jordan novel. I'm not saying those things aren't possible. Read SOJOURN for a good example. But to keep readers as well as gain new ones, comics have to do both.

With only 2 issues, DnA gave us a villain and solved it by demonstrating the might of the Legion. I would have no problem giving my 8yo buddy these two issues and him enjoy it without knowing anything about the Legion or the Credo, or even comic books in general. He would have been entertained, and so was I- yes briefly, and with little effort, but still entertained.

Legion Lost told a great epic (for a comic book), and the last three issues were more light reading. That kind of mix is required comics to be a successful storytelling medium.

HWW, I understand what you're saying. There wasn't much meat to this tale. Honestly tho' after Foundations and Dream Crime, I was looking for some easy reads that didn't drag out over 6 months. That's a current trend in comics I'm really disliking. Why buy the single issues if the publisher is merely leading up to a TPB?

Gotta agree there with ya CJ!

I remember a day when a great story could be told in a one issue. Now it's a way to get enough material together for a TPB. Telling stories that go on for between 5 and 7 months and yet there have been this sort of story telling in the Legion and yet there have been NO TPB's released! :-( So what's the point??

I think many of the stories could be told well within 2 issues and for more plot and character developement max 3 issues. Maybe with this new larger format (30 pages. Wonder what that's gonna cost per month?) Maybe we will be treated to 1 issue stories and an OCCASIONAL epic of 2 or 3 issues. Heck even if that were the case DC could still create successful TPB's with stories told like this. Of course I can understand the writer might have a bit to do with this process to....

"I'm tired of 2 dimentional characters. I want to give them individual personalities and personal issues and all that a real humaniod would experience. So I'm going to need 6 issues to do this. Plot, development of character development, behind the scenes with the villian(s) of the story and an issue devoted to the resolution of the story line. It'll get a bit boring here and there but HEY so is life sometimes!!"

I can understand wanting all that stuff but I think Annuals and Specials and an occasional multi issue epic would be enough to get that accomplished instead of every story line needing multiple issue's to accomplish what most would be able to accomplish in 1 or 2 issues!!

Just my 2¢

My two cents echoes everyone else's... I thought it was a light, fun read, but at the same time, the rush of finishing things up made the story too weightless, and I do not view it as a particularly fulfilling wrap-up to DnA's tenure ... altho, to be fair, they had to wrap things up more quickly than they had originally anticipated. One thing I enjoyed a lot, as did many, was seeing the Espionage Squad in action, followed by the whole team taking part in Singularity's defeat. I will miss DnA, but I am eager to see what Waid & Kitson have up their sleeves.

I would disagree, but I guess it would depend on how we define "story."

For me, a story has to have three essential things: a beginning, a middle and an end. There has to be something "different" at the story's end -- someone has to have changed, whether it's a major transformation or just that someone learns something about him- or herself or the world. And the heroes have to face enormous challenges of some sort (a villain or their own shortcomings, for example) to make the journey worthwhile.

Well, I'm not sure I'm looking for pathos or Machiavellian plots. What I want is something to make me think or feel something -- a new way of looking at the world, perhaps, or something about the human condition ... the same things I expect from any other work of fiction.

Well, it took DnA much longer than two issues to set up the situation of Singularity and Credo. But I do get what you're saying. These two issues might not overly confuse new readers -- although they might, since you have to know the back story of Garth, Jan and Imra, among other things (such as what the heck Superboy is doing here), to fully understand it.

But I also think that most new readers are smarter than DC and many older fans give them credit for. I was nine years old when I discovered the Legion in a story that didn't spell everything out. If I was won over then, certainly older fans would be intrigued by the characters and concepts -- if there's a good enough story to showcase them.

Well, I thought both "Dream Crime" and "Foundations" were lacking in the meat department, as well.

I understand the need for "lighter" stories. The Legion has a long history of such tales, particularly backups during the old SUPERBOY/LEGION series. But, for the most part, those stories did not sacrifice the basic fundamentals of storytelling, as mentioned above.

I dislike this trend, too. But I think it has more to do with marketing than limitations of story telling and/or comics. In the old days (he says, scratching the grey hairs in his beard), a complete story could be told in 13 pages or less. Continuity did exist in those days, though comics were less saturated by them than they are now. But one shouldn't have to have 1800 pages to tell a comprehensive story about good guys triumphing over bad.

Well, HWW, sounds like we have a similar take on the issue (light reading, missing some teeth.) It's just our expectations on it differed. For what it's worth, I do think another issue would have been nice to really give this story some depth.

Ah well. Bring on the Gail posse.

Read it. Thought it very meh. The fact that I'm really not interested in expositulating more on it probably says it all.

I was in fourth grade in 1981 when I started buying Legion on a regular basis. Do you know what hooked me up front? It wasn't the stories, it was the characters. And it only took me a couple of months to get them straight. If Mark and Barry can give a book centered on strong likeable characters, the sky's the limit as far as I'm concerned.

Strong characters and good stories go hand-in-hand in my view, Director Lad. It's what the characters do in the story that makes them interesting.

I don't think the issue was that bad, but once again it seems like such an easy victory against an opponent the Lost team couldn't defeat and a movement which gains thousands of new members everyday, many of whom have metahuman abilities of their own. And that's what I thought about Dream Crime and Foundations too, and even the Robotica arc.

I'm with Kippers. Read it, it wasn't bad. Some good moments.

But the end wasn't really anything special, and I'd rather have some scenes dealing with the personnal drama in each Legionnaires life. Oh well. Rich, but not smooth.

It was a not bad, not great story... but satisfying enough, i suppose.

a better ending than D-Crime or Foundations, and a good enough note to end out the DnA era.

Chalk me up for the middle of the road crowd on this issue too.

Quick read, nice moments, lacking something overall.

Overalls!

I enjoyed this issue for all the same reasons seen here. Was hoping Monel was going to get more of spotlight this story arc. ohwell. Also hoping for Andromeda.

It was good action seeing the Legion cut loose. DnA did real good.

Jorge

OK...

I rather enjoyed this, DnA's final LEGION issue. That's 3 in a row I've liked, after a run of "blah-to-so-so" issues..

I wish FLOUDATIONS had been more like this story-- less-padded. Might have given DnA a couple issues to resolve their outstanding plotlines. Ah, well...

O yes, I must add that if Brande never says "By Damn!' again, it'll be too soon and I quite enjoyed Superboy singing the TEEN TITANS theme! Funny!

Let's all hope thar DnA's last year remains the worst year in recent memory.

I say it holds up extremely well vs. any Archie year/any year since Terra Mosaic. Let's hope the reboot rumors are untrue, and Waid builds upon existing continuitiy.