Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! UPDATE (12/20): Legion of Super-Heroes #1-- SOLICITATION! SPOILERS!

I don't know about others, but when I say that DC's mistake is trying to connect the Legion TOO TIGHTLY into DCU monthly continuity, I mean that there's a lot of room between now and 1000 years from now. LOTS can happen and do in frighteningly short time periods - changing the way people think about and act out their lives and histories. In my life, I've gone: from 8-tracks to CDs (not even at MP3 or DAT yet), from Big Wheel play tricycles to Monster Trucks, from 35-cent monthly comics to 3-dollar monthly comics, from Republican to Democrat, from American Midwest kid to global traveller (with the well-worn thoroughly stamped passport to prove it), from crazy party-boy to grad student, from learning how to use the phone to learning how to use the internet and computers, amongst many other changes. That's just me in 32 years; the Earth has gone through more in 100 and will go through uncountable others in 1000 more. Why limit the Legion to what the DCU is today?

Then DC should try to put out a book that sells in the current marketplace. Whether it's because of format (trades vs. monthlies, size, pricing, coloring, etc) or creators lacking name-recognition or crippling editorial policies or shrinking audiences, Legion hasn't ever recovered from the 90s comic sales crash. DC rushed a haphazard reboot 'solution' which never resulted in consistent sales growth.

I like DnA on lots of other books (and only occassionally on Legion), but I have to admit: their other books got cancelled too. They're great on mini-series - brilliant for the most part on those little contained pieces - but their series don't last in the American direct marketplace.

The Diamond list (which, granted, doesn't pick-up Trade Paperback or Manga sales) consistently includes as top-selling writers: Bendis, Millar, Morrison, Straczynski, Loeb, Jenkins, Ellis, Claremont, Rucka, Smith, a few others. If you want a book to go through tremendous growth, then make sure you hire people who have a shot in doing it. In Waid's favor, he & Weiringo have done a spectacular job of doubling Fantastic Four sales. If Legion could match that title, Waid & Kitson would have a hit by DC standards.

I guess the difference to me on whether it's a reboot or not is if they're leaving the door open to returning to the current continuity.

In my mind it's like this... Marvel cancells Daredevil but, a couple months down the line Ultimate Daredevil is scheduled to start up. Ultimate Daredevil is a new comic with no ties to the old continuity but it doesn't wipe out the old continuity, either, and a 616 Daredevil comic could happen.

They won't. They will never, EVER deboot, either to the ZH team, or to any version of the preboot. The most they'd do is reboot yet again to make it more like an earlier version...

The difference with your example (and that precise scenario has actually occured, albeit with Elektra rather than DD) is that tales are still being told in the MU, even if they didn't include "Daredevil." No stories will be being told in the ZH 31st Century.

"Reboot, preboot, deboot, DAS BOOT." Regardless of what happens with the LSH, we'll all be fans. Catch the LSH train guy.

Not all of us - I'm off for good. This & the mess they're making of GL means I'm no longer buying any DC Comics, nor am I likely to in the forseeable future.

Really, this is going a long way to souring me on comics completely...

How come Reboot can post things like this and no one has a go at him? Eh? But if I do it everyone feels they're within their rights to tell me to shut up!

Saying something negative or criticizing IS different than attacking your fellow posters.

NONE of us should attack the other. And if you're going to criticize assume that the person you're critiquing is reading it and have a little respect.

I'm deleting 4 of the above posts here. Pov's first post is gone because even if you disagree with someone's point of view you should never call them a name here. The others are responses to that so they are gone.

Let's all show some respect!

Nightcrawler:

I hope my comment wasn't taken as an attack on Reboot and I very much hope I didn't start anything nasty.

I just wanted to make the point that we all love the Legion and even if we don't like what's currently going on, that doesn't change the love.

Peace and love to all.

QL

what do you pick up, reboot? just curious since we share a lot of cynicism about comics in general, and much of the big 2's shenanigans in particular

That's a creative method of expressing your opinion, Somebody!

For all the excitement I feel regarding the new series, there's also sorrow and some pain that the old one has ended. I felt awful when I read here about Legion World being (possibly) destroyed - and find myself vainly wishing that somehow we could get a happy resolution for Shikari and the old team - some on-going elseworlds or alternate-dimension-Legion series.

Sorry, QL. The post that I'm referring to has been deleted. But, I'd like to keep my post here as a reminder.

Right now? Not much - just a couple of peripheral X-Books (Academy X & MadroX). Every time I get invested in something, it seems to get cancelled or changed beyond all recognition...

Cuz Reboot has always taken the Devil's advocate role here at Legionworld. I haven't taken offense to any of your posts, it's just your opinion.

I will certainly miss the postboot ZH Legion. It gave us some great characters like Gates, Kintiex and XS. However I am willing to give this new Legion a try too. Lets just see what happens in the first year. Maybe they are telling us somethings just to misdirect us. We just ahve to wait and see.

They won't. They will never, EVER deboot, either to the ZH team, or to any version of the preboot. The most they'd do is reboot yet again to make it more like an earlier version...

Seems likely that they would when the series reaches it's final issue if not a success.

Like for example.

(1) V4 isn't gone but lost in the timestream of hyperspace like v4 Brainiac 5 said would happen. The fading was probably them leaving Shikari's view.

(2) There was no indications that the timeline was altered, so Kid Flash's mom would be safe.

(3) Having Shikari enter this other universe shows that they put in a fail-safe, since she has the power to track down the v4 Legion in hypertime and lead them to their home universe, which may happen when the new series reaches it's final issue with help from v5 Brainiac 5 to get her into hypertime.

The new series based on an alterante timeline where things and people are diffrent seems interesting, but I see no longevity in it. It'll probably last for 12 to 22 issue and they'll probably go back to v4 because these reboots aren't acually working.

The Superman comics don't seem effected by Birthright, even by sales, good or bad, and the writers will probably stay away from stories that would show the origin, because it wasn't an acual success.

Right now the series is running on "hype", but with Waid prematurely overestimating the series success and doing a poor job at promoting it in the interviews that sadly make no sense, this version will probably go away for a while and come back as an elseworld limited series from time to time. Waid seems too focued on the "glory" of the heroes, instead of the "reason" of the heroes from the way he described it.

The people running DC may at first been excited by the series, but I think that some of that excitement got replaced by worry and probably had Waid and Kitson do some slight changes before it was too late. Like make v4 still exist and their Legion lost in hypertime, instead of erased, and have Shikari escape because of her tracking powers.

In other words, this unlimited series may end up being a limited series in a way, like Legion Lost, and things will probably soon go back to normal for v4 Legion after Shikari manages to enter hypertime again, find them thru her tracking power, and lead them home.

Cool. The fractured Legion symbol again. I like that a lot. Did you make that?
Coincidentally Somebody, you made it exactly the right size to make an avatar out of...do you mind if it gets added as an avatar selection?

They left it so open, Shikari could have made her way into Levitz Legion era, which was far more commercially successful than the 1994 Reboot.

I totally agree.
While I am a complete Legion geek - and needed to hear SOME reasoning behind the reboot - I should not be the primary target of EVERY interview Waid does (since his interviews are readily available online, it's not logical to think 'every interview is someone's first' like you hopefully consider a comic's monthly series). Waid - as the most high profile of the creators involved - should have different takes on the Legion ready for interviews to attract OTHER readers. Between his 'pull' and DC, he should be able to get on a wider range of popular fan sites (including those devoted to sci fi and fantasy), news sites and magazines to reach each possible reader market, rather than continue appeasing the 15,000 or so avid fans that stick with the Legion regardless (or even the additional 10,000+ readers DnA attracted to the book). To reach each possible market, you have to tailor your messages for them - what about the product will appeal to this particular group, what formats & venues will this product be available in, etc.

A successful marketing campaign should have various events/items rolled-out at key phases to maximize knowledge (and hopefully interest) in the product.

Um, did someone forget to make one of those for Legion?
Again?

Not at all. Here's a few that don't have bits of Dreamer's hair behind them

I've seen the idea that Shikari is a failsafe suggested before, and I don't think it holds water. Here's why:

DC doesn't NEED a failsafe to return the ZH Legion if it so chooses. All they have to do is go back and have Brainy figure out a solution. They can make up anything they like. They don't even need Brainy to do it - some Time Beacon could find them. It's comic book magic.

So since DC can pop back to THAT Legion any time they like, even without ANY involvement of Shikari, she's not a failsafe.

DC doesn't NEED a failsafe to return the ZH Legion if it so chooses. All they have to do is go back and have Brainy figure out a solution. They can make up anything they like. They don't even need Brainy to do it - some Time Beacon could find them. It's comic book magic.

The kind of magic that puts DC in the mess they're in. Brainy may have the brains, but that won't do him any good if he doesn't have the tools. They were forced into hypertime and he didn't have time to prepare. Shikari, with her tracking powers, were they're only hope to get back home and still is.

A good story is based on effort, to create a pattern that the readers can follow and not ask alot of questions about things that make no sense because the writer lacks focus. DC needs a level, a path, to bring back the v4, because the special reminded me of the final issue of the last LSH which led to Legion Lost. A story that was incomplete because it was going to another story which would end with things going back to normal.

The special didn't seem to have an acual ending for v4, if it did, then it was poorly written, and we really don't have the whole story on what v5 is suppose to be. Waid had been saying alot of things without thinking it seems, but he isn't the boss of DC. DC is probably planning for this to be like Legion Lost, but it's Shikari who's lost in an alternate timeline and must find a way back home.

This seems to be like a temporarly gimmick to attract readers who want to know how this will end and if v4 will be saved by Shikari, because of how the special was written. It had a "to be continued" kind of ending that involved v4 who still exist.

Again, DC could come up with dozens of ways to go back to the ZH Legion, without Shikari. So Shikari isn't a failsafe.

The only real failsafe is simply that the ZH Legion still exists at all.

You might not have liked the story - I wasn't thrilled with it myself - but even if DC wants to go back to the ZH Legion, they don't need Shikari to do it. She must serve some other purpose.

So since DC can pop back to THAT Legion any time they like, even without ANY involvement of Shikari, she's not a failsafe.

With all do respect, it "seems" most likely Shikari is a fail-safe because of her powers and why she was picked to escape while the other become lost in hypertime.

We could be wrong, but the theory is pretty sound.

This new v5 Legion is probably not meant to be an acual unlimited series. No matter what Waid says, if anyone can acually make sense of what he said, instead of saying they do because they want him to be right.

Sorry, but I need this here for future reference.

Nothing to apologize for Gary. I'd like to have it around for reference too.

I wonder why Sun Boy looks so great on that cover, but in the group shot he looks like a putz.