Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! UPDATE (12/20): Legion of Super-Heroes #1-- SOLICITATION! SPOILERS!

Good -

Return of Sun Boy, a real Shrinking Violet, and (fingers crossed) a non-repitle Projectra. Chance to forget the ridiculous and unneccesary events of the reboot (Sneckie, Jarth, Gim's death, Dark Crap Rising, etc.)

Bad -

I guess we have to wait even longer to see the belated (if at all) returns of Dawnstar, Wildfire, Blok, Mysa, etc.

Really Bad -

Where does that leave us with Gates, Kinetix, Laurel Gand, and other heroes that we've accepted into the Legion family? Of course I'm leaving Jenni out of this because I'm optimistically assuming that Waid will bring his own creation back. Dang, I miss her.

"Good" is only one of the requirements. Like I've said before, I like my serials serial. Taking a pair of scissors to the structure is going to turn me off. There are two ways to turn me right off a comic.

1) Hitting the rewind button, logical or not (example - Hal Jordan-as-GL).
2) Ripping everything up in a "Never be the same Again" for the sake of ripping it up all in one go (examples - Morrison's NXM, Avengers Disassembled).

Amazingly, this completely peversely manages to hit BOTH in one go, which I didn't think was possible. It's SO peverse, it's nearly admirable. Almost.

And I don't see any reason to support Waid's vanity project. Not my Legion = I'm not buying.

Wow Mr R - you're quite robust in your displeasure aren't you? To be honest I feel the same. You're right, the best way to describe this is as a Mark Waid vanity project and when he gets bored in a year to 18 months DC will have to do another reboot.

I only started reading the spoilers about the relaunch tonight and everything I've read so far - from the new/old names to tediously predictable (if you're 40 years old) line up has really depressed me.

Random remarks:

--There's just no pleasing some folks. As long as this is a well-written LSH, I'll certainly take it over no LSH at all. That said, this will only be the 2nd full reboot I've had to endure.

--And yeah, this is definitely a reboot by another name. What's good about it is that it really IS also a "reimagining" of the LSH concept with a 2000s view of a utopian future rather than the 1950s one.

--I am so deeply disappointed that so few correctly IDed Tasmia on the cover. Hello? That shade of blue is only her actual skin color, people. You guys got too used to Coipel's rendition.

--I really hope Waid isn't doing a Vril reDox (heh) take on Brainy.

--Strangely, I'm not at all sorry to see the 1994 version newbies gone. The prospect of a fresh start -- REALLY fresh, hopefully free of plans to retell classic LSH stories with a new twist ("let's reintroduce Ferro Lad, but make HIM the traitor! And then kill off Jo this time! We'll be geniuseses") makes it worth losing XS & co. in favor of maligned classics Gim, Jecka, Vi, Garth, and Jan (to name only the ones reappearing).

--

But what makes it the LSH? Like I said, had I been reading in 1989 or 1994, I would have dropped it like a stone and never gone back.

Boy! Some very negative fans in here! I don't really post often but this whole thing has really got me pumped. The fact is change is a fact of life. Like an earlier poster said (sorry, forgot who) Life is full of change..adapt or perish. Iv'e been reading this book since 1978 and like alot of you have witnessed new writers, new creative teams, the reboot, death's of beloved characters, the five year gap(one of the lowest points in Legion history in my opinion)etc... Also like many of you I love the basic core of this book and look forward to the changes coming. Even though I will not miss any of the post boot characters (can't think of even one) I understand the frustration of post boot fans/newbies losing all of that history. I will give DNA alot of credit, they really tried to fix things and were on the right track for the first few issues of the relaunch. We got back Brin, Drake, Nura was fixed, etc.. But we also lost Garth, and Jan. Legion Lost was a great story but most of the run was OK AT BEST. The real problem was the five year gap/reboot one time period. What did the Archie Legion give us?? We lost Dawnstar, Blok, Sunboy, Tyroc.. We got Kid Q, Montress/She hulk, a bizarre Element Lad, a dead Gim, a growing Violet with a green wisp of hair alla Poltergiest, a giant Earth snake from an alien planet with racoon's, a totally hard to follow. poorly written Kinetix, the list goes on and on. I think this Legion will take the Legion back to basic's to the time(60's, 70'2 and 80's) when this book was one of the top selling books at DC. Nothing has worked since the late 80's. We need to realize that a new approah is needed. Any Legion, in my opinion, is better than no Legion. I used that same attitude to get me through the five year gap and the archie Legion. Im sure everyone will have aspects of this new book that they will like or dislike. I think the powers at be looked at the whole Legion history and said what was the lineup that worked(sales) the best since 1958? Let's give Mr. Waid and Mr. Kitson our positive support. We are a loyal bunch but also very demanding! Let's stay positive!

Methinks the reboot fans are learning the anguish many preboot fans felt back in 1994. We survived then, we'll survive now.

Me, I'm happy. Projectra's back. Dirk's back. Gim's back. Jan's back. All is swell!

As far as I'm concerned the reboot had gotten so bad I wouldn't have minded if Gail had had a maniacal Trudy Trusoe bludgeon the whole team to death with her microphone at the end of her story. And that's coming from someone who only became a fan of the Legion after the reboot!

I am more than happy with what I'm hearing about the new team.

Yayyy! Jan!

BARRY!!!

I just read on the DCMB that its you who's holding up the re-introduction of Bouncing Boy! Apparently Mark wants him in and you don't! What can I do to make you change your mind?!?

Bouncing Boy is a fantastic character - not only is he visually probably the most original character EVER but his power is super-cool and FUN, his personality is charming and endearing and by being slightly larger in the stomach than most other heroes he lends a touch of diversity and realism to this series that most other comics don't have. Not only that but if you look at the many Legion Survivor games that have taken place on this board you'll see that Chuck, as one of the more popular members, always finishes near the top! The fans want him back!

Let's face it - Bouncing Boy is one of the most original and easily recognisable members of this team and needs to be a permanent member ASAP! Please listen to Mark and consider bringing him back.

(Someone needs to start a thread where we can all clamour for Bouncing Boy's return!)

I TOO WANT BOUNCING BOY!

I THREE!

I will buy this issue, with my hand on my heart, and if Waid breaks it it's going to be the end of a long relationship. Whatever you think about the reboot, I've gotten to know those characters. And to just leave them dangling with no resolution is...just crap.

That is exactly what I've been thinking. For my part, I'm really excited about the new series. Waid has said that he wants to get back to character based storytelling, which will be a very refreshing change after DnA's plot-hammer style. And just because the initial line-up doesn't seem to include any post-booters doesn't mean that we won't see them. I feel confident that Waid will pick up some of these characters and finally give them the well rounded personalities they've desperately needed for ten years.

When the last reboot happened, I stopped reading the Legion for about four years. It took me that long to realize what some here have already said: any Legion is better than no Legion. I stopped reading because the Legionnaires in the reboot stories were not my Legionnaires. They still aren't. That may be part of why I'm more willing to see them go. Moreover, I think that Waid has matured enough as a writer in the last ten years that we don't have anything to worry about.

I'm looking forward to reading these new adventures. I think they're gonna be fresh, new, and exciting.

And if they're not, I'll stop reading for another four years.

Now you can tell us what you REALLY think of WaK's LSH!


Waid & Kitson Poll

Let's not form up into armed camps, just yet.

This really has me curious about the upcoming TITANS/LEGION special. If that *will be* this continuity's final hurrah, I hope there's some measure of closure. No way all the loose ends'll be tied up, but I hope *everything's* not left hanging...

...preboot did get that nicely done send off before the ZERO HOUR zero issues.

I'm not so sure that what Waid means by reboot is the same as the reboot of '94. I think the creators are going to enjoy keeping us on tenterhooks for the next three months (c'mon, you have to admit Legion fans are easy to bait...)

The fact that they've told us the identities of 13 (or so) of the supposed 18 opening characters makes me a little suspicious...

Todd

Yes, I am four for Bouncing Boy coming back.

I started reading the Legion in the Adventure era in the 60's. I took time off in the late 70's and 80's and came back in the early 90's. At that time, I caught up on what I had missed. Generally, I've taken the various incarnations of the Legion in stride and learned to love each one (although the Giffen era still troubles me). Nevertheless, I still missed my original silver age legion. So I for one am pleased to see the old names back and some of the original legionaires returning. I don't for a minute delude myself that I'm getting my old legion back, but that's ok. I'm excited about the changes and really looking forward to picking up that first issue in December.

I hope that those of you who are disappointed right now for whatever reason, will give it a chance. After all, life is about change. You've got nothing to lose except a couple of bucks or pounds.

Please no Bouncing Boy or other old silly stuff. I mean we can use Chuck Taine in a supporting role without him turning into a big ball.

CMN3 Vee

Thanks for pointing out the color wash thing. I was kinda getting depressed with all of the "Star boy is BLACK? WHOA! AVANT GARDE!" stuff. It's funny, everybody poops a brick because there aren't enough aliens on the cover but then Star Boy...

But still...
No Timber Wolf? Hey, how about bringing him in as 'The Lone Wolf Kid' or 'Wolf Boy' or 'Timber Lad', eh?
C'MON! He's the PROTO-WOLVERINE for grife sakes!
He's my favorite damn Legionnaire!!
He Doesn't HAVE to be all furry, you know! Use the old school version!
WAWAWAAAAAAAAH!

what's wrong with that? Chuck always had a silly power, but as the Legion writing matured and he outgrew the inbuilt joke of his name he became a really well rounded character

ah... sorry.

Anyway, it's always infuriated me in the last few years that the current book considers him too silly to include in the team, but created a 'bouncing boy' spaceship.

Go Chuck!

Well I'm too professional to deny or confess over Mark's charge about Bouncing Boy ... but if he keeps this up I'll start saying he's keeping other characters out that I want in!

Well I guess the cat's amongst the pigeons - this was always going to be a case where some people would take against anything new - totally understandable - I actually very pleasantly surprised how many folks are looking forward to the new look. It will be scary for a while - but all change is.

I do resent being accused of 'leaving Empire in the lurch' DC only ever agreed to print the first volume - after which they asked us to work on Legion. We still own Empire and we will return to it when we can - but there was no way we were going to turn down this opportunity...or be able force DC to publish more Empire when they weren't ready to yet!

The point about the future in our setting is that it's 'Utopia' for some folks, but not for everyone in the universe - the Legion is against the 'we're okay, everyone else can go hang' attitude.

The approach we've taken is to try and make the new Legion something that readers with no prior LSH history will find accessible and enjoyable - but that folks like yourselves with a good LSH background will be able to have an extra perspective on (and hopefully an extra level of enjoyment from). It will be different for all us long time Legion readers - but different is what the Legion always has been amongst comics as far as I'm concerned- hopefully reading it will be a little as it was for me when I first encountered Legion - a unique book that could take me on journeys no other comic could!

Well, I've obviously said enough to get more verbal (actually are posts regarded as verbal?) slings and arrows coming my way - along with the much appreciated encouragement which I truly am grateful for - so I'm off back to the drawing board!

I'll start lobbying Mark to tell the truth about Bouncing Boy....

Talk to you soon!

I love that Barry Kitson has enough chutzpah to venture into our forum. Admittedly, as a whole, we are a nice community with only the occasional foot-in-mouth poster, but still.

Has Mark Waid posted on LW yet? I hope he does.

I echo Vig Lad's opinions that any Legion is better than no Legion. Actually, the more threads I come across tonight, the less reticent I am about this reboot. I've survived reboots and retcons before, I (re)imagine I'll survive this one too!

I'll second your appraisal of Kitson's bravery -- it's awful swell of him to come here when we're all aflutter with nothing but a possible cover image and a lot of conjecture. It's always encouraging to see that the creatives really believe what they're doing and have a passion for it. Even if it weren't the Legion, that will usually get me to check out the first few issues of a book.

Thanks Guys!

I will admit it's a bit scary seeing there's a poll on our work before anyone's even seen it!

Seriously though, it is a pleasure to be here - we're all Legion fans - so as long as we can agree to disagree in a civilized manner on some things I'm more than happy to 'fight my corner'

Thanks again for the encouragement and the welcome!

Don't worry about that Barry! Around here you should always assume that things are in jest until you have absolute proof to the contrary. We love our Legion but we also love to have frolicsome good times. You could say we're the Saturday Night Live of comicdom!

Its when we're not doing polls or suggesting that something would be better with "...of Space" behind it that you need to start worrying.

Having said the above, I should also point out that you'll find the most knowledgeable, loyal Legion fans by far,right here on LegionWorld. If you want to know anything at all about the Legion, just ask. You'll quickly get an accurate answer (with references!) from numerous posters.


Edited to add the following: BTW Barry, thought I should point out that most of us are using temporary IDs to honor the Legion Titans crossover. For example, I'm normally Varalent (nicknamed Vee) on this and other boards. As soon as the crossover is finished we'll be reverting. I'll try to always sign my name in these posts so that when the "REBOOT" occurs, you won't be TOO confused!

Vee