Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Official LSH 3 Worlds Thread #5 out (FINALLY!! - spoilers)

Remember the quoted statement from Dan Didio that after LO3W there'd be one Legion? It would seem that that statement is flat out wrong.

Or does it?

Do the characters now think of themselves as part of a group that transcends a 'singular' reality?

Those three sets of fists, all bearing flight rings, raised while beings from different realities shout 'Long Live the Legion'... the heroes from countless other unattributed realites... do they now consider themselves part of one Legion?

I think they might.

Not that that would really be born out in a practical storytelling way for a consistent length of time. Maybe Morrison's MULTIVERSITY, as some have suggested, will feature the New Wanderers and glimpses of the other-than-three Legions (like 5YL, Douglas Nolan's LSH- I wondered if one of the Ferro Lad's that appeared might have been him, etc. and etc.)

The quote about 'all three' LSHs appearing in future issues of ADVENTURE would seem to set the tone for how we'll be experiencing the LSH for the near future.

I'm more curious and excited about that than I would be about the prospect of reading about one preferred version. Yet I share concern about a lack of focused storytelling translating in lackluster sales. If only for the prospect of the team's continued adventures.

Personally, I've always been fine with the LSH's status as a niche book.

Eight pages ain't enough-- that might be the one thing LSH fans of all persuasion could agree upon.

Some thoughts on LO3W #5 itself--

-- Superboy Prime and Superman Prime/this year's Time Trapper prime-punched each other into a reality hiccup! I barked a syllable or two of laughter when I read that.

-- Black Witch's transformation was completely surprising! Yet it reminded me of Mysa's merge with Amethyst in the 5YL stories. Which made me wonder if you could consider her now merged with Zoe, in a way. And Mordru, I guess.

I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of Kinetix...

Mysa's new guise and the dark trappings on Sorcerer's World (what *is* up with Alan Scott and friends trapped in the walls?) look to be fodder for upcoming story. Great, but I gotta confess that as dramatic and visceral as her new look is, I already miss her old one. And her 'white' persona.

Poor Blok.

-- Have you seen the movie THE SEVENTH SEAL? It's the one about Death following around several people during the Plague years of the Dark Age. At the end, Death, garbed in a flowing black robe, leads a procession of people who are all holding each other's hands in a winding line.

I think of that image every time I think of the Earth 247 characters floating through the white, again hand in hand.

Their new stated purpose is certainly interesting- but no spaceship? Or traveling HQ? Hardly seems humane...

-- I wonder what living with the custody of Superboy Prime will do to the Prime Legion? It would've made sense to me if one of the Johns Legionnaires decided to 'cross over' with them, just to keep an eye on things.

-- Gates and XS sort of doing just that. I wish Lyle'd joined them!

-- Bouncing Boy and Duplicate Damsel developments were fun. I kind of like the name. It's a merger of Luornu's previous names, in a way. I didn't even think of Ord, till Kid Quislet mentioned him. That does dampen my liking of it. Myriad's a good substitute.

It was a joy to see Luornu expressing joy for once.

--George Perez's art was amazing. I agree that I'd like to see him work on a somewhat more limited cast on a title somewhere. One where he can fully illustrate characters interacting and growing and changing and feeling. He's really good at that, in addition to being the master of detail and crowd scenes.

-- I really wish we'd seen lots more interactions between different characters from across the board. Teammates, alternates, alternate teammates, even the villains all could've used a good number of scenes of dialogue and humor and pathos. That would've made the series 12 issues, though, and we'd be waiting into the next decade.

-- Teen Titans... remember they *are* honorary (or something) Legionnaires, too.

-- With Mordru and Time Trapper out of the picture (at least for a while), the LSH(s) need some new non-teamed villains. Villains that have 'joined' up with a lasting team need to be utilized, too-- but I think singular threats with identiable personality are the order of the day for the future LSH stories. I get the feeling Earth Man and co. might be reappearing before a more orderly LSV or even the Fatal Five.

-- Though I was disappointed that the eight missing Legionnaires didn't arrive, the fact that they're being searched for means that they'll likely get more panel-time than could have been possible in the super-crowded LO3W.

I wonder if they're together?

-- There wasn't an ending chapter of Legion storytelling, as I thought there might be with the conclusion of LO3W. Instead, there's lots of story kernels lying around on the ground just waiting for some sunlight, water and fertilizer to sprout into new Legion tales.

I look forward to their harvest.

How long has the reboot Legion been floating around in the white void? Months? What do they eat? And now they're choosing as a monolithic group to go back there? Yeah, right.

Better stop by the snack machine and use the space-potty on your way out, team. We aren't stopping at every rest stop and Burger King along the way.

Nightcrawler:

He was never revealed as anything. His only appearance was during the LSH-LSV war that ended in Karate Kid's death, the only noticeable thing he did during that war was detonate a bomb that trapped a Legion cruiser on an asteroid. The Legionnaires addressed him by name as if they knew him from previous encounters, but no such encounter was ever published. He never even got so much as an entry in Who's Who in the Legion, the book which gave names and histories to such well-known Legion personalities as Rainbow Girl and Polecat.

Actually, I misremembered. The name I used was Miss Infinity, I think. There's a thread on here somewhere.

My idea was based on Carggittes having been genetically modified to reproduce asexually in the early days of interstellar space travel, or some such thing, so I reasoned that each of Lu's triplicate also could split into three, and so on.

You know, although Levitz' long-ago explanation for the boy/girl thing has been much-maligned, I think there is something to it.

It was not so long ago that people were condidered adults at 14, 15, or at least raising families and entering the workforce at that age.

Now, young adults aren't really expected to BE adults until their mid-20s.

It stands to reaason that, 1,000 years from now, as medical understanding and technology advances, humans may approach a lifespan on par with Coluans.

Thus, it would not be uncommon for someone in their early- to mid-20s to be a MAN in 2009 and a BOY in 3009.

You thoughts?

Maybe they'll meet the original Challengers of teh Unknown at some point. Weren't they shunted into the multiverse on a similar mission some years ago?

Good point, Superboy. Geoff really gave fans of all those Legions something to be happen about.

And you're 100 percent right about Giffen's Legion. That Legion was fascinating reading -- to be sure -- but it was so far removed from what the Legion used to be about -- that eventually hardcore fans grew weary of the series. Had it been an Elseworlds/Ultimates kinda thing -- it would have been more palatable.

I think when DC recognized that people wanted the classic Legion, they should have just did what Johns did now. Show that Giffen's story were from a different reality -- and just go back to telling good stories about the classic Legion.

Are we talking 'selling used garments' opportunity or 'bawdy nightclub act' opportunity?

I still don't have the actual comic, and may not even be able to get it this weekend, but I'm excited to hear that SPrime meets a twilight zoneish fate at the end. I'm also excited to hear that the last half of the issue sets up future stories. You have to view that as encouraging.

So here's something I thought I would NEVER write: the Gary Frank designs for the Legionnaires are actually growing on me. Part of it is Johns's scripting of the founders and Brainy. His Lightning Lad may be my new favorite of that character (whom I always like for sentimental reasons more than his actual characterization). And the odd sleeveless costume and the long hair seems to fit the Johns Garth. Same for the other founders. And Johns's Brainiac 5 actually balances out his tendency toward arrogant prickishness, and I appreciate that. Wildfire's suit is about the coolest ever (and the original set new standards when it appeared). And the Dawnstar costume, in the hands of whichever artist did the variant cover, looks sublime. In a book with crowded images of different variations of Legionnaires, I'm finding the Frank designs make those Legionnaires really stand out as distinctive characters. Overall, the costumes which I had derided as overblown 80s nostalgia before, in Perez's hands gives them a more forward-looking bent than the nostalgic costume variations on the other versions. My apologies to Gary Frank. And I imagine now that the costumes will be completely different in Adventure Comics.

I also have to compliment Johns for not slaughtering 2 out 3 Legions in this tale. That, as much as anything, should help over time heal some of the divisions created by the multiple reboots. And it was unexpected. Bravo.

I think Myriad is a beautiful name... but it's too reboot Legion to be appropriate.

How about just simplifying Duplicate Damsel to Dupe Damsel?

Um guys, I have a question concerning Dawny and Drake. Now, from what I understand from the Hero Histories, didn't Dawny pretty much ruin her budding relationship with Drake because of her old boyfried? And even though Drake seemed "okay" with it I got the vibe he still wanted her. So why does it seem weird if Drake wanted to rekindle it. To me, it would seem weird if it was the reverse. Please xcuse me if I've gotten any facts wrong I'm just making an educated guess based on the Hero Histories since I haven't read the story myself.

I want a New Wanderers mini-series/on-going post-haste!!!

I want a Black Witch mini-series/on-going post-haste!!!

I think I liked Legion Lass of all the suggested names for Duplicate Damsel upthread.

Dupe Damsel makes me think that they will have to add a Sub named Dope Damsel...

Legion Lass was my suggestion, but it was intended as a joke.


A damsel is a young unmarried woman or girl. Since Luornu's long married maybe she should be Duplicate Dame?

or this - Madame Myriad. eheh.

I haven't heard that idea of Levitz's before but it's one I can get behind. It does make a lot of sense to me.

I don't mind Thom being known as StarMAN in the JSA (since that name has history with that team) and Star BOY in the Legion (for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post) but my worry is that the longer he goes by StarMAN, the more writers and readers will come to identify him as such - and so by the time he makes his inevitable return to the Legion's book, those same writers and readers will be unwilling to see him make what they probably consider a regression of character by changing his name back to Star BOY.

Or else they'll just think the name-switch will be too confusing and not bother with it (which is I suspect one of the reasons Geoff didn't use it here in Lo3W).

And then we'll end up with a team of Boys and Girls and Kids and Lads and Lasses and a Man and spot the odd one out there.

It's funny how that changed. Last year IIRC, he talked abouthow much he did like the Legion and how he was looking forward to writing them. Ah well, screwed again.

Actually it was that Dawny fell for a guy on a lost earth colony. It wasn't an old boyfriend. She was mooning over him for a time but eventually got it thru her system. Later on during when the legion baxter series was winding down she tried to get it on with Drake but his body burned her badly (not too badly but enough that it would have made a physical relationship *read sex* impossible. So she said something to the effect of finding either finding a mate the way people on earth do or the ways of her people in frustration...i think she said something else with this but i dont recall off hand what it was... but it was during when they were trying to find the emerald empress.

Since DC is going with a mid to late 20's Legion it's rather ridiculous to keep their names child like, I don't care how you want to rationalize it.

The discrepancy is off putting to the very audience DC should be targeting.
(It's off putting to EVERY age group, probably.)

I think that when the Legion gets back together offically with the UP, they should adopt adult or neutral based code names just like they did in 5YL.

That way the lads and girls names can stay with the 'kids' who are now Legion Prime.
The distinction would further separate the Legions.

Perhaps we should make a thread just to run by the possibilities!?

The problem with that though is that (at a time when DC is trying to return the majority of its properties to their most 'iconic', recognisable status) 'Ultra Boy' and 'Cosmic Boy' are a lot more well-known than 'Emerald Dagon' and 'Polestar'.

And new readers (or returning older readers) are probably more likely to pick up a book starring a 'Saturn Girl' or a 'Lightning Lad' that they might've seen on the JLU cartoon or Smallville than they are two characters they've never heard of before.

The other problem with changing names, especially at this stage when nearly every member has had at least 2 or 3 different names already anyway, is that no reader is going to be 100% happy with all the new names that are chosen. And in fact most are probably going to be 100% against it since the traditional names are the ones that most fans have come to know and expect in relation to this version of these characters. (I bet if we were to conduct a poll on which name readers would rather see Rokk known as out of Polestar, Cosmic Man or Cosmic Boy the latter would win by a comfortable margin.) And the fracturing of fans into who liked which version of whichever character better is a further division that Legion fandom definitely does not need.

You make good points, but I don't remember having any difficulty picking up X-Men when they changed from the original team to the new team (and they've done it since numerous times) and it didn't make my mind go into overdrive when Marvel Girl changed to Phonix or the Invisible Girl became the Invisible Woman.

Name two important comic characters today who aren't children but who go by childlike names.
(The younger Titians and Supergirl fall in the under 21 group, Conner's still in high school, for goodness sake.}

A poll here wouldn't make any differenc because most of us buy the book already and we're NOT enough to keep the Legion alive.

And we're getting THIS version, whether we like it or not.

I don't think that changing names helped or hindered before and I don't think that keeping them will help now, really.

I might call people under 50 'kids' but I don't ever call them boys.
(Yes, an occasional, "You go girl!" but even that's a little out dated.)

Boy, girl - just chalk it up to 31st century jargon. Who knows how language could be used in the future? Personally, I prefer the single names we had in the reboot, like Spark and Livewire .

And maybe rename Dawnstar "Pathstar"....

As a big fan of the reboot (that's in fact when I became a Legion fan) I also have no problem with snazzier, more modern names in general.

The problem for the preboot team though is that most of the good alternate names have now been taken by the reboot characters and if one of the reasons that we/you(Candle) want to change the names is to differentiate the preboot from the threeboot characters then it would be counter-productive to give them the same names as the reboot characters.

But if we don't use any of the reboot names... then what are we left with? Are there any good names left that we could call these characters? And if not, why bother making the change?

Anyway, I think it's my fault we're getting so off-topic with this name discussion so getting back to Lo3W #5 for a second - one of the things I forgot to bemoan in my original post was that it does indeed still seem like the reboot's entire universe and all of its characters and worlds and concepts are gone... and that SUCKS!

/putting on my optimistic hat/ Unless the new 'Wanderers' find it all again of course.