Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Official LSH 3 Worlds Thread #5 out (FINALLY!! - spoilers)

All-Star is dead, but Johns said all Legions will be eventually appearing on Adventure Comics. I don't know how so, with 12 issues and 8 pages but...

To quote Kid Quantom and Shikari from LO#W #5

KQ: We're heading past the white void into the multiverse.

Shikari: To look for other survivors from other long dead parallel worlds.

Hence the name Wanderers. As for the specifics...I don't really know, I just know that by mentioning the multiverse they set them up to be able to appear in any continuity...


Who is to say they were all replaced?

See, their Earth, Earth 247 was destroyed after IC and so were others. After the rebirth of the multiverse. Universes have been destroyed since IC. Then again...it very well could be survivors from Pre Crisis, it's basically whatever they want.


Not at all, she crossed over into the Earth Prime continuity when she was thrown forward into the future.

Since their Superman, Superboy Prime, is still in his Superboy phase, probably years in Prime's future. Then again, he might not have a Supergirl...if he does...maybe she'll be insane also.


No, she's the Supergirl that was in the 3boot and appears monthly in the Supergirl title. She is of the main Universe, she is it's Supergirl.

But that doesn't mean there was no Earth 1 Kara, there might be actually an Earth 1 who knows...maybe that Kara came back from the dead. It's even possible she crossed worlds to be a member of this Legion...just like the current Supergirl did to get to the 3boot. Probably unlikely though.


As far as we know there's nothing for him to move on from...there's nothing there. No Laurel Gand, no Supergirl.

Since it's pretty obvious Johns wants the old Legionnaires from this Legion to strongly resemble their Pre-Crisis counter parts...that's a huge divergence...there being absolutely no one there like that in his past.


If they don't want to use Supergirl I can understand that but that doesn't explain why they didn't bring Laurel in.

It's not the most important thing really, but it is important to this Brainiac 5.

How about Multiplicity? Still kind of long.

Multiplex? Sounds like a condo...

How about Domino? It's phonetically similar to Damsel, and her duplicating a bunch of bodies in a row would be kind of a domino effect. I think I like it.

Wow. I thought the series was executed as well as you could hope a project like this could be. The artwork by George Perez and Scott Koblish was top notch. Geoff Johns crafted a story with a kazillion characters (for all us Legion nuts who demanded it!) that still had a plot and plenty of action. It's disappointing that the reviews here on Legion World have been mixed at best. It's got to be discouraging and frustrating to DC that no matter what they produce Legion-wise, it doesn't seem to grab a large contingent.

lack of consensus = lack of sales = lack of continuing Legion title

I personally think that as a group here there are too many diverse opinions of what the Legion should be. DC created a monster with all its multiverse/reboot experiments, and inadvertently created a multiverse fanbase it has little chance of appeasing on a continual basis.

My suggestion is for TPTB to move forward with the Geoff Johns Legion, link them to strong characters like Superman and Supergirl, forget all the previous multiverse crisis crap, and get on with telling stories about a super team of the 31st century. No more reboots. No more reference to Earth XYZ alternates. No more watering down or retconning the Legion foundation built from 1958 to 1993. Solid, consistent characters and stories, with the Super Family help, is the only way the Legion will attract enough readers (including new ones) to justify a continuing title of their own.

Unfortunately, I see Adventure as at best just a testing grounds of Legion characters for a not-so-near future reboot; at worst just a way for DC to keep their character trademarks alive.

Lotta Lass
Gazillion

If she splits into a thousand, strips, then recombines, wouldn't the cloths remain? Seems like a potential business opportinity there.

re: Duplicate Damsel

I don't care for it much because it sounds too much like Duplicate Boy's codename.

How about -

1) Myriad (instead of Triad)
2) Nth Damsel
3) the Dupinator

I pretty much agree with everything you said in the first part except that I think the final issue probably should have been more pages to set up the status quo better.


One thing you absolutely nailed though, there is no pleasing the Legion fan base as a whole, whatever he does one segment is not going to like. I am sure he knows that.


All things considered...he managed to give the Reboot and 3Boot a purpose even if they aren't likely to get their own title again soon(at least not being called the Legion in the case of the Reboot).

No one got the Legion they wanted out of this...we got a compromise with Johns attempting to incorporate what worked from various Legions into a single one...and he did it without a godawful merging scene.

I hear the 5YG fans not too happy with this...but it's obvious to me that the 5YG era would lie ahead in the timeline of the current Johns Legion. Kono could be in their future ditto Kent Shakespeare...


I don't think it's merely a case of the Legion being given backup status...

L03W was definitely a sales win and every appearance of this Legion todate has justified a monthly title, at least with Johns writing it.

There's only one thing that makes sense about why they haven't given them one...


...Geoff Johns wants to do it and there is too much on his plate right now what with writing the Superman Origin, about 7 different teams in Green Lantern not to mention the latest DC maxi Blackest Night, and relaunching the Flash....all t hat in addition to just finishing up a book with 3+ Legions in it.

Plus there are the legal issues with Superman...but one thing is for sure, all of a sudden DC isn't shy about showing the Kal-El Superboy with the Legion in new work...even though they have to pay the Siegels every time they do it. They have to be sure of a settlement forthcoming or they wouldn't be tying Superboy /man into this relaunch.


I think Johns definitely has an interest in the Legion. He's said he likes writing Starboy and Sunboy, and he's got all those Legionnaires stuck in the 21st century.

Johns like to set stuff up for a while...I don't see why the Legion would be any different.


And another reason they might not be going right into their own title is that after going without a Legion title for a while a relaunch will be a bigger deal.


I remain optimistic and pretty much satisfied, except for the fact that I don't really want to read Titans or Kon-El stories.

He was never revealed as such in any Legion story I've read. (And I've read them all barring any odd cameo I may have missed.)

Kinetix's original look and as Matthew says Captain Comet (in his later L.E.G.I.O.N. costume).

Not Cosmic Boy, but a mis-colored Echo (Adventure-Era villain turned 5-Year Gap Legionnaire - should be blue w/white mask and not purple w/flesh colored face).

L3W was not so much a hit, at least if you compare to how much more Johns gets on things like GL or Flash (at least 50% more). Moreover, in his own panel, there wasn't a single question about L3W or anything like that. He also doesn't seem genuinely excited about writing the Legion.
Its lateness also seemed to prove that what he really wanted was to set up his Flash Family business and reintroduce Conner. Legion was a casualty.
The only good outcome is that Johns managed to find a way to accomodate anything we throw at Legionlore. Even Super Pets. But that's it. The franchise is not a bit better than before, and, again, we had to deal with Justin Thyme.

Well, Superboy, your encouraging post has cheered me up immensely and made my day. I certainly hope you're right!

PS - Am I the only one glad to see Atmos again?

I listed the reasons I was ultimately disappointed with the series (I really had high expectations for the final issue -- but they weren't met).

That said, the Legion parts of the story were strong. I like the rescue of Mysa, the return of Sun Boy I and Mysa finally kicking Mordru's ass (at a high price).

I do recognize that a lot of people followed this series -- just for the stuff that seemed to crowd out the Legion -- Superboy, Bart, Sodom, Superboy Prime. But with 3 Legions and not much room to explore them, I doubt that this series made any new Legion fans.

I would like to see Johns do a proper Legion story -- but a backup in Superboy/Adventure isn't quite what I had in mind.

Fair enough, it's not a hit if you put up against one of DC's top 4 or 5 titles...just when compared to all their other titles.

It's consistently sold over 50k copies not just LO3W but going back to the Action and LS. And those were not typical Action numbers, even with Johns at the helm.

Not everything Johns writes sells at the top btw, Booster Gold didn't.

This team has been in the top 30 of all comics since Johns debuted it going back nearly 3 years now...that smashes anything done with the Legion in decades.

And given DC's decline in market position, it most certainly is a success by their standards, a top 30 book.

They'd like to have 30 of those.





The man has a lot on his plate right now.


And that's another thing when comparing this Legion to GL...this Legion has had stiffer competition than the GL relaunch did.

If they launched the title right now during blackest night, it would get lost in the shuffle.

I don't really agree with that either, he could have introduced them however he wanted. Without writing 300 hundred other characters at the same time.

And I imagine the Tians connections were done more to help the Legion than the Titans.

POV, it's selling better, the continuity is straightened out and the various Legions have their places.

I realize the 5YG hasn't been touched on but since even Giffen said he was going to kill half of two Legions and make the old Legion clones and call them the Omega Men...I don't really know how much you are expecting, even from Giffen. Those were his words about the old 5YG Legionnaires being the clones. That's a tough obstacle to ever being regular Legion again, especially with it's Earth and Moon blown up. I mean Giffen is part of that problem for you. Still..Johns fit them into the continuity.

And the sales on this have smashed the 3boot, and the 3boot was heavily criticized by the fans.


Bottom line is that Johns didn't conduct a mass slaughter of Legionnaires, he didn't erase the other Legions....and he gave them all their place. In particular the 3 most recent distinct versions.

Kid Quislet, just so you know, I liked seeing Atmos again, too. But not as much as Gates now being a part of the surviving Legion. He may not fit in with the current characters, but isn't that who Gates has always been? Let's hope he doesn't become too "team spirit."

Yikes! I feel like crouching in a ball on the floor of my shower, hugging myself and singing Kumbaya after reading some of the negative comments in this thread re: this issue.

I really don't get what most of the complaints are about either. I for one thought this was a really solid final chapter to this tale (and as one who has been seriously disappointed in Geoff Johns' ability to properly finish a story in the past that was a very welcome surprise).

Great things about this issue...

* The Time Trapper revelation - what a fantastic explanation for all the different identities we've seen him/her have over the years (and kudos to whoever it was in this thread a few pages ago that first suggested it).
* The Black Witch - shades of 'Dark Willow' from Buffy but still a fun turn-of-events that will hopefully foster some good stories.
* Bouncing Boy and Duplicate Damsel make their long-awaited return!
* Leviathan and the Colossal Boys get a panel punching out Prime!
* Three-boot Brainiac 5's "What an idiot." line while Superboy-Prime destroyed himself actually had me chuckle out loud.
* And Prime's subsequent fade to pencils was an excellent touch.
* The appropriate level of fear/apprehension/excitement as I read this issue that some of my fave Legionnaires (most especially Blok) might not make it out alive...
* And the corresponding relief when he (and the others) did in fact turn out OK (albeit with injuries).
* I love that the "Missing Legionnaires" are still out there. The hunt for them could easily make for some great stories with a decent writer at the helm and I hope to see an exciting range of reasons as to why they've been missing so long.
* Karate Kid III (and other new developments) - though this character wasn't love-at-first-sight for me I do appreciate that Geoff Johns has been constantly bringing new characters, ideas and concepts to the table with this version of the Legion and that, despite this being a retro-boot to an earlier version of the team, there is still a real sense of forward movement in the story-telling and world of this Legion.
* Lots seem to hate it but I *loved* Superboy-Prime's final fate as annoying internet troll at the DC Boards! Man, do I feel like I've interacted with him a few times! And though I'm no huge fan of the concept of Earth-Prime, this was definitely the best use of it I've ever read.

Of course, no comic is perfect so there were a few let-downs of note too...

* Dawnstar and Wildfire need to never interact with each other EVER AGAIN! This couple's dynamic is STALE! (And while we're handing out restraining orders, the word "path" wants one filed against Dawny ASAP too!)
* Bouncing Boy and Duplicate Damsel's re-introduction was way too quick and low-key. They deserved a lot more than 4 small panels.
* The spelling mistakes of "Mygg" and "Shakari" were annoying...
* But not as annoying as Thom's continual reference to as "Starman". Ugh! I hate that! To the JSA he can be called that, but to the Legion he should always be known as "STAR BOY"! Otherwise it just sounds stupid to me that a whole bunch of Kids, Lads, Boys, Girls and Lasses would have one Man amongst them, even though they're all around the same age.
* The various Legion villains (except maybe Mordru) were given rather short-shrift unfortunately.

But really, those complaints were minor compared to what it was I enjoyed about this issue - and what could've been much worse developments if some of those dire predictions that certain posters had made about this book earlier in the series had come true.

* Were the three Legions amalgamated into one unholy version in the end? Thank God, no!
* Was there a massacre of Legion members and associates? No, there wasn't. (Though I still miss Kinetix - the old one anyway.)
* Would Superboy-Prime actually be redeemed? No, of course he wouldn't.
* Did Sodam Yat and the Green Lantern Corps overshadow the Legion and steal their spot-light? No, they really didn't.

In the end, we got what I always thought we'd get - a fun, action-packed adventure story with real stakes and excitement that juggled a multitude of characters more or less successfully and left the Legion characters and their world in a stronger, more interesting place at the end than they were at the beginning.

It's a shame that we're only going to be reading about that world in 8 pages a month for the next however-long but I hardly think that has anything to do with this book, or what Geoff Johns has done with the Legion.

Oh wow, I just noticed Laurel Kent in her Super-Poncho in that splash scene! That's the coolest thing. Not enough super-heroes wear ponchos!

I think this is a wonderful suggestion!

I think the problem with 'Domino' is that Marvel has a female character named that (or something very similar.)

I was thinking 'Maddox' because, maybe, Brainy is the one who increased her power, but Marvel's taken that one, too.

I AM excited about a New Wanderers series using my favorite version of the Legion, however they travel and where ever they put people.

I can see them with a traveling space headquarters, like the one seen ages ago in one of the Legion Annuals, I think.

I hope that Mysa sheds just the Mordru power at some point, leaving him dead, of course.
Then, she could add the Amethyst powers and character to her abilities and become a much happier person and a greater heroine.

But I have to admit, the Black Witch is a very visually and conceptually interesting character.

Haven't read it yet but I really like the idea of the reboot Legion becoming the Wanderers. Now if only we could get a miniseries or something... maybe they'll get some attention from Morrison's Multiversity. (Although we are cautioned to watch what we pray for...!)

DiDio said that we'll see all the Legions eventually in Adventure, so maybe they'll appear there.

Also glad to hear that there was no big massacre!

What he said (to quote Sun Boy)

I thought about Morrison writing the Reboot as well...it definitely seems like they were set up. And we know he's definitely going to be writing something about the multiverse.


The Wanderers even sounds like something Morrison would want to write, a name he would pick. Doug Moench had kind of a horror/weirdness type background and he also took that name. And they are totally creatively unbound characters now so I can see why that would appeal to many writers, especially one like Morrison.

I admit I figured the Reboot was the Legion least likely to survive this series. Instead they came out of it very much revitalized in a way.

And I am glad to see Gates in a regular Legion title again, he was definitely my favorite of the Reboot Legionnaires.

I've always reconciled this by the life expectancy in the two eras. If we accept that 'boy' refers to the first 20% of a male's life then by 3009 Boy could easily cover the first 30-35 years. So in the 31stC a bearded Star Boy is not weird but certainly would be in 2009. While Thom is in the 21stC he IS Starman and pedants like Brainy would refer to him as such. That said, I want him as Star Boy back with the Legion asap as much as anyone.

I wouldn't be too upset if he stayed as Starman when he gets home, as long as the others drop the Lad, Lass, Girl, Boy suffixes as well.


Seconded

Does anyone else laugh when they see "Crazy" Thom talk? Its sorta child like and cute at the same time. Just as long as he doesn't go the way "danny blaze" is supposed too then again the future is open so no need for him to be fated to die.

And Oh...Star Boy of the reboot team/wanders didn't die (in this cross over) either so Dreamer's prophecy didn't happen for him either.

PS. I love that I translated Thom's File cover within 20 mins w/o having to refer to an interlac page...

Silver Age Lad, Ditto on the what he said.

Blacula, I was the one who suggested that TT assumed multiple identities to suit his needs, but I may not have been the first.

Candle, I like Myriad a lot too, but she's been Duo Damsel for so long, I'd feel more comfortable with a name that was more similar phonetically, whether it's Domino or something else.

I want to see lots more of the Johnsboot Legion, but I still feel that redesigning their costumes didn't help matters any. They don't look or feel like the same characters to me. If they're trying to reconnect to the pre-crisis Legion complete with ties to Superman, giving them a whole new look seems counter-productive. But maybe that's just me.

Oh yeah. Onaccounta the Legion has TIME TRAVEL at its disposal, I fail to see why they're waiting around for Star Boy/Man to return. Why can't he be in both centuries at once, so to speak?