Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Official LSH 3 Worlds Thread #5 out (FINALLY!! - spoilers)

I've thought that too. There are signs that DC is being really smart about how it's setting up the next launch of the Legion, and I hope that that's how it plays out.

Of course, there are also signs that they can't make a single move without stepping on their own zards.

So, you know, we'll see.

I too was an optimist about things before this series started. I do not foresee the 5th issue coming out before August, and as has been said before, the delays seem to be with Perez's working pace, not the foresight of DC (which didn't exist with this series). He (Perez) seems to be attending plenty of comicons, though.

Initially I was also a bit thrown off by the fact that he's attending cons instead of finishing his work. I remember reading he was honored in 1 con or something along that line.

But then when I took a step back I figured that in a backhanded way it's going to help Lo3W. As I said, like it or not there seems to have been a paradigm shift where "creators" now overshadow their "creations". I don't recall Perez pencilling anything but Lo3W so if you're a new Perez fan and you wanna see him strut his recent stuff then look no further than Lo3W.

Makes me wonder too about how I would feel given 2 scenarios...

Scenario 1: Lo3W faces delays but it's Perez from the first issue to the last.

Scenario 2: L03W ships on time but it's Perez with "Justin Case" and "Phil Inn" working on some of the issues.

I've seen Scenario 2 with Infinite Crisis & Final Crisis so I would really pray to several random gods that it be Scenario 1. Sure we say "...as long as the story's good..." but then I think you have to also take in the fact that comics are a synthesis of story and art. The only time a change in art hasn't been disruptive to me is when there are either different times that the story is being told (present & flashback) or in the case of Gaiman's "Sandman" where an artist stays on for several issues that pertains to a specific story arc.

But more alarming to me is that more and more titles face an inevitable slide into cancellation/relaunch once the marquee creator names are out the door. I can no longer recall books that have managed to successfully transition (i.e. keep sales at the same level or more) to a new creative team. I'm sure there're books that transition well but I think its 1 out of 15 or 20.

I'm alarmed, but I haven't really finished thinking about the positives or negatives of this situation... :-\

You are right unless you get to mega level like the X-books for instance. Only Superman or the Batbooks can do it for DC and, sadly, I think it is 20 years too late for the Legion.

Hopefully, L3W will become a legend, like Watchmen 2 or Grant Morrison's Superman pitch. It's the only way it is not going to be worse than it will probably leave the franchise.

Interestingly, from Newsarama question 12, DiDio says L3W #4 should come out in April and #5 two months later in June, when on the DC site #4 is already slated for mid May. Guess the right hand really has no clue what the left is doing.

Also, I first encountered George Perez' work in the New Teen Titans. I was amazed. There is also an article on Newsarama about the George Perez: Storyteller re-release. I read through some of the pages previewed (there's 24) and page after page after page going back to the 80's, it's about him losing interest, or being bummed about it becoming a business not just a comic book, or doing too much at one time--in short, it's one delay after another on pretty much everything he's ever done. I really did not realize this.

It's not impossible that DiDio is hopeful they can beat that schedule. Issue # 3 was scheduled for February 11, and they moved it up to the 4th.

Geoff Jones, in his site, said artwork for LSH #4 is ready and said it looks gorgeous (nothing unexpected, when we think about George Pérez).
However he says <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">See… kidflashxs</span></span>. Wow, now we move from a <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Green Lantern book to a Flash book!</span></span>. I guess that's why it is called Legion of Super-Heroes! It's because we want to know <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">about the Justice League of the 31st Century.... NOT.</span></span>

What?
You don't want to know what happens to Batgirl XIX, Atom-girl or the Manizon Wonderboy?

I don't think it's too late, at all.

When the X-Men came out again after it's first cancelation, they started with many new characters, new enemies and an updated focus.

The females were powered up (Jean was pretty weak in the first run and usually a hostage) and the nationalities were varied, while the heroes had more angst going on.

Perhaps, Johns ideas will reinvent the Legion successfully and the creative team that takes over will be as brilliant as the early teams on the X-Men.

I think everything will depend on how much DC is willing to go for the new generation of readers.

That's the thing... I don't know how much effect any new run can have now, since fewer people are reading comics than in the 70s.

I have zero problems with this as both of those characters were important to the Reboot Legion. It doesn't seem as much of departure as the Daxamite GL with only very tangential ties was.

I have zero interest in Reboot Legion. And one of these characters was tangentially linked to it, anyway. Sorry, but Reboot Legion has even fewer fans than TMK. Let's move forward and ignore it, as they did to TMK's)

You are welcome to do so. But if Reboot Legion has even one fan, I'd expect them to be welcome here.

Given what happened in L3W #3 this artwork shouldn't be any surprise. XS was always going to be a big part of L3W and from Flash Rebirth we know that Bart is heading to the C21 but if he sells a few thousand copies of L3W then why complain. And the art is only two pages.

The L3W story arc is about THREE Legions. Even if the 'Lightning Saga' Legion is the main thread the other Legions are vital parts of the arc irrespective of what individuals feel about the respective merits of those Legions. I loathed with a vengence what was done to the Legion with the reboot and threeboot but I know others think differently and these Legions deserve to have their stories closed - if that is what happens.

I also think that the TMK Legion should be in L3W as well even though I hated the TMK run. The TMK run was spoiled by terrible artwork and poor story-telling but the characters were still valid Legionnaires and deserve the same treatment as the reboot and threeboot (as do their fans). At least if they were in, Ricardo might be a bit happier!

It's not about the fans of the Reboot (of course it isn't) but it is for this "selective choice" of Johns of deciding what's canon out of his pocket. At least Giffen's hat trick had some logic.
Sorry if some people may have found it was personal: it was never meant to be about the fans, but about Johns' choices solely.
And again: L3W seems to be more about Flash, Superboy and Green Lantern than Legion. And I really don't think that's the way to revamp a franchise.

On one level I agree, but I also think that there may be some deep strategy here, that DC is trying to:

a) link the Legion more closely to the rest of the DCU, and
b) use Legion appearances to expose the Legion to readers of JLA, JSA, Action, Final Crisis, Flash and Green Lantern

both of which are intended to build a larger Legion audience.

I'm not enthusiastic about either of those things, but I can certainly see why DC would try it. I'd probably try it too if I were they.

personaly i agree as much as i don't want too linking the legion to other books will only help not hurt.

this book could be doing a lot worse of a job and we all know it

it boils down to the legion having a big problem, so they need more legion, when that still isn't enough they need more help..think about it how pissed would you be if it was another quick solution to the job, like brainy pressing a button and it was okay?

I just don't see how that would help if historically every time Legion was tied to current time DCU, the book simply got much messier.
And we don't have to push back that much. Just recently, they brought Supergirl to LSH - to dismall effects. Legion works better (and sold better) when it stands/stood on its own, when it doesn't get into the nitty-gritty of current affairs.
I can also recall the Timber Wolf mini, Valor, Legionnaires 3 - all tried to get the book into 20th Century to make it closer to DCU. It didn't work.
Now, they will probably push some of the 10,000 Superboys around to become a leader? Of a group of adults? Well...

If this strategy works, it will be solely due to Mr. Geoff Johns. He leaves, the book sinks again. And Legion may probably be pushed further into 2010, since Johns will probably tackle more books into 2010. Let's wait and see. Unless James Robinson comes along. Then I may have some faith, especially if he pushes the book into more mature and away from DCU pastures.

ricardo, i think you misunderstood.

to me, DC is not trying to tie the legion into the actual plots of the current DCU. see L3W: it has the words "final crisis" in its title but it really doesn't have anything from morrison's saga in it. or take mon-el: yeah, right now he's in the 21st century, but he's a younger character than the one that will join the legion. so, i don't see where the confusion is.

instead, i think DC is just trying to make the legion's future feel more like it's the current DC's future and not an entity of its own. they put the green lanterns in it, they put speedsters in it... etc.

Wow, the absolute last thing I want to see is Robinson bringing his "mature" take to the Legion (Though I'll admit Mon-El has been bearable so far, but it's only been two issues). I had my fill of him giving every Golden Age hero some "dark" secret and/or hang up, I don't need it in Legion, thanks.

Much agreed. Just because Superman isn't a boy anymore doesn't mean his books are dark and disturbing. The Legion can still be the Legion without going Vertigo or even Giffen.

I loved TMK, I hated the Reboot, the Threeboot left a huge question mark over my head and I really appreciated everything Johns did with his Legion approach those last two years.

Don't know what that makes me - but what I feel is most important to me is a Legion which grows up and is NOT simply the teenage soap of the decade.

For me, it comes down to one question: Is it possible to repeat the miracle save of JSA ten years ago? Is it possible to resurrect a franchise and make it a fan favorite again by simply telling decent stories?

I'm currently reading Johns JSA (1999 series) and hey - this is not the next Watchmen, far from it, but it is simply fun to read! The characters have grown up, younger ones are coming on board like Stargirl, you grow accustomed to them and follow them on their adventures and look what you have: A successful comic book which ran for a decade with the same writer on the helm, and mostly, it was really good and sold well...

... now can DC repeat this miracle with the Legion?

It's probably utopic to hope that Johns will stay on the LSH for ten years - but maybe only two could be the charm...

L3W for me is a very decent, very fun book which has the right feel about it. And I really do care for the characters - the classic ones the most, but that's just me - and that's a major difference to Waids run when I did not give a damn about any of these carbon copy characters...

Certainly, this book has a little bit much of DC regular characters in it. Lanterns, I like since my childhood, Flashes, I never gave a damn for (and XS I always hated with a special fervor). But it doesn't matter: There's plenty of Legion on panel, I really care for what's happening next and the artwork is splendid. So if you're asking me, this series is a giant step into the right direction, and the only problem I'm having with the delays is the fact that there would have been plenty of time to decently finish Shooters story.

Knowing my favorite artist George Perez tends to take his time to finish his masterworks, DC might have known this in advance and planned accordingly. But why should they bother....

I don't see dark secrets on Starman. Much to the contrary: that's a mature way to talk about heroes. That's a possible tone for a Robinson Legion.
However, I'd LOVE a Vertigo Legion Sci-Fi book.

DC is tying the Legion in to present events... in Johns' DCU, not Morrison's DCU.

Without a wholesale change in the way comics are made and marketed, I can't see connecting the Legion to the DCU to be good for the Legion. As long as events are more valuable than steady sales, DC will continue to "shake up" the present, and subordinate the Legion every time.