Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Official LSH 3 Worlds Thread #5 out (FINALLY!! - spoilers)

so far I have never seen Geoff written anything that are gay-related issues - look at Obsidian in JSA - what's he doing there with JSA - just a security guard in JSA headquarter? No mention of Terry Berg in Green Lantern series? I don't think he's comfortable writing those gay or lesbian characters. I m disappointed.

That's a possibility. Maybe he's afraid of stereotyping, maybe he's all "moral" about it...either way it bugs me because I excitedly told a friend of mine that the Legion had a mainstream bisexual superheroine in Lightning Lass (based on the fact that she apparently hit on Magnetic Kid while starting the relationship with Vi).

Bisexuals are criminally under-represented and rarely represented well - the pages and panels I've seen of Lightning Lass displaying her preferences have been tasteful and well-done. It irks me to see that just tossed aside.

Actually, I got that impression in the Action Comics arc with this Legion. I can't say if Johns was trying to deliberately supress the V4 Vi/Ayla relationship as much as just blatantly trying to reset the Legion to some imaginary pre-Crisis ideal state. Never mind that Brin and Ayla were over well before Crisis, and that it was a springboard to deepening both characters for the better.

This was a very exciting issue.

Every artist should aspire to draw issues like this.

The story worked for me too. Virtually every page left me anxious for what would happen on the next.

I can see feeling cheated by an approach that does not match continuity. However, I've always been more interested in writers getting the characters right than getting the history right. Lest that prompt an exclamation that the characters are not right, I can only say that character interpretation is always subjective. The new old legion is in tune with what I expect, and I want to see more and more of them.

Well it's a big book and there's no way he can pack everything in to five issues anyway with all the havoc wrought by the LSV...so I don't think he should be blamed for leaving anything out...plus he's working on a ton of other things...so I'd say he's doing an awesome job!

I'm loving every bit of it so far, and even though I'm sure I could find faults, I'm not going to, because the writing is amazing.

are we talking about the same johns that gave dawnstar a subtle lesbian relationship?

from what i've read, i don't think he does that much romance, period. he seems to do more uhm... general relationships? like parental relationships, and friendship relationships and general familial relationships? and betrayal of those relationships... the romantic things seem to be more uhm... like uh...mentioned? even in the flash, where he was pretty much always like 'LINDA LINDA LINDA, i love my wife, tralala" i felt more of an emotional charge to his relationship with barry and dick grayson. same with his GL stuff i've read, hal likes that... one "cowgirl" lady but i feel more weight to the sinestro relationship and his relationship with his family and the shadow of his father.

the clunkier parts, even though i'm a rabid johns fan, seem to be the romance parts, they always seem to say really uh... hahaha dramatic things to each other??

i thought blok and white witch, and dream girl and starboy-man, and even the things that thanagarian lady said about dawnstar made me giggle and seemed silly. but when i read things like cos talking about the sacrifices he's made, that seems much more powerful. i haven't read much of his JSA stuff, i noted the libertybell/whatshisface relationship which i think is really cute but sort of light and comedic from what i read?

i think he sort of keeps things subtle/quiet on the romance front and might just be playing to his other strengths.

i'm SUPER happy with what he IS showing us, and it's a breath of fresh air to FULLY UNDERSTAND EVERY PANEL after being crisis-ed. if later he's like "and the legion hates the gay" i'll be hte first to pass out pitchforks.

Also...

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Myg, the former Karate Kid II. I always liked him. Ohwell. </span></span>

Hey, some of us writers aren't all that comfortable writing romance or sexy stuff. I'm a big old clunky guy..with a three year old. My attempts at romance now basically boil down to "ya wanna?". I can write all types of stuff, but trying to do justice to relationship POV's outside my personal pervue...not so good.

I probably wouldn't try to write a gay or bi relationship, not because I am uncomfortable, but because i wouldn't want to misrepresent one, or unintentionally hurt a segment of my readership.

Louis L'Amour is one of my favorite writers, but you don't get real romance or sex scenes from his stuff. Simon R. Green delves into the real dirt and grim of the Nightside, but i can't think of a single instance where he has done the full tilt boogie. And while i know that sex and romance are not always the same thing, being that big clunky guy that I am, the tend to go hand in hand with me.

Maybe Johns is the same way.

To me it's more that Johns is SPECIFICALLY hinting at Brin-Ayla than the fact that he's not writing Ayla-Vi. They're constantly posed together in Lo3W and the Action story, as well as Ayla letting out a "BRIN--" as they both get beaten down in this issue. If they were all portrayed as just neutral I wouldn't really care, but I can't shake the feeling that this is another Unmentioned Awkward Johnsboot Retcon.

But it's also insubstantial enough that any other writer can come in and ignore it, so it's not THAT big a deal. Just curious what other people thought about it.

On a more positive note, since nobody else mentioned it yet - I love the fact that Winath is apparently pronounced differently in each universe.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Myg bites the farm too. Radiation Roy fries him.</span></span>

I think your continuity is a bit off...it's not a retcon or at least, it's not really new one. The Johnsboot Legion is rebooted at some point between the GDS and LSH#37 and is generally considered to have been picked up at a point before the Crisis.

Beyond all that, this isn't exactly the same continuity of even the Pre Crisis Legion.

But just for the sake of getting the time frame of this Legion, the relationship between Vi and Ayla was only hinted at in the early part of the Baxter run, probably not before the COIE, and really the relationship didn't get developed until the 5YG. And none of the 5YG is in the continuity of this Legion.

Quite a bit of stuff from the end of the Baxter run didn't happen as well(as far as we know)...the Magic Wars, the battle with the Time Trapper and the Infinite Man.

Really not even all the stuff before the COIE happened, but generally speaking, these characters are as they were from before the COIE. The VI Ayala relationship was pretty much a Post Crisis relationship. Even during the Baxter run when it was shown someting was going on between Ayala and Vi, she was still shown to be carrying a torch for Timber Wolf, so even if there was a relationship between Vi and Ayala in this continuity it wouldn't be out of character for her to scream Brin's name at this point in time...as it's still well before anything strong developed between Vi and Ayla.

FWIW, several fans during the Action arc commented that there'd be no way Violet would be on civil terms with Yera as well.

hey Veryvery - that's right, I completely forgot about Dawnstar and the Thanagarian "lover" in the old issues of JLA! thanks for the reminder.

BTW, I loved this story. It was fun.

rick: word, i totally agree. i definitely respect writers that just skirt such things if they know they can't handle it. i would prefer writers that can't write gay characters abstain, because we end up with aids babies or crazy suicides.

Mustn't... read... spoilers...

Wildfire could use a lesson in blunt. Whiny and needy hasn't worked so why not?

rick/yk: actually, that's way more believable. you SHOULD write things like that because you have life experience !!! way more healthy than stuff like "i could swim in the eternity of your eyes" or whatever

Well there's really no way to get the continuities to fit seamlessly. There's really no way to get the Pre-Crisis continuity to fitseamlessly with the Post IC Earth. There's just no way to do it.

I don't really think they are trying to claim this is exactly the Pre-Crisis Legion. I think it's obviously a New Earth and as stated in this Legion, the keystone for all the Earths. This isn't the Earth 1 Legion...it's just more like it than anything we've seen since Crisis. Earth 1 is probably out there...Earth 2 is.

There is no way to do a story like this without continuity gaffes IMHO. It's hard for even hardcore Legion fans to get the continuities straight and the continuities didn't work before this story either. The continuity on all Legions has been broken for a long time.

One thing on the Green Lantern issue...

You know, I don't think it's still this way, but Pre Crisis, the Green Lantern Corps HQ wasn't just located on Oa...

It was located on Oa in the 30th century...IOW, every time Hal went to Oa, he was going to the 30th century as well. I assume they did this to avoid having to explain too much about the GLC in the Legion...and I don't think it's a still a rule that is observed by the current writers of GL...

But it could explain how the effects of whatever destroyed the Corps are shown immediately in the 31st century...IOW, a few years ago there could have been many or so it seemed in the 30th century, and now there are none.

What it doesn't explain is Yat saying he has been alone for so long...then again, him being alone doesn't mean there haven't been any Green Lanterns during that time he was alone, as obviously there was Rond and Universo, and Yat was still alone.

superboy, you're my supernerd hero. omg.

man, i might be misremembering or confusing things but i thought i heard that lanterns were banned from earth in the future? is that true? what is that from? is that in operation here at all?

The story I think was in continuity. It's from LSH #295...but seeing as how the Earth is about to be destoyed, I don't think they are going to be choosy. Plus I think it was only on Mondays or something like that like someone else mentioned.

I do think Johns is tying the Legion more into the DC Uni...

But more, I think he's making a full blown 31st century DC Superhero community. I mean they potentially have a Flash now. He's made all sorts of ties to the Green Lantern Corps with Yat and Color Kid.


The other thing he is doing that he really hasn't stated...he's marrying the Legion and the Titans on a scale few have attenpted. I mean the big reveal at the end of this was more of a Titan event than a Legion, and if the reveal at the Adventure ends up being tied into this story, it's really going to be a Titans event.

But yeah...Mon-El is going to be the lead in Action, all sorts of Green Lantern ties in this Legion, Starman is in the JSA and that's feeding into this...and now the Flash and Titans fans have something going on that is Legion related...

He's definitely giving fans of other heroes and teams a reason to be interested in the Legion.

I still think the biggest tie he's making is between the Titans and the Legion though.

When you think of all he's doing...any Legion project should sell well.

When Johns attempts to fix something...he pulls out all the stops. The Legion is going to be fixed(in the sales sense) when he's done with it. At least until someone comes along and undoes all of it...sigh(which unfortunately someone always does).

superboy: i wholly agree with your prediction/analysis.

i think tying the legion to TT is a very good idea, considering that the people reading those books likes reading about young heroes... why not read about young heroes in the future too? (Assuming the characters will be teens) i know a lot of younger people read TT specifically BECAUSE there are people closer to their age in it and they feel like they can relate to those characters more easily than, say, a superman or batman.

Issue #3 was honestly a great issue! I read it twice and it's always nice to catch something you missed the first time around.
I won't spoil it for anyone who hasn't read it yet but any true Legion fan should definately pick this series up.
Thank God the Green Lantern stuff was kept to a minimal (a la the preview pages that we saw a week ago but that's all).

Geoff Johns seems like he is having the time of his life with this book ... tying up some long-standing loose ends and such. I can honestly say this writer does indeed care about every version of the Legion, not just "his" "classic" one that I thought originally. I'm proud of the guy, he hasn't let me down (me thinking that this series was just a prologue for GL and Flash). He is tying it all together quite nicely and being fair and respectful to the Legion mythos as a whole. He's also addressing some cool questions we all have about things like "I wonder what so-and-so would say if they ever met their counterpart from another reboot?". Good job!
It's like one of us wrote this issue (a caring fan who respects all aspects of Legion lore), that's what it felt like to me.
It was an awesome read and I urge everyone to give it a shot, you will SO not regret it.

Oh and for the record, Perez rocks!!! How can anyone say the man is "slowing down" or whatever after seeing his amazing stuff, especially in this issue, and the last two as well imo.
George Perez is a living legend in our time.

even though I knew what was going to happen it still gave me goosebumps and my excitement grew with each turning of the page.

AWESOME!