Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Official LSH 3 Worlds Thread #5 out (FINALLY!! - spoilers)

And that's the part that scares me about this.

I love the idea that the big boy scout still thinks like a hero, and that his idealism remains intact, but from another perspective, he's just said that Prime's murder of 20,000 Takron-Galtos workers (as well as various Teen Titans, and the civilian population of Smallville) is nothing that he'd be willing to get his hands dirty to prevent from happening again. Would Doomsday be getting the big 'let's convince him to be a hero' treatment, or is Superman only being soft on this kid because he looks like Superman?

On an in-story rationale, perhaps Prime *can* be redeemed. For one shining moment, all is right with the world. Legion code against killing faces one of it's harshest tests, and prevails.

But going out-of-story, we *know* that he'll be trotted out the next time Didio or whomever wants a Superman-powered slaughterfest. So long as any writer in the future thinks that he's cool, he'll be back to killing people, so his 'redemption' will be lucky to last as long as the average Jean Grey death.

At that point, which, I fear, is inevitable, the deaths of everyone Prime kills is on Superman's hands for not doing something permanent to the guy. (And I don't mean just killing him. There are plenty of people present in the 31st century who can depower him, turn him into a statue, or a friendly puppy, or telepathically turn him into a nice guy, or freeze him in stasis forever.)

The only 'redemption' that would work for me is the suggestion that he perhaps die trying to destroy the Time Trapper, and that seems really in-character for him anyway (since he doesn't seem like the type who would react well to the notion that he's been set up and used by a 'real villain,' one who may have very carefully arranged stuff like the Superman museum 'fake history' or the retcon of the LSV worshipping him).

Even then, some heroic death is the easy way out and *far better than he deserves.* It's not like he's going to be forced to spend a second's time trying to put Pantha's head back on her shoulders or writing letters to Takron-Galtos-Prison-Guard's-Widow #18,572 apologizing for why her husband isn't coming home, ever, and could she use some Superman-powered help providing for the kids he orphaned?

Well, I finally read it. And its by far the most exciting opening to a Legion story I've read in...hell, one of the most ever!

I thought it was excellent and I loved it! Johns outdid himself. Lots of little tidbits, such as Tyroc confirmed as a member, a little suggestion of Mordru's evil inspiring Cosmic King, the 'missing' Legionnaires still out there as a potential other interesting storyline, etc. I loved all of those things.

RJ Brande's reappearance was highly dramatic, although quite sad. But I do think it was well done.

The Time Trapper is played well thus far, as one of DC's most powerful characters.

The build-up to Brainy suggesting they contact the other two Legion's was magnifcent. The best part of the story.

I only have two reservations, one not really far but will be tested by time: (1) I'm highly worried about a Legion slaughterfest like others and then (2) *some* of the Legionnaires are being given personalities more in line with how they've been portrayed in the last two boots. Actually, not some, just Garth and Brainy. I think Johns should tone it down a little when using this Legion.

Set, I feel your pain-- I've been complaining for years that Batman's repeated mollycoddling of the Joker has shifted all the blood of the Joker's murder victims firmly onto Batman's hands. Just kill the freak already, Bats.

I really *don't* want the same thing to happen to Superman and Supes-Prime.

I think v.v's suggestion for redemption may be the ONLY out here... and I think it would stick, as long as Geoff Johns is in favor at DC, anyway.

Or we could go the whole "de-aged into a baby" route...

That's a great idea Lash! Prime sacrifices all to kill the TT and the combined Legions find an infant squalling in the rubble..but..it was previously shown that without the Trapper we get Glorith and without the Demon Mother we get Mordru. I wonder if Geoff will address this aspect of inevitability in the Legion's mythos?

I don't think Garth and Brainy are being portrayed offmark. I've always felt Garth as a loose-cannon. Brainy is actually acting a bit more like Waid conceived him (which is alright to me).

And I bow to Nightcrawler's LSH knowledge.

I'm only on page two of my annotations , but thought I'd chime in to let everyone know that I've solved the mystery of the Time Trapper's true identity.


<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">He's Superboy Prime</span></span>

Where's Chemical King?

Man, it really bugs me now that Shooter didn't have 3boot Wildfire join the team! That was the only Wildfire that was using the classic Cockrum design and it would've been great to see that in this series! (I hope Johns manages to throw him in there at some point...)

Way late on the one, but hey, EVERYBODY had been guessed.

Two downers to the proposals, al la "redemption."

TT would ID'ed. I much prefer TT as an unknown
TT would be "dead" (until he isn't)

No way S-P stays dead. Not letting that copyright or whatever it is lapse again.

Given the poor history of dead staying dead...

Ferro Lad may be not only the first to go but the first to stay gone. Barry's back. Kara's back (right?).

Doesn't ANYONE stay dead anymore?

I thought that the opening to this series was fantastic!!! This is the Legion I've been longing for all these years. THIS is the Legion I grew up with and became a fan of back in 1980. The art is great and the "old" characterization that made this book great in the 80's is starting up again...so many things going on at the same time! ican't wait until we start to delve into the characters and see were they've been in life all of these years. Do the Ranzzs still have the twins (at least one set), when/how did Brin and Ayla get back together?, Dawny vs Bounty issue, what the heck happened to Myg?!? etc? I love what's going on with the LSH!!!

Grant Morrison actually hinted this is one of the things he will tackle on Final Crisis. And I bet it is one of the reasons he trivialized Jonn Jonzz's murder on #1.

As for Portfolio Boy's thesis - I'd be very frustrated if anyone is under the hood. He is f****** entropy, for Christ's sake! He SHOULD Be, at least. Unless Time Trapper becomes a new Spectre-like character, but again, it cheapens his royalty. This was one of the reasons Zero Hour made me almost puke - Cos as TT was a cheap and illogical choice, a mere shocking event for shock's sake.

Ya know I always thought it was just a version of Cos that had become Trapper. Or more so a part of the Trapper that had allowed itself tobecome Cos. If only to save that Legion in some way.

This was a wonderful first issue. So much detail, with all the U.P. characters, I want to go over it again. Some reviewers have called it just a set-up issue, but there was a lot of thought-provoking material here - the "alien" question, the Legion's role past and present, how the different planets' reps responded and the redemption question.

I like the idea of redemption and of aspiring to redemption, but hope that SP is not redeemed - it would just be too sappy - but we'll see what Johns does with it. I liked the redemption of sorts that Roxxas had in 5YL: he didn't apologize for his crimes, but he came to realize that he was linked to Jan Arrah, emotionally, morally, psychicly. It was some level of awareness that he didn't have before.

Anyways, it would be enough if Saturn Girl's hope that alien hatred could be removed.

Poor McCauley, what an ignoble end. He really got the worse of his bargain with the Trapper; appropriate, since betrayal is something he would have done.

Death of RJ Brande: well, I hope he's not really dead (selfish reasons trump story telling) but he certainly had a shining final scene. RJ at his best: he walks into a room and commands it.

Finally, I feel as if Brainy is back to normal. Throw in a blond love interest and he's 100%.

Random thing that struck me;

In the picture of the two other Legions, I was taken aback (not nearly as fun as being taken afront, sadly), that the Threeboot team has so few *new* members. Dream Boy is the only original new character, whereas the team on the facing page has Kid Quantums, Gates, XS, Kinetix, Gear, Andromeda, Thunder, etc. and the 'Action' team has Blok, Quislet, Tyroc, Tellus, Chameleon Girl, Night Girl, etc. shown.

Shooter's addition of Sizzle, Turtle, Night Girl and Gazelle looks pretty timely, in that light!

Random shallow artwork thoughts;

Garth looks too scruffy, and his outburts are getting very old, very fast. He's a parent, not an infant! Imra looks like she's recovering from chemo (although *much* better than she looked under Franks pencil, where she looked like she was recovering from a ten-year heroin addiction!). Rokk looks very square-jawed and mature, and, of the three, is the least jarring, as that looks suits him.

R.J. Brande is the best-drawn dude in the book. He looks exactly like I remember him!

Brainy still needs to cut his hair. And go to anger management classes. And perhaps reconsider that 'smart' thing, since he utterly falls for the most transparent manipulation from Ayla, ever.

I was prepared to hate Tinya's short hair, but she's definitely pulling it off in that Phantom Zone scene! I like it.

Tasmia isn't 'dark' enough, for my taste. Her pale blue-ish skin should be darker, IMO. Or, heck, electric blue, for all I care. She looks corpse-blue and that's creeping me out.

Great to see Mon-El back from the Zone!

I love how they squeaked in the Teen Titans, who are kinda-sorta Legionnaires after their team-up with the Legion (Conner, particularly, whom I still kinda miss).

The Ambassadors from Taltar and Talok VIII are hot.

Myg's still not Asian. Grr.

Saturn Queen's got a perpetual 'deer in headlights' look. I'm not sure what's up with that...

Nemesis Kid looks like he needs a nap, with those bags under his eyes. Or he's going for the 'Draco Malfoy' look.

Magno Lad looks like he needs to cut back on the twinkies. Spider Girl, on the other hand, looks like she needs a sammich, before she cuts someone with those cheekbones. Ol-Vir looks all growed up. Lazon, on the other hand, looks like he's regressed to about thirteen...

Superboy Prime looks way better in that bustin' out of TG scene with the orangey eyes and fully dressed than he's looked all comic.

Timber Wolf has taken Star Boy's place as 'token dude with facial hair.' Cool, it suits him.

Did anyone else think it was Lady Memory who said the Legion woman have always been strong?

And if SB-Prime landed in 3008 why did Supes land in 3009?

Other than that wee gripe I loved this issue - the art was fantastic! The story was very engaging, no major colouring errors ( a first for the Legion in a looooong while), loads of great quotes and interesting characterisation.

Oh, and are Garth and Imra squeezing Rokk's bottom in the panel where RJ flys down to them?

I always thought that the founders were closer than was ever shown, now I have proof!

Hey all. I just read Legion Archives #3 and two things kind of stuck me.
The first is on Adv325, page 4. Lex Luthor watches Cham and Proty II visiting their "parallel-world doubles in another dimension". I never knew they actually knew about it. This naturality could explain Brainy's "call-for-help" in another Earth.
The second story was on Superboy117, in which Superboy meets 5 Legionnaires from a parallel Earth in which they were super-creeps. Again, this hints to the Legion knowledge of parallel teams in other Earths. Both stories were written by Jerry Siegel.
So, if Crisis is being ignored for L3W, can we say these are still canon?

I would definitely say so. And don't forget the annual (or was it an anniversary issue, can't recall right now) that dealt with Rond & Brainy trying to cure Douglas Nolan. Throught that issue, multiple alternate Earth's are shown, most if not all, with there own Legion.

Ya know I've got a couple of those issues that you guys are talking about. It makes me wonder just how, if at all, those would be retconned ..or If they would at all.

Overheard at the Toronto Fan Expo:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=17827

Is Mordru the Time Trapper?

From JSA#51(oct.03):

Dr.Fate: "You are correct,Mordru. This is not your ultimate fate. That lies much further up the time-stream,at the end of the universe itself. At eternity."

"Even as the stars burn out and the universe dies,even as time itself ends--you will still be trapped here,preserved like an insect in amber."

Yes that was in LOSH #300.


There have always have been alternate versions of the Legion.


Even in the Post Crisis Uni you could argue we saw alternate versions of the Legion in ZH.

Nooooooooooo I don't want them to do that. Unless it's just a case of Mordru taking his turn as being the Trapper.

That's one of those things that instead of having two semi-legenday characters we'll have one that is neither. I don't like that sort of merge...

I just noticed that Dr. Gym'll got his fourth arm back!

Overall I guess I liked this. The things I didn't like about the Action issues are still there, like Lightning Lad's personality transplant. But there were a few things that I really enjoyed that were subtle: Colossal Boy taking the mission to look for his best friend (in the Levitz run at least) Chameleon Boy, and Tinya's happy reaction to Shadow Lass and Mon-El's reunion. Ultra Boy and the other three were frequently seen together during the Legion's down time. I liked seeing those old character bits thrown in without a lot of fanfare, they're just there for the old fans to enjoy.

I have to say that after all these years of accepting the closure of the old Legion during "End Of An Era" that it's kind of hard for me to take it seriously when Brande is assasinated. After all, to me he met up with Reep on that crazy cowboy robot sheriff planet and then tried to haul the Pocket Dimension Earth into the place of the destroyed one. It gives this new story the instant feel of an Elseworlds to me.

I was glad to see Dr. Gym'll back, he was such a steady supporting cast member back in the day. It would be nice if the old supporting S.P.'s could make an appearance too, like Gigi Cusimano and Dvron. I sort of feel like I can expect it after this issues cameo/easter egg feast.