Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Official LSH 3 Worlds Thread #5 out (FINALLY!! - spoilers)

Why the all powerful Time Traperr are always in rags and barefoot?
What kind od super villain is he?
Don't have money to shop new dresses and shoes?
And what version is this, the original (Future Rokk), Glorith (Who forget her fashion time) or a new and silly version of a villain without a real reason to hate Superman & The Legion?

Myg could be part of the espiangoe squad behind the scenes. just like brainy was faking hating the legion Myg could be faking too...or he really needs val to come and beat his ass.

Not to get all "Secret Invasion," but shouldn't someone - the LSH, the UP reps - question if RJ was actually RJ - both before he gets shot and especially after he gets shot and is revealed as a Durlan? Yes, the LSH knew he was a Durlan, but why would anyone take this guy at face-value that he is the long lost RJ, conveniently popping up now, and not some other Durlan or shapeshifter, etc? Even one word balloon of Imra saying, "yes, i've scanned him, it is RJ" would've been nice.

And doesn't anyone else remember that RJ was STUCK in that form by Levitz at some point during his run? I don't think he should have been able to revert to any other form (and even if he could, he would have instead gone to the true Durlan form (tentacle ugly, not orange humanoid).

I seem to recall that RJ got unstuck, I just can't quote issue and panel on that.

Careful with that word "obvious." lol.

How did you get all that other stuff out of that magazine?

No, it is obvious.

On two occasions, Garth Ranzz, Imra Ardeen and Rokk Krinn were on the scene when a business rival attempted to assassinate R.J. Brande. The first time led to the founding of the Legion. The second time may have led to the disbanding of the Legion. Obvious symmetry.

Again?
That trick never works!

It wasn't obvious to me but thanks for the explanation.

now why was it important this symmetry?

Don'tcha know?

"What immortal hand or eye
Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?"

you're not going to make me look that up are you.

I'm on vacation.

It wasn't an attempt to enlighted you, although if I did it was my pleasure. Sincerely.


Actually, since you stated that the character wasn't one that could be taken seriously, and you said that in response to my statement about his personality...I think there was a linear logic to my conclusion based upon your statement. Not a strawman at all IMO.

The clear and obvious implication there in your statement is that he isn't a realistic character, or IYW, a character to taken seriously because of his personality.

Being boorish doesn't automatically preclude a character from being taken seriously as far as I know.

well i think that was the problem that happened after he was assassinated, that people weren't sure if he was really RJ or not.

Using words like "clear" and "obviously" as if it should apply to all does not make it so and it's generally disrespectful in a conversation about differences of opinions IMO and a large deduction in debate.

I tried as politely as I could that I wasn't interested in your snide manner (enlighten) so more bluntly, feel free to move on as will I. Please do not respond to my posts and I promise to do likewise for yours.

Just a parlor trick writers like to do.

I wasn't trying to make you like him by the way...that I could never do, no one can change a personal preference like that.


As for what I find entertaining about the character, and this entire situation..

I think it's enormously amusing that he is the visual representation of a character that was retconned out of continuity for being too unrealistic, too hokey, too nostalgic. Considered no longer suitable for the more serious minded comics buying audience. A product of a bygone era and a more innocent time, with no viable universe to inhabit.

And what was he retconned out for? More realism. Realistic personalities, realistic , unidyllic pasts...realistic depictions of violence featuring more realistic characters reacting in a more realistic fashion to more realistic situations.


Well...good ole hokey Superboy is back, and he's pissed. And he is now attuned with the modern comics audience you see. He is no longer innocent, or the product of an idyllic upbringing. And he now has a very real personality, as well as a very realistic reaction to his fate since the COIE. And he is now very adept at portraying the more violent tone prefereed by modern audiences.

Superboy just wants to belong you see, that's all he ever wanted. But since all he got was hate, he's decided to hate back. Is it really so hard to understand?

I am sorry but what Johns did here, reflecting the sensibilities of modern comics through a nostalgic charater and turning them upon their ear, is absolutely brilliant. And it's funny watching the reactions and conflict over what he is doing. It's definitely cerebral stuff...high level button punching and a direct challenge to the sensibilities of the modern audience...


SB Prime absolutely is representative of the tone and sensibility of modern comics. Even though his voice is often representative of a more innocent era.


And the delicious irony about it, is the ones gripping the most about what he is about to do, are the same ones that are so fond of pointing out why the original Superboy longer fit(s)and wasn't important.....too hokey. The Legion outgrew him etc.


That equally out of favor, unappreciated, boring, predictable, goody two shoes Superman is going to have to play a role in stopping him, and saving those realistic versions of the Legions, stopping a character created of their own sensibility, from enacting a revenge highly reflective of their own sensitiblity upon them...that's just gravy.

As is the fact that he is the vengeful wrath of the Pre Crisis DC Uni, upon the Post Crisis DC Uni...dispensing a healthy spoonful of the Post Crisis Uni's own medicine to it...


BTW, I don't know that he's adored by the fans he's ridiculing. I don't consider message board posters to be represenative of the majority of comic book fans. If you can show me a message board with a membership of 120-180k, represenative of the audience of the best selling title(s), then I will concede the point.

But even if he is adored by them...what's so wrong with being able to laugh about the degree to which we take comics so seriously? I don't consider taking myself too seriously to be a virtue. And I read comics for entertainment...


Beyond that, Johns is extremely fond of the character, and since he doesn't have a rep for ridiculing or being hostile towards his fans...just the opposite in fact, I don't automatically assign a malicious intent to Johns characterization of the character. He's challenging the sensibilities of modern fans...and he's putting their perceptions about which characters are good characters and which ones are bad ones...to the test.


He got that from Alan Moore IMO...and it's pretty nifty.


I personally believe that the majority of comics fans will enjoy having their modern sensibilities challenged and put to the test. I mean it beats mindless hacking. It never hurts to challenge prevailing mindsets...if they are worthy of being the prevailing mindset, they will stand up to the challenge.

Similar to creating an inspiration for LSV to parallel Legion? A "trick?"

Never noticed this type of symmetry as a writing tool. I shouldn't have slept so much in English. Still don't get its power, what emotion it's supposed to evoke here? I teach in an integrated curriculum and it would be very useful if I had examples of effective symmetry in writing to compare with symmetries in the subject I teach, Math.

On a bit more arguementative tact:

If I uderstand correctly then it is only symmetry if it is the cause for Legion to disband, however, that was already going to happen. If anything, my thoughts would be that the murder of Brande should galvanize all three Legions. Not kill them.

come to think of this....I find the situation with the Durlans/Rj Brande eerily similar to Skrulls in Secret Invasion.

Well to be honest...I didn't really appreciate you giving me your opinion and then telling me mine wasn't needed.

As you wish.

That's a pretty interesting take on SBPrime. I hadn't looked at him that way at all, that adds some depth I hadn't previously been aware of. So he dons a costume based on a fictional childhood hero as a lark then discovers that heroism is serious business, not all is fun and games and happy endings and not all problems are solved in 8 or 12 or 22 pages.
It also suggests that Prime doesn't see comic book people as "real" and if he only does enough damage them the authors of reality will be forced to reboot and (of course) he'll then become the Superman he dreams of being, after all he assisted in recreating reality once before so why shouldn't he be able to do it again? Never mind that he's found himself in a reality as genuine as the one he was born into.
That's not bad.

So out of curiosity, is this your take on SBPrime or did this come out of an interview or something? Whichever, I like it. It explains the 'darker grittier' Lightning Saga Legion in a way that makes some sense and doesn't involve Keith Giffen as the primary mover. Johns makes the good guys tougher and leaner but still true to their vision whereas the 5yg Legion lost their way and abandoned the dream.

Since the RJ appearing in this issue was wearing a flight belt...my theory is that he's Proty II.

Bwah ha ha ha ha

I'm also curious if it has been previously established that Durlans change shape when dead. I don't seem toremember that happening before but I also don't really remember any Durlans ever getting killed before. It does seem all too convenient that Brande shows up just in time to get killed.

That's it! RJ'S A SKRULL!!! >_> <_< Or a martian..as he was rumoured to be DC's fave Martian J'onn J'onnz xD

They weren't sure because, apart from Legionnaires, nobody knew he was a Durlan. Hence, people didn't buy it at face value.

Where in the comic book has the Legion abandoned their dream? Some characters might have retired or matured but, as LSH #13, LSH #38 among other issues prove, they have NEVER abandoned the dream, as awful as the environment was. That has ALWAYS been the point of the 5YG.

am i right in thinking that all the lightning saga legionnaires are MIA?