Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Official LSH 3 Worlds Thread #5 out (FINALLY!! - spoilers)

Reckless: Action Legion had incentives for alternate covers which were not the case on the post-Legion story (1 for every ten copies, in every issue). So that was probably the reason sales went up.

Can I speculate some more?

It seems clear to me they want to return LSH as a Superman franchise.
It has already been announced that the "triangle" strategy will be back to Superman books, affecting Supergirl prominently.
Dan also hinted that Shooter is on until the end of the year, which is when L3W ends. I doubt he will continue after being trampled by Johns.
Dan said SuperBOY-Prime will not die on L3W. So Superboy is back in the picture.
I am betting on a Superboy & LSH book, maybe even with that Chris Kent fellow I have no idea about. And tightly integrated to Superman continuity.

Ricardo:

I had not thought about the alternate covers increasing sales numbers, but that could account for a some of the increase.

As for Shooter, I only think it is fair to point out that we don't know how long he was contracted to work on LSH. Some of the more recent reports indicate that Shooter turned in his scripts well in advance, so he may have completed his contractual run. By the way, I was not suggesting Shooter would remain on a threeboot book in perpetuity. I just think he has significantly advanced the book in terms of characterizations and, in my mind, given the threeboot renewed vigor. But that clearly was not enough to attract new readers at this point. However, I fear that a new Superman LSH book will: (1) result in less focus on the Legion characters; and (2) a short-term increase in sales over the threeboot that results in loud trumpets from Dan Didio that the new book is a success (to be then followed by both a drop in sales to threeboot levels, silence from the DC execs about the new Legion compared to the threebood, and yet another attempt to revamp Legion in a few years).

Can you tell that I've grown rather cynical of DC's attempts to "fix" the Legion?

Given DC's current stop'n'goes as to what it really wants, I am quite sure Shooter got run over right in the beginning. Because what was supposed to be a big comeback was in about a month obscured by Action Legion. Not only that, but it seems everything that was "cool" about the LSH was happening OUTSIDE the book itself! Nobody mentions the current book! All interviews are all about L3W! What kind of support is that?

Oh: I've grown cynical myself since Legion on the Run. I really can't see LSH going further than TMK's. As Shooter says on his interview on the Legion Companion, LSH used to grow with people. Now it is just a bunch of colored costumes flying around. Sometimes it is well written (like right now - Shooter KNOWS his game), sometimes not.

I'm not very excited about a Superman/Legion book as well. I always thought - back in the late 70s / early 80s when I was a kid - that Superboy took too much screen time and overshadowed the Legion. I can't imagine an intelligent way of downwriting Supermans godlike powers all the time. Ultra Boy is powerful enough already...

Supermans character over the years has always been some kind of clean slate for me. Who is this guy? Do we really know? Do I really care? His ultimate boy scout personality always made me yawn, and I don't know how his character - which is always dictated by other editors from the other Superman books - could develop into any interesting direction...

That's why I was thinking if they ever got a Superboy & LSH, it could be with a totally different Superboy who would NOT become the current Superman, but rather live in the future. Either that, or bring them to the 21st Century and tie them all into Superman continuity.

You echo a thought Ive had for a while, Ricardo; place the next iteration of the LSH in Superman's era and accomplish two things at once.
Given 31stC. tech, many of the Legionnaires' powers can be countered and thus are not as amazing visually or storywise as they would be in our "primitive" time period.
Secondly, it makes it easier for DC guest stars to appear periodically and that can translate into additional sales.
I don't think DC will go this way, but the idea has merit and would certainly be a new kind of LSH.

That's a plan but what ideas on how it is made "Legion" and not just another team book with a stolen title?

and I don't know, but it's the "future" aspect that kind of makes it exciting, even if with the space tech shown in mainstream issues the difference can kind of blur.

Just placing it in the future for me (as a kid) implied there would be a future and that it was neater than what we presently had. I kind of like that aspect of LSH.

This is an issue I have thought about - a little. I like the idea of a world where super-powers aren't so overwhelming. Actually developing this world would require the writers to think about what defines a superhero in such a world. I haven't figured it out - but that's exactly why I'd love to read a comic that did! This is why I won't say "I should write the Legion". I have some ideas about how the Legion should be presented and what issues should be addressed, but I don't have all the answers.

Yeah, othewise known as L.E.G.I.O.N. A title that is way overdue its return.

I'd say a Superboy & LSH title is like 50% coming after L3W. A Superman & LSH title is 40% chance. Being set in the 21th Century is 20%.

Well, after TMK, I really don't think LSH can ever be remotely like the real thing to me. Chronology, maturity, experimentalism - it all mattered to be a book above the rest. Now it is simply a book set in the future.

Isn't it strange how they retconned Superboy-Prime to be from that story where a comic fan got powers, rather than the Superboy that the Time Trapper created on the pocket-earth? Well, I guess with Superman now having been a member, there couldn't have been a pocket earth (although that makes Matric Supergirl and Alexander Luthour a litle confusing). Also, Mon-El... is the one in the new Legion the one Superman met in the Action Comics Annual? If so, was there a Mon-El in Superman's Legion? So confusing!

That's not a retcon. Superboy Prime was created for the original Crisis on Infinite Earths Mini-series a few years before the Pocket Universe. The DC Prime Universe at that time was the real world (at least until it was destroyed in the crisis) Superboy Prime was from the DC Prime Universe.

When was Ultraa introduced? If I recall, didn't he come before Superboy-Prime, making him the first superhero from that world? And maybe also its first fictional character, thereby proving that Earth-Prime wasn't exactly our world?

Ultraa was introduced in Justice League of America #153 with a cover date of April 1978. That would have been a good six or seven years before Superboy Prime. If I remember correctly, the story had him leave Earth-Prime before he became well known.

Brrrrr.
Something else else about adding the Supers into the Legion doesn't feel so... right anymore. And no, it's not Kara's fault. She shined even better with the Legion, initially... the thing is that the times have changed, and people know a gimmick when they see one. Tada.

And doesn't everyone love plot device characters? Ultraa, Rol Putra, and "Prime Evil"? If it makes SB-Prime happy to be back 'our' Earth, whatever. He shouldn't stay a villain for that long... or alive, whichever is more accommodating, eh? He's like the sudden, editorial baby of the Progenitor, so his potential's reduced to this tie-in series. Fingers not crossed for him.

Johns and Perez gave a mini-interview about LO3W at Wizard. The only interesting bit was this (emphasis mine):

So much for speculation about a Superman and LSH relaunch in the foreseeable future. GJ has the desire but neither the time nor the editorial green light to do it -- much as I suspected -- and Perez isn't interested.

If Shooter is out of the picture too as rumors suggest, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if LO3W concluded with the cessation of monthly publication -- no ongoing LSH book in 2009/2010.

I would be extremely surprised if that was the case.

It would make no sense, especially because LSH is hardly a book on the verge of cancellation. It outsells Blue Beetle 3 times. LSH is not a cash cow, but it is a steady seller, like Robin or Nightwing.

I still think Johns is playing dumb. He will be deeply involved with the new LSH book after L3W. And, as I said, it will be linked to Superman books.

I would be very surprised with a Legion cancellation, especially right after a 50th anniversary year. They still have a small wave to ride from the Legion animation series, and the Legion spots with the JLA/JSA and in Action have been successful enough.

Look for a Superman & Legion title post L3W, but probably with a new creative team. (My personal vote would be to keep the current Shooter/Manapul team, book and characters ongoing, but that seems unlikely to happen).

I'm starting to think that it is more than just Johns who is playing dumb. I'm wondering if Shooter signed on with full knowledge that he was writing the final 3boot storyline. I think I heard before that he had a "final" Legion story he wanted to write. Maybe this is a concept that he had for long time, and was asked to retool it a bit for the WaK team knowing that it would be replaced by something else with the Legion of 3 Worlds tie in to the Final Crisis.

You are right about Shooter's desire in writing a final LSH story. He mentions it on the Legion Companion. He will be present at the San Diego Con - not unlikely to drop by the Legion panel. So people in there, please, ask him what is going on!

Geoff Johns - But I'd absolutely love to write a monthly Legion of Super-Heroes book. I really want to write a Superman and the Legion of Super-Heroes book.

AAAAARRRGGGHHHHHH! Who do I have to kiss/bribe/kill/maim/f*** to make this happen?!?

Add George Perez on covers and Gary Frank on art and you've got an instant Top 10 classic!

I hope you're listening Didio!

P.S. I'd be really fascinated if your theory turned out to be true Jerry. I kinda doubt it, but it would make me feel a little bit better about DC's 'perceived' shafting of Shooter if it turns out he's been building to a Threeboot ending all along.

Johns and Perez/Frank on a LSH ongoing? That shtick will still run out. One of the main, self-perceived AND self-proclaimed problems that has always dogged the Legion is that each "era" would soon overstay its welcome, paving the way of no apparent potential in subsequent storylines. At least that's what Waid says.


But I'm a bit intrigued by Geoff's 'reboot' talk... did he mean 'revamp'? Or more possibly... all three incarnations 'merged', in continuity/combined timeline?

How can something that has lasted 50 years be said to have overstayed it's welcome by any sense? Each "boot" except the on-going lasted at least a decade and art-writing teams are as durable as most books, a real accomplishment given the size of the team.

Johns and Perez/Frank on a LSH = "shtick?" I don't get that characterization. That's a pretty talented team. I'd imagine they'd come up with a story or two that would test time.

about Karate Kid and Trip Girl disappearing in recent issue - #43, I wonder how will that affect the L3W....because I see no Cosmic Boy on the front but KK and Trip are on the cover (and Sun Boy too)? I am curious how will that work. how long do we have to wait to get L3W #1 to arrive?