Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Let's talk about LSH #13...(spoilers aplenty)

I enjoyed the issue for its character development and many details which add to the current Legion universe.

However, as many others have mentioned, the various inconsistencies regarding Terror Firma were a big problem. It's conceivable that they could have stayed in the space outside S.P. and U.P. control, tried to evade capture - but why wouldn't the Legionnaires themselves have demanded some accountability? I'm with Cosmic Boy on this one: "you can't fold". At least Robotica repaired the property damage they did.

Having Sun Boy abandon the Legion for Terror Firma was an interesting development (not that I'm happy to see him go), but it really felt as if there were a bunch of pages missing in this story.

It does seem highly improbable to say the least that Sun Boy would cast his lot with Terror Firma after only a few minutes' consultation with them. . .

The (remote) possibility exists that Sun Boy's "defection" was a gambit to suss out the truth about the exiles and their civilization (if it can be called that). Saturn Girl's mind scan would seem to preclude this notion, but if she did discover an ulterior motive behind Dirk's decision to leave with the TF agents, she would have immediately understood the need to keep it sub rosa. Both Dirk and holo-Cos are briefly but conspicuously absent while the rest of the Legion finishes off the bad guys. Did the two have enough time to confer off-panel and cook up a quickie scheme before Dirk reappeared with TF? I dunno, it seems unlikely, but I wouldn't put anything past super-sneak Cos. He's already recruited four other Legionnaires to act as his spies.

The Terror Firma thing might have worked a lot better if we'd been given at least some hints as to their background/motivations earlier in the arc, and if there'd been something to more directly explain Sun Boy's defection. Why, if he's going to leave the Legion, we he choose this? There needed to be something in Terror Firma's story that he connected with, and, if there was, I didn't pick up on it.

I think I like Tromium's idea of a Dirk/Cos/Imra plan for Dirk to leave the team publicly and in front of Terror Firma, to investigate some mystery that we only know a tiny bit about. It would make sense for how these characters have been portrayed so far and the secretness of the Legion in general in the threeboot. It would also make sense for Lightning Lad to be in on it too.

The more I think about it, I would upgrade this theory to 'likely'.

I believe DC has done that for you.

If Dirk did leave to "spy" on them that would rock very much! But I doubt it.

There have been a lot of mind games throughout the series so far - the Public Service control on one side and Lemnos' interference on the other. So I'm never sure when somebody is behaving with or without influence.

For instance, why the sudden change in Terror Firma's behaviour - they say Lemnos claimed the Legion was on their side, but he tells them he wants Legion blood to flow (and they try to comply), then - suddenly - they refuse to fight. Was it because killing Legionnaires was too much - or did they somehow break free of some mind control?

It could be manipulation, but we -the readers - just get mired in confusion.

It may very well be that a cold blodded order to kill caused them to short circuit the mind control. much as you cant hypontise some one to commit suicide, maybe you cant really force someone to kill who is not already that way inclined? If Elysion had been there for instance I dont doubt he would have killed.

I just hope that it wasn't all just an easy cop-out.

It seems strange that Terror Firma all seemed to stop fighting at much the same time - no confused 'what's up?' questioning.

Was it all just hormones? You know what teenagers are like.

Sun Boy's behavior is interesting, and I trust that Waid will continue to develop him as a character.

As I recall, he says he doesn't want to be a "Legionnaire." Does anyone know what this means? As I ponder it, I think Dirk WANTS to be in charge of something, and he clashes with Cos's leadership style/objectives, so jumping into Lemnos's leadership vacuum with the remnants of Terror Firma makes some sense, as seemingly ad-hoc improvisational decisions go.

I remain non-committal on the wisdom of this strategy -- I STILL think Dirk has done this because it was his parents' idea that he be a Legionnaire rather than his. I hope, over the course of his story, he learns for himself that he SHOULD be in the LSH.

All I can say is, Waid and Kitson better not be abandoning the character out on the Galactic Rim. Sun Boy is TOO important a character to drop again.

It would be sad to see Sun Boy become no more than an occasional guest appearance in the series. He's been either an egotistical jerk or a faded background character since the Adventure days - this was the first portrayal of him that was likeable (for me).

The characters who have been developed so far have been distinctive and interesting. I don't think any of them have been changed for the worse; possibly Projectra (has she really lost her self-centredness?) but it's early days.

It's been good to see Saturn Girl lose a bit of her previous aloofness, both in this issue and the previous back-up story. She hasn't sacrificed any of her strength, but she seems able to reach out more to others on a personal level.

And Ayla - she'll always be my little twiglet.

Actually, I'm looking forward to seeing what happens to Dirk and the Work Force...

I still say make Dirk leader. It goes with the "this isn't the same old legion", he seems popular in this new reboot, and it seems like the middle road between Cos and Brainy.

I don't know anyone else has brought this up, but on the bottom of page 14 (if I counted right) Lemnos and the holo projection of Cosmic Boy are shown mouthing the same words. I'm just wondering what's up with that?

I thought that was odd as well. TF has the Legionnaires prisoner, Lemnos order them to kill the prisoners, they refuse, and Cos is upset? Kind of weird.

I took the Cos/Lemnos common speech as "my enemy/myself"; they're more alike than not. Different methods, same attitudes? Cos has certainly shown some tendencies to grab and use deception to keep power (as did B5). He seemed to assume that TF wanted out of the battle with no consequence, no punishment and was therefore irate. Cracking under pressure? Did Cos figure that their standing down meant the Legion automatically won? As soon as TF showed some hesitation, the Legionnaires should have gone on the offensive. However, it's not clear that TF expected to walk away without penalties; they just expressed a desire to stop fighting. Regardless, it's puzzling that Cos didn't put up more opposition to Sun Boy's move, as though TF were simply some kids with bad attitudes who need a big brother.

That whole part of the story - the final showdown with Lemnos & TF - remains a big sticking point for me. Even some details seemed illogical: at the point where Lemnos is escaping, Cos (from his perspective) is on the left, Dirk is on the right - so Cos tells Dirk to go left and he'll go right to chase Lemnos? It's the sort of detail that annoys.

TF getting off scott free reminds me of a legendary comic from years ago. When Phoenix destroyed an inhabited planet, the writers were originally simply going to have Professor X dampen her powers and then have her marry Cyclops and live happily ever after. Then the writers put on the brakes and said "Whoa!" That's not good enough. She has to pay a penalty appropriate for her crimes, so they pulled the original story and wrote a new one where she was killed instead.

Letting TF walk away after destroyiing an inhabited planet just doesn't cut the mustard and having a Legionnaire join them is adding insult to injury.

We don't know that they *are* getting off scot free. Did you see them leave? I didn't see them leave.

I'm not saying that we're going to have a big courtroom scene where Sun Boy pounds his fist on the table and pleads with the judge to have some compassion for the poor exiles, but it's not stretching things too much to imagine the Legion negotiating an outcome with the UP that's more creative than just chucking TF in jail and throwing away the cell. And if Sun Boy wants in on whatever that is, then that's his choice.

I was also puzzled by exactly what the point of Cos chasing Lemnos would be, anyway. He couldn't touch him or affect him in anyway, after all.

Yeah but he could chase him and be in contact with the Legionnaires the whole time. It would have been pretty hard to get away from Cos.

I didn't get the scene either. My own theory is they were still worried that Lemnos might be able to use his power to temporarily disorient a single team member.

I think Saturn Girl is countering Lemnos' by instituting with something like either data mirroring or parity checking with correction and not by blocking his power directly.

Solid point, but it was editorial edict (Jim Shooter's, I believe) that decided Phoenix should die, not the writers' decision. And in the original story, Jean was going to have her powers completely removed, not dampened -- kin, somewhat, to having one's eyes put out.

I do agree that Terror Firma needs to pay for genocide, SOMEHOW. Waid didn't let the White Triangle Daxamites off so easy...is he turning into a bed-wetting, soft-on-crime liberal with age?

But the White Triangle were evil adults. Terror Firma are counter culture cool kids!!!

I'll have to go back and read everything in one or two sittings, but my primary complaint at this point is that the plot was muddy and unclear from issue to issue. Maybe I'm just getting more obtuse in my old age, but Mark seemed to be assuming that we would pick up things or understand plot points that I just wasn't getting reading issues a month apart. I do have to say, however, that I still believe this Legion to be an improvement. Maybe a less ambitious arc, three or four issues, some nice subplots...