Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Let's talk about LSH #13...(spoilers aplenty)

This issue was a very big dissapointment. What kind of values are Wait and Kitson trying to set here? Terra Firma MURDERED an entire world, and nothing happens to them? Sun Boy runs off to join them?? This makes me sick.

What makes me sicker is the fact that Dream Girl was leading Brainiac 5 on? I was really getting into this story of Dream Girl and Brainy being together and now they pull the rug right out from under us. What a waste of time and energy.

It costs me $3.00 to buy this comic and I'm sorry it's not worth it. I'm about ready to quite buying again. I had such high hopes this incarnation and now I'm thinking of dropping it.

This was an uneven issue. The fight scenes were excellent, but there were some things in the issue that were just excessive, starting with the guy cut in half by the failed teleport. It's difficult to argue that the Legion Code was not violated in this issue. And I think I will have to just forget about the backup story and the page where Dirk announces his departure. But I was satisfied with the wrap-up to the war, and with the hints of future conflicts to come.

Luckily, if this issue was disappointing, there is (hopefully) just a two-week wait before the next one.

I wish there would be some artistic consistency, though. If Mark and Barry have trouble completing 32-pages a month, then I would rather have a lower page count than a revolving door of fill-in writers and artists. To put it a little more harshly, some of the recent backup stories have been worse than nothing.

I don't think she led him on.
People often flirt without having any serious intent of pursuing a relationship. And ladies do it far more often than guys (my personal experience, yours may vary).
Who knows, that plot point may not be dead yet. When Dream Girl is returned (I really think its when, not if) that may be the source of a good conflict. Brainy fights to bring Dream Girl back, and while grateful, she still doesn't have romantic feelings for him.

Dream Girl, Star Boy, and Brainy love triangle. That would be interesting.

I rather enjoyed this issue - there are a few plot threads still to be sorted - like Terra Firmas roles in the destruction of Orando, but on the balance of it I liked it.

Oh, just thought - who said killing (though we didn't see any directly in this issue) was against this Legiond code? I don't remember reading that anywhere - I took it in the first issue when they mashed the Lallorian army that this hinted at things being different this boot around. Maybe that's just me though

I don't think the Legion code against killing has ever been mentioned. I just wish the Legion would adhere to it anyway.

I just wish I'd had the numbers for the euro-lottery tonight in advance of the draw - #85,000,000!!!! Bloody Nora that's an obscene amount!

Still, life goes on eh?

Well their inspirational montage in issue 1 was, the Spartans at Thermopylae, Robin Hood?, Sgt Rock, Jesse Owens, and the JLA. I think that shows movement's view on killing is murky.

I understand that its kinda uncomic book like that they let TF away pretty soft as some have said. However its not like victorious armies punish the every enemy soldier who committed a war crime.

Heck they got the mastermind and the field commander which is pretty good as these things go judging from real life empirical evidence.

Hmm, good point. I'd still like their actions clarifed a bit better. And why Sun Boy feels it's acceptable to join them.

As for the killing, I really want to see the "no kill" policy back in place, but I have no problem with it not being established yet. It could make a good story.

I wasn't disapointed in this issue, but maybe my expectations were low. I wasn't happy to hear about the pacing changes over the last couple of months (first #12 is the conclusion, then #13, then #13 has a back up, then it doesn't, then it does again), I guess I just wasn't expecting a really strog ending.

As for Nura's back-up, I don't see that this puts an end to a possible Brainy/Nura romance. It's not unusual for a teenage girl to be interested in more than one guy. I think she probably put Brainy on the untouchable list. "I don't see it going anywhere." With Star Boy she sees a much more realistic chance of a normal relationship.

I was slightly disappointed that Vi only got a cameo this issue, but I can't complain much with the spotlight coming up in two weeks.

With the last couple of issues and the cover for #17, I have to say T-Wolf and Jeckie make a sexy couple, but not a very romantic one. Saturn Girls description ("hot and heavy") makes it sound more physical than emotional. Nothing too surprising about that given their ages, of course.

I think you're all being too hard on Mark Waid. Although the resolution of the story arc seemed a little too facile, I think he just might have a few surprises up his sleeve. In other words, I don't think the fat lady's sung yet.

As for the art, it wasn't Barry Kitson, but it was damn good. We're just spoiled. I urge you to go back and look at some of the stuff during the Abnett and Lanning run - it was awful. (Not Chris Batista, though - he was wonderful).

Sun Boy, come back! I dont' like that turn of events and I hope it's only temporary.

The best line of the issue goes to Chameleon when asked if he'd just yarked up the water guy. He said "You don't care to ponder the alternative." Do I have to explain....?

I think my favorite line was Jo yelling "Micro Lad!" That was utterly brilliant.

My other favorite line was "We're a warrior race. I'll set a plate."

Just read it. I am not as down on this issue as others. But the best description I heard thus far was uneven.

I got bored with this long plot long ago. The character interaction and Barry's art was the only thing keeping me going.

I'm a huge Legion fan and it's near in the middle of my comic stack to read.

The art wasn't vintage Barry but it was adequate. We have been spoiled by Barry. I just thought the issue was very bland. The dialogue of the members sometimes just feels forced sometimes. When Waid tries to make them sound teeny.

Couldn't Lemnos erase Sunboy's memory? I don't get Sunboy leaving to join this group at all? First off Sun Boy wasn't in the previous Legion incarnation much. This new one quickly has become a fan fave and now he's gone? They keep telling us this is a DIFFERENT Legion well make someone else leader. Cos being the "natural leader" of the team is played out. I just thought that between Cos and Brainy fighting Dirk would step up. I don't get how there is basically a war and Terror Firma just walks away?

I like many elements of this Legion but that is about it. DC may be spoiling us with all their great comics they've been putting out lately. I really hope from a change of gears soon. The Legion CAN be successful...they can. Don't blame the characters or the setting.

The GOOD things I liked? Timberwolf and Starboy giving strategy right before Terror Firma attacks. Garth calling Ayla his sister(finally). The letter page was pretty funny! Polar Boy. And the reason I like the letter page is we learn more about some of the characters there than in the story. But the Legion has had a history of giving us member info in the back pages.

Nah, the fat lady's sung on this arc. Waid's still one of my favorite active comic writers, and I'll at least give anything with his name on it a spin. That may be part of the problem - I don't really expect good stories from Mark Waid, I expect great stories. This was an okay story. Not the worst Legion story I've ever read by a longshot, but not the best either. I hope someday we all find out what really happened with this arc behind the scenes; I think there's a lost story there.

I'd actually like to sit down and read through the whole first story arc, now that it's complete, and review it as a whole. Maybe next weekend...

Okay, let's look at this again. Out of an army of 10,000 only 7 walked away. Out of the original TF, 3 of them got a pass. The only reprieve I have a strong objection to is Kynda (fire girl). Semi said it right, the resolution was too facile and Cosmic Boy and Sun Boy were naively stupid to be moved by the "oppressed people" bit. But in the end it was no harder to swallow than seeing the Progeny, Robotica or the Credo go free after their leaders were disposed of. It was the coda of the story, not the crux of it. The battle itself was a satisfyingly good show, imo, and Brainy (at least) is not finished with Lemnos.

Unfortunately, it's diverted attention from the most exciting development - Sun Boy's new career as the anti-Cosmic Boy. Space paranoia, mutiny and love with robot manhunters. This could be big.

I liked that the resolution showed coordinated fighting and neat character bits. I don't think it was the strongest chapter of the story...I loved Amanda Conner on the letter page art!

Well, my comments were aimed more at the editor (and the inker) than Barry. True, the cover didn't grab me, but I was more displeased with Mick Gray's inks on Barry's work. They weren't bad, but they weren't as good as previous inkers' efforts.

Same here. As mentioned before, Mark is doing a decent job with characterization and twist -- though sometimes he is writing too heavy-handed. The Lemnos/Terra Firma thing just failed to captivate me at every level. Terra Firma was just a "fill-in-the-blank" super villain team. We've seen many, many elementally-powered villains before, so their characterizaton would have been the only thing that set them apart. Unfortunately, there wasn't any characterization in the team.

Someone mentioned that Barry did breakdowns. I'd have to check the credits. I just don't think Mick Gray is a good choice to ink Barry. Barry's art works better with a cleaner smoother embellishment. Mick Gray has more of a sharper/grittier line...which looks awesome on some pencillers ... but flattened Barry's work.

Barry just did the layouts - it's the first thing I looked at when I saw the credits becuase the art looked off. It's a shame we couldn't have Barry on pencils for the climax of this long storyline.

The issue wasn't bad, but the only reason I wasn't disappointed was because my enthusiasm for this title has been waning for some time now. I think the biggest failure was in really capturing the epic scope that the story was trying to tell. Somehow it just didn't come across for me by the end. And honestly, as many soldiers as Lemnos had, are we supposed to believe each "away team" capable of taking over an entire world??

I keep reading that Sun Boy has "joined Terror Firma", but it looks to me like he's taking these misdirected kids under his wing. I hope we find out that some of them are indeed little sociopaths that require more redemption than leadership.

I enjoyed the snappy battle patter and the Letters Page was EXCELLENT (Amanda Connor should be the ONLY backup artist this book uses, please! I want her around as much as possible!!).... Val and Tasmia looked FAB!!


But, sorry WaK, this just isn't cutting it.

It's all already been said: getting off scot-free after genocide, no shining moment of vengeance for Projectra, Sun Boy the Benedict Arnold, etc.

At least Dreamy is still alive, if she needs Lemnos to "save her". There has to be life there to save. You know that comic-booky "infintismal teeny-weeny itty-bitty last fading spark" of life.

I didn't mind her interest in Star Boy. She and Brainy aren't married.... yet.

Can we have an all-letters page issue, written by Mark & Barry and drawn by Amanda? THAT would space-rawk!

Only if we get two issues that month.

So, having read these comments since Wednesday, and only just now having finished reading book, I have one thing to say.

What is wrong with you guys?!?!??!

I respect your opinions, but really.

After being ignored by the United Planets, and against an overwhelming force, the Legion (and I do mean the Legion, because they all contributed) managed to stop an interplanetary war, capture several of the worst war criminals in sentient history, begin to discover a new mystery about the origins of Lemnos's army of the disposessed, and unite all the underagers of the galaxy in transcendent moment of inspiration and leadership. In short, we see the Legion fulfilling its mission as a movement. This looks to me like one of the most brilliant victories since Henry V routed the French at Agincourt, for Christ's sake. (Again, my apologies.)

Along the way, we have great super-hero action, suspenseful swings in who has the upper hand, and FAN-bloody-TASTIC characterization by Mark and Barry. In short, you all are a bunch of whiners (I mean that in the best possible way.)

As to your specific complaints:

I think Mick did a splendid job finishing Barry's breakdowns and preserving Barry's wonderful character designs. The art was great, even if Barry's full pencils would have been even greater.

It seems very clear to me that the remnants of Terror Firma and Lemnos's army are intentionally being left stranded until the Science Police, or someone else, figures out what to do with them. Cosmic Boy makes clear that they are NOT off the hook for genocide. He merely realizes that their story -- surprise! -- is more complicated than we realized. And Sun Boy decides, for his own fricking selfish reasons, to hang around and see if he can make something of the outlaws. Lemnos and Elysion are in custody. And, the story isn't over.

As to a sense of anticlimax, I completely disagree. The Legion defeated a vastly larger foe. They captured, and humbled, the arch-villain. And they did it by being Legionnaires, that is, by being really smart, really determined, really courageous and really inspiring. I would argue that a direct victory by force would have been less interesting and less plausible. I would humbly remind you that a previous Legion defeated another dark-sided bad guy in much the same way, to much acclaim from all, me not the least.

Finally, let's review some of the many highpoints:

- Cookie sheet?
- THIS is anti-gravity!
- By the way, is it my imagination, or is there a giant, winged dragon fighting on our side?
- Is it more important than, say, not leaving my friends to die in a brawl with psychopaths?
- Micro Lad!
- Here's another: Good thinking, Ultra Boy.
- So you're planning on a water landing, then?
- Or I swear by the stars in their foundation...
- You'd figure he could take a punch.
- But at least I have... What's the word I'm looking for...? ...Integrity.
- The dying snark of a pathetic soul who'll go to ground forgotten.
- Where's my sister?
- Didn't anybody tell her this was a suicide mission?
- You don't get many dates, do you?
- Oh, EWWWW.
- Because I notice he wasn't screaming "Saturn Girll! Not that I would WANT that, of course.
- Last one! Who wants him? Ultra Boy! Damn right!
- You don't care to ponder the alternative.
- Hey, twinkletoes! You hurt?
- Who do you think? Single file, and don't DAWDLE.
- Don't forget that feeling of courage that gives you. We're going to need it.
- Save her.

Wow, I typed practically the whole book. Know why? It was freakin' awesome, that's why! Long live the Legion!

I'm down with that.

The biggest problem for me in this entire story arc was the lack of CROWD CONTROL. First we're introduced to an already formed Legion....than there is the crowd of little "l" legionnaires hanging about...plus a full group of new super-villains, Terra Firma and let's throw in a huge army to boot.

Than let's give everybody brown hair.

Trust me I want to love this book.

As rjbrande said I also expect great things. WaK are pretty big names and when I see people say the sales are pretty good on this? Are you kidding me? With a WaK creative team numbers should be much higher.

The thing is THIS WAS THE OPENING STORY OF A NEW BOO K FOLLOWING A REBOOT!!! I also saw a heavy hand on many aspects of this title and it doesn't flow smoothly.

The next few issues look very exciting. I still have hope.

Exactly!!!

Waid really put his foot in his mouth by claiming that this book would be at the top of the charts within a few months. To do that, this series would have to be comparble to Ultimates. But it's not.

Simply put, the arc for the first year just isn't absorbing reading. Sure, there were some great moments -- love issues 1, loved the Triplicate Girl issue. Really liked issue 12 (really, this should have ended the arc).

Terror Firma is just too generic a group to root against. Seems like they should have been polished off long, long ago!

And this whole teenagers -- good, adults -- bad, just isn't working.

Finally, just because Waid grew up reading the Silver Age Legion doesn't mean everybody else has. He really should have presented a better mix of Silver AGe, Bronze Age and even new characters in the first year. I don't mind that some characters have changed skin color or hair color. I don't mind that some relationships have changed, but I don't want to see interesting characters from the past wasted.

Really hope we see Wildfire, Dawnstar, and yes -- even Chemical King and a new take on Bouncing Boy (call him Rebound -- and give him the ability to negate attacks and a ricochet ability).

Bringing in Supergirl is bound to attract some attention -- so let's not waste it guys.