Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Let's talk about LSH #13...(spoilers aplenty)

I think that what really annoys me is that I get the feeling that when this arc was planned, there was a really good, interesting and compelling Legion story to be told, but that somehow it didn't come out nearly as well in the execution. That's still miles better than what we were getting before, since I felt most of DnA's stuff should've been thrown out in the planning stage, but it's not nearly as good as what we should be getting.

I grew up reading the Silver Age, but I'd love to see some of the 70's and 80's additions too. I expect we will. Just be patient. And of course, I'd love to see matter Eater Lad and Bouncing Boy back in full glory, goofy names intact. Sure, enhance their powers to make them useful, but don't mess with the names. (I personally hated the second generation names of the Legion like Apparition, Spark, etc.) Sure the old names are goofy and unlikely, but there's something to be said for respecting the history.

I hope Supergirl has about the same role she had in the Silver Age -- occassional guest star, and nothing more. And please bring back the pocket universe Superboy, and while you're at it, bring back his adventures in Smallville.

There, I'm finished.

Agreed.

Yeah there were about 3 issues that I loved. It really has potential but as EDE said...execution wasn't there.

I disagree here. Sure they have the generic elemental powers stuff but I loved them personally! Character wise they are pretty interesting. Hope to see them explored more.

Well I just don't think the teenager thing is essential part of the Legion. Even if it was the way Waid went about it was/is too heavy handed. People who love the legion as teens are sick of hearing the underager stuff.

I really hope the Dawnstar, Tyroc, Blok thing is not a gimmick but I think it will be. That cover gained more attention than Supergirl even. I highly doubt Barry would have those three join the Legion in those OLD costumes.

But as much I can't stand BB or MEL I would gladly take them if I can get some of my faves!

I honestly wonder if IC pushed things back extending this story. Cause I think in the next 3 to 4 issues we may get a bombshell. I keep thinking of that Cos flashback.

I'm with doublechinner on this issue and the 13-part arc. I've just reread all 13, and really enjoyed it. Maybe it's an age thing, but I liked the pacing, and didn't have any trouble with the resoluton of issues in 13.

Does anyone else think it's Dream Girl's eye and finger on 14's cover ... or an I just a fool of an optimist?

It's obvious Dream Girl is coming back. Why else is she still making an appearance. I don't see a problem with her having Star Boy in her vision. Just because she thinks she has feelings for him, doesn't mean that it's going to be reciprocated. I think it would be hilarious that a shmuck like Star Boy actually turns down a hottie like Dream Girl. It would be comical to see a Brainy-chasing Dream Girl-chasing Star Boy storyline.

I concur with another poster. Was this issue that horrible? It is comics, folks. It's my light entertainment. One of my best friends long thought The Legion would never last as long as it has. This incarnation has sparked my interest in my favourite group in a way that I haven't felt in a looong time and I've been following Legion for over 20 years!

I'm just trying to voice a positive spin on the issue. I think Barry is reading these posts and I think he should be privy to a more balanced opinion by fans over this issue. Sometimes I think as some of us comic readers get older, the more cynical and curmudgeony we get and start becoming those "old-agers" that Waid is writing about.

So for the record, Barry, I loved this issue and I always can't wait for the next issue. But please bring back Dream Girl sooner than later.

I think Dream Girl will return too. They aren't going to drag out her possible revival for 3+ issues and then say, sorry, we couldn't do it.

I'm wondering if they aren't possibly planning to have her death make her more powerful. Maybe she'll return as a Spectre-like character.

A couple of things didn't make sense to me in this issue, re dating. They've portrayed dating as a thing of the past and most of the Legionnaires don't even know what's involved. In light of that, Shadow Lass's "You don't get many dates" comment makes no sense. Also, Dream Girl says in the backup that she's never really dated a boy because they're so predictable that they always do the same things and it always turns out the same way. If she's never dated anyone, how does she know this?

Jim,

I think dating experience varies greatly by Legionnaire. Yes, Triplicate Girl and Element Lad were clueless about it, but that seems explained by their historical/cultural circumstances. Phantom Girl dates on Bgztl, and does group-date like things with Legionnaires on Earth.

For the record, I think this story arc was too long, as well, given the amount of actual narrative content in it. I think it should have wrapped up by #10, personally. I, too, am eager to explore the fascinating new takes on these beloved characters. I am ready to wet my pants over Supergirl, and I can't even stand the Loeb/Turner Supergirl.

To some extent, I don't feel like holding Waid and Kitson responsible for what seems like an irresistable industry trend toward ridiculously drawn out storylines. Like most everyone else posting here, I too am annoyed that Waid shot off his mouth about character-driven, self-contained stories but quickly seemed to fall into the industry norm.

Having said all this, I really do love the back-up stories, and am almost willing to tolerate a strung-out main plot for them. They are a strong tradition in Legion history for a very good reason -- with a cast of characters this large, back-ups play an essential role in helping new readers learn about the characters more quickly. I have been very impressed by the creative teams on the back-ups. As with some of Alan Moore's work, I hope we have a growing list of comics creators who want to play with Waid and Kitson's toys. I hope we don't completely lose back-ups with the shorter page count.

I'm sure plenty of guys have flirted with Nura in the past. In issue #2 she knew how to handle the two pre-cog commandos whose eyes were fixated on her boobs. She doesn't need to have dated a guy to know what goes on in their minds.

Shady's comment to Val was ironic, I think. My impression was he's never had a girl touch him before, much less been on a real date (and Shady knows it). That said, ignorance of obsolete Earth dating rituals is no barrier to developing a crush, falling in love or even burning beds, as we've already seen.

I'll also miss the backups if they go away. Three of the five were about romance, and even if you don't care for the particular couples portrayed in the stories, I think the Legion does need more romance.

RE: Sun Boy and Cosmic Boy


Sun Boy made a couple of guest appearances in the last reboot but never joined the Legion. Now in this boot, he's dumped after only 1 year. I don't get this. He's always been a fan favorite and his powers are much more versatile and potent than many of the others who didn't get the axe. What do the creators have against him?

I'm also sick of Cosmic Boy as the perpetual leader. This version has a major stick up his ass too. Bring back the reader elections I say.

I like very much the interaction Imra-Jeckie, they can be a great powerhouse in this new Legion.
Poor Dirk again out of the Legion... Maybe all the writers hate this character?
One time they killed him.
Another time in Legionnaires he's a totally jerk!
And finally in the reboot he's only 2 0r 3 issues, and let the poor guy without powers.
The girl Inferno, must die in Infinite Crisis I think. Because she's from the reboot group.
Talking about reboot in Infinite Crisis 4 Bart Allen dissapear in the speed force. Good! (If we don't have XS....) And Wally with Linda and the twins too (the future Tornado twins?)
And in other hand, don't like the flashback with Nura saying she's put her eyes on Star Boy (these guy is not Star Boy, is only a goofy imitation)What is his name? Thom o James?
Bring back the real Thom Kallor!
Tyroc is coming! And so...kill Star Boy.

Ouch Empress! that was a cold shot. I would hope that Waid and company would write Tyroc and Star Boy as different individuals. and there should be room for both on the team.

I really like the series so far. It has been a little slow here and there, but for the most part I'm enjoying it. I've never read the Legion before this current series, so maybe I don't know any better. As far as Supergirl goes, I can't wait. She's what this series needs to 'glue' the LOSH to the rest of the DC Universe.

Or do the radical step of making Thom a white boy again and give him a buzz cut or something...altho highlighting Legionnaires with different skin pigmentation (Shady, Brainy, Cham, Val, etc) does breach the colour barrier which was such a sore point back in the 70's...

I'm in complete agreement. Heck, isn't the 70s and 80s Legion the one that sold the best? I know the Silver Age one did okay, but most articles state that it as the 70s comics that made it a fan favorite. Readership waned towards the end of the 70s, then Levitz and Giffen brought fans back in the early 80s.

I never really looked at the Legion as teeny-boppers in these stories. I would guess they were college-aged.

I'm glad that they appear to be older/more mature than the Archie Legion. Frankly, I don't want to read about 13 year-olds having sexual relationships, etc. --even if it is 1,000 years in the future.

Martingray posted this over at the DC Board, and I think it is an excellent summation of the first 13-issues:

Mark and Barry, please make a note of this. I do like this Legion better than the previous version, but we need better villains and to forget all of this political movement stuff -- or at least, tone it down and make it more believable.

I think the underager was an attempt by Waid to explain why this team of superheroes are only young kids. It started out as a group/club. Also the movement helped explain why they are a "Legion" while the core group are "super-heroes".

All this is consistent with it being essential that they are teens.

I'm all for the college age thing (as many of you are sick of me saying). That's the age where young adults really start to question, etc. Plus yes subjects that may be controversial at 17 are not at 18, etc.

As for why the young kids are super-heroes? The same reason Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, and a ton pro tennis players are better than the people they play. The members of the Legions are exceptional. Be it their powers, their intelligence, skills, talentts, etc.

It will be interesting how WaK evolve this Legion. Cause they do need it. Trust me I'm for leaving characters the same forever...but not Legion at this stage.

I feel like I've arrived at a crossroads with this book. For the past 6 months, I've considered it the sleeper on my list, rarely earth-shaking but always intriguing, rich in characterization (I particularly love WaK's versions of Shadow Lass, Brainiac, Projectra, and Light Lass) and with a direction that is the closest thing since the end of the Levitz Era to what I feel the Legion should be like. Reading the TPB with the early issues I missed only made me admire the book even more, as everything now fit together so beautifully and had such a feeling of confidence to it.

But now, for the first time since my initially mixed reaction to # 7, the first issue I read, I'm actually considering the possibility of not reading this book any longer. I feel that # 13 was an abrupt and flat ending which makes the previous issues now look like a long fuse to a firework which never detonated.

What I really hope is that Waid and Kitson take all this criticism from myself and others in this thread and apply it to future issues. I think perhaps the scale of the story in these first 13 issues grew a little too much, considering that we are getting to know these characters and the time in which they live. What might work is to have a few (or at least a couple) stories of more modest scale, gradually building to something much bigger but taking the amount of time needed, so as to avoid the same dissapointment as before.

Since Kitson is a member of this forum, I want him to know that he and Waid are among my favorite creators and that the thought of taking away my support for their book is not an easy one. I have stayed loyal to it and defended it against a lot of the criticism it's received. I still have faith in WaK, and although it's wavered, it's still holding. So I hope that as the book moves on, it will improve, and the dissapointment of # 13 will become nothing more than a footnote.

Very well-stated Stealth.

I think most of us who log-in and post here are conveying constuctive criticism, because we really do want the book to succeed.

I also feel that both Mark and Barry are more than capable of making improvements on this book.

The first 13 months had highs and lows. While it is unfortunate that this arc ended on a rather bland note, now is a good time to evaluate what has been done, and what needs to happen to make this book a real fan-favorite again.

I enjoyed #13 and the entire arc. The characters are much deeper than they ever were in the previous 2 runs. Sorry if your attention spans don't last more than 3 issues, but maybe that's why they eliminated hanging story lines in the DC superhero cartoons.

Also, it doesn't take a 12th level intellect to realize that things got drawn out by at least an issue due to the Crisis maxi-series. But that's the way it goes these days, deal with it. This run has been enjoyable and the people who I've floated my copies by (who never read the series before), like it.

If you're sick of LSH, go re-read your Doom Patrol issues to remind yourself of what a truely bad series consists of.

Gary, Scooter, can we have a DOOM PATROL forum?

I have the last 6 issues of Doom Patrol still sitting in a pile on the floor in my den waiting to be read. I just can't bring myself to spend an hour or two of my life doing it. I really need to cancel that series.

As for the Legion's 13 month story arc - Mark and Barry set up a lot of subplots and situations that will be fun to explore over the next year. Dream Girl, what happened on Orando, Sun Boy and Terra Firma, Violet's adventures in whereever she was, Co's situation on Braal, and the list goes on. One lacklustre issue is certainly not going to dissuade me from the Legion.

doublechinner,

Thanks for taking the time to put up such a well thought out most. I agree with you almost 100%.

Loved the 1st 13 issues, story & especially art. Consistently great cover after great cover. As a whole they make a great run.

Really looking forward to where things go from here. Based on the covers alone, the next 4 issues look fantastic & interesting. I mean come on, Vi, Dawny, Blok, Tyroc, Supergirl, and the return of . . . . . who else!

LLL!

LLLater!

Sheesh...Dream Girl is "dead" and Sun Boy's left the team. Are my two all-time favorite Legionaires gone for good??

Still enjoying the book though!

I guess I find the new Legion to be essentially beautiful in look but disturbing in concept.

The idea that the majority of adults in the known galaxy are all conspiring to keep the children in a subjugated stupor of sameness is horrifying to me.
The lack of trust and anti-family sentiment is almost criminal in the damage it could do to young readers.
imo
oh well.

i totally agree with you.
and let me repeat something i already said in this topic: as seen in issue 13, this legionnaires KILL, and they do it easily.