Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Legion of Super-Heroes Sales Figures

I agree that they have interesting possibilities.

The Kryptonian part bothers me less than the reincarnation, doomed soulmates part, though.

But maybe, Carter and Kendra will stay dead as heroes until the next generation of babies grows up.
The doomed cycle thing should at least, be limited to one couple at a time in the DCU, I think.

LOL

Drip. Drip. Drip.

It's been two years and a few months since the statues in the fortress appeared in "The Lightning Saga". This officially connected the post crisis Superman with an approximation of the pre crisis Legion. This is the magic formula that was going to restore the heart of the Legion, return it to the status of being the best selling team book (as it was in the 60' s - as has been repeatedly pointed out), and make any of us who dared enjoy a Superboy less Legion story in the last 20 odd years hang our heads in shame and finally see the light.

Rather than capitalizing on the idea, Didio is still giving ambiguous statements at conventions, and oh, by the way, adding that the large cast is another reason that the Legion doesn't sell.

Nobody really ever had to convince the the core 25K that adding a Superman or Superman Family connection is a good idea. We will gladly buy it. To everything there is a season. Bring it back. Bring it on. We're ready.

But we still just get the drip, drip, drip. Oh, it's a build up? That's the ticket. No need to rush into the gold mine. It'll be worth even more if we tease it out across the DC universe for a couple more years. Drip. Drip. Drip.

I wouldn't say that is the magic formula, I don't think merely connecting it to the Superman Family is enough. I mean I don't think people have been saying, damn, if only this were connected to the Superman Family I might buy it, for the last 20 years. Anymore than they are saying, I could enjoy this if only it fit with the Silver Age continuity and made sense. These are personal issues more than sales ones, at least that's what I felt, and there too many variatons on what Legion fans don't like to ever please us all on that one....for example, some fans do want the ties restored but without Suprman actually being a part of it regularly.

I say putting Superman, back in the Legion, and doing more time travel stories, and covers with him contrasted with that large cast, is the magic formula for getting new readers, Supergirl too...and that's not really what they are doing now.

There's no doubt it works better than just throwing the Legion out there to stand alone...I mean so far this Legion hasn't had an audience of less than 55k and that's substantially better than any Legion title has sold for more than few issues since the early part of the 5YG. Close to double the sales in fact.


Is that really necessary? I mean it hasn't been cancelled/rebooted/relaunched umpteen times because of the fans that want to see Superman back in the Legion.


And the fans that do like Superman in the Legion have just as much right to see what they want to see as the fans that don't...espcially since they are the ones that have been waiting 20 years to see it.


The book doesn't just belong to the fans that don't like Superman, and Superman alone is not the reason obscure lad and unknown boy don't get more meaningful moments.


It's not a case of wanting to see anyone hang their heads so much as it is wanting the title to stop being treated as a red headed step child, and sales are the best way to accomplish that.


And they are well aware of that, I've bet they've got us pencilled in to the Adventure sales projections.

They know we'll buy anything with the name Legion on it....it's all that people that don't buy it they are concerned with.


If that 25k was something DC vaued, the Legion would not be getting the red headed step child treatment for going on 20 years now. And the 3boot and reboot and 5YG would not have been cancelled or rebooted.


I don't feel that what DC is doing is something any Legion fan is clamoring for....

I mean, they aren't exactly putting Superman or Superboy(Kal-el) back in the Legion as a regular character. I doubt he's going to be appearing in these Legion stories in Adventure.

IT's going to again be a Supermanless Legion, albeit one with ties to Superman.


Nor do I see any Legion fans that actually want a backup status for the Legion, I certainly do not. And I don't like Kon-El either.


They've basically put Kon in the classic Smallville setting and sort of put the classic startup formula for the Legion in place, right down to the Legion being featured prominently in Superman's own book. But one thing they are not doing regularly now is putting the big red S alongside the Legion.


Why? It's sold 55k and no less....

Johns being on a title pretty much guarantees an audience of 40k....Conner was about a 30k per month character, the Legion is about a 25k per month team.


The only things that makes sense are that Johns is going to relaunch it(and he's clearly too busy to do that right now), they are trying to relaunch the Legion as it was originally launched, and or they are waiting for the Superman litigation to resolve.


If anyone has any better explanations, I would love to hear what they are. It's not because they don't think it will sell...Johns writing it pretty much guarantees a better selling Legion than the 3boot, whether they have recaptured the magic formula or not.

From that sort of logic, Superboy, JLA should be selling about a million copies when it was under Meltzer, or Jurgens. And JSA should be cancelled outright, because there is not a single big gun there and the cast is ridiculously gigantic.
Sorry, I don't buy it. And 5YL was cancelled years after Keith Giffen left the book. And it wasn't going bad at all - he was removed by editorial screw-ups who wanted the Legion to be "back" - we saw what happened: Legion on the Run.

Hmmmm...I don't see the connection. The JLA sells extremely well inspite of being IMO, pretty much the worst flagship book DC produces.

And it was DC's best selling title when Metzler was writing it(and I personally thought it sucked).

It is, now and has been(pretty much since the Legion declined) the DC title that sells the best with the absolute least amount of effort.

Dan Jurgens is a name and pretty good character creator when cut loose, and an extremely under-rated artist, but he's not a big draw on name alone, and never has been.

DC has two big name draws right now, Grant Morrison and Geoff Johns.

JMS is arguably another, but we'll see. I have a feeling this Red Circle thing is going to be a total bust.


Ahh, but you see, the JSA was a massive failure for a long long time. Geoff Johns is the guy that made it successful(and James Robinson got the ball rolling to a lesser extent), and the book is already losing readers since he left.

Willingham and Sturges aren't automatic draws as writers.


Are you saying Johns is the guy that could sell the Supermanless Legion?

I have a feeling he's going to attempt just that...and I think it's against his better judgement.


But let's just say we get a Legion with the Superman ties restored, but without Superman, written by Johns...do you honestly think it's going to fare well once Johns leaves?


Ricardo, I can sit here and pick up a book, the Legion Companion, and read Giffen's own words, along with those of the Bierbaum's and see it directly contradicts much of what you claim.

The main thing being that Giffen was removed. He wasn't removed, he quit the book.

And he was the guy that was going to bring the original Legion back, the Silver Age Legion no less...that was the purpose of the SW batch. It was one of the things he most wanted to do.

Just out of curiosity...why don't you agree on the third point? The one about the two titles?

The first two reasons you don't agree with I probably have figured out but the third one mystifies me, and you aren't the first Legion fan I've heard say that.


I don't understand why any Legion fan would be against that...


And as for where BB called me Prime, I guess you just had to be there. I'll just say he seemed to be pretty pleased with himself for coming up with that one.

I'm not against multiple Legion publications and I prefer less of Kal El, rather than more.
I'd just use different criterian for the books than 'diehards' and 'mainstream aimes'.

Quote

And as for where BB called me Prime, I guess you just had to be there. I'll just say he seemed to be pretty pleased with himself for coming up with that one.

I hope you found it funny, too.
I didn't think of the idea as a put down to you.

Your reference to being called 'Prime' reminded me of my boys going at it and one of them blurting out something that broke them both up laughing.

That's pretty muuch what they usually say, but I don't think it's fair to fans that like Superboy being in the Legion and it's part of the reason I tend to lean on the militant side in defending the position. A very vocal segment of Legion Fans does not like Kal-El and this has been the case nearly as long as the Legion has been around. I never spoke up about it much when they first removed him, this time I figure I better make sure DC knows some fans do like him, even if we aren't the typically most vocal and most active segment of the base.

I'm not opposed to any version of the Legion being given a chance to succeed. I'd applaud it if DC concurrently trotted the 5YG, the Post Crisis, the Reboot, 3boot, Johnsboot, and of course my own favorite the Pre Crisis, up against one another and may the best groups continue their publication. If it's not the one I want to see, so be it, at least I'll know it got a chance to actually fail.


I guess I can see your point there.


It was funny, I just figured it had a lot to do with my "probably everything" response.


The funniest thing is not me being called Prime though, the funniest thing is that I took the name Superboy in the first place. If you ever saw my usual posting demeanor when I'm not at LW, well let's just say Prime would be a much more accurate choice

Actually, I liked Superboy.
I just think that he tended to dominate the Legion stories he appeared in.
Rather like Brainiac 5 does now.

So, you're a tougher costomer everywhere else that you post?!

Oyyyyy!

And that's why I suggest two books, one with him, one without. That's why I can't see why anyone would really disagree with that, it's the solution that gives pretty much every Legion fan what they want, as well as brings in new readers.

And I do think that whole, other characters need to be developed or featured every issue, is something that can hurt the appeal...

It definitely is something that is fair of course, and it's something that sounds really good, but is actually doing it something that really makes for an entertaining book?

I'm not really thriled with the entire idea of spendign a lot of time on character development in a book featuring 25 other characters. That definitely seems more the area of back up features or a secondary spotlight title. Or for a skilled writer to do it on the fly in th emiddle of a story. Rather than focusing on that for a story.

For example Star Trek, imagine if intead of focusing on Data, they focused on crewman X...that's not really what people want to see or what gets them to watch, even if it does sound good on paper and is something that appeals to the every night base that are frankly bored with the main characters being featured every espisode.

Not all Legionnaires are equal...and not all of them deserve the same amount of spotlight, even if it does seem fair and sound good.

I don't want to see every character in the Legion developed simultaneously. I actually like there being members I know nothing about...

It probably took me two years after seeing Wildfire in a tabloid before I ever actually read a story with him featured prominently or learned his origin and powers, and then after I learned it all he became a much less interesting character to me.


Just because the fans want to see every character fleshed out and developed is no reason to give it to them. At least not right off the bat. And the Legion at it's best had a certain mystique due to it's large cast and existing in the far flung future....

I don't think Superboy should overshadow the Legion, and I don't think he should be featured every issue, but I do think he is the biggest star character the book has ever had so there should be a strong association between him and this book. Or they need to get another marquee character, and none of the other Legionnaires really fit that bill of marquee character.


I wouldn't say tough, I'd just say I do a lot more of channeling my innerangryfanboy...this place is a celebration of the entire Legion and so I try to respect that and keep things in the spirit Nightcrawler and the other founders envisioned for this board. I don't always do a good job of that, because I actually enjoy arguing more than anything else you can do on a message board, but I sincerely do make an attempt to.

Diamond has released their sales charts for August. I'll wait until the ICV2 estimates to post the numbers, but Adventure #1 came in at position # 30, and based on the books around it, I'd guess it came in pretty close to the same numbers Legion of Three Worlds #5 had. We'll see in the next few days.

August Sales estimates are up at ICV2 and as guessed the numbers are in the 56K range. I'm leaving the Lo3W numbers up for comaprison.

Now the fun part: Second issue drops are notoriously big, and with the creative team already announced to be changing and a BN crossover and ring promotion thrown in, sales should be quite erratic the next few months.

08/2008: Lo3W #1 -- 68,306, #20 out of 300 [73,914]
10/2008: Lo3W #2 -- 64,412, #23 out of 300
02/2009: Lo3W #3 -- 61,358, #15 out of 300
04/2009: Lo3W #4 -- 56,888, #28 out of 300
07/2009: Lo3W #5 -- 55,970, #29 out of 300

08/2009: Adventure Comics #1 -- 56,706, #30 out of 300

For what it's worth:

v5 #1 sold 59,944 copies.

Yes sir. I didn't want to clog the post with the threeboot numbers, but if anyone's interested, the entire run is listed in this post here: http://www.legionworld.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000634;p=25#000363

So the question becomes, can adventure hold the line better than v5?

EDE - by v.5 do you mean the Giffen/'5 Year Gap' volume?

If so, that little nugget of info you posted is very surprising to me. I thought it was conventional wisdom that the sales levels of all comics today are a few hundred thousand copies less than where they were back in the 80s/early 90s. And falling.

To find out that a #1 comic today can sell to roughly the same amount of readers as a similar comic 20 years ago somewhat heartens me that maybe the comic book industry isn't on its death bed after all.

Sorry, but v.5 was the Waid/Kitson Legion of 2005.

Blacula,

v.5 is the Waid/Kitson, later Shooter/Manapaul title.

v.4 was the series that started as 5YG and ended as Reboot.

v.3 was the Baxter series

v.2 was the title taken over from "Superboy and the..."

v.1 was the old mini, reprints I believe.

... oh.

Thanks guys. Guess I better get back to plumping the pillows on that death bed then.

Septemebr Sales estimates are up at ICV2 and Adventure takes a relatively steep drop. Not uncommon for a second issue to do so, but given the upheaval in the title on the way, I expect the numbers to be anything but stable over the next little while.

Historically this is slightly lower than the second issue of the threeboot (48,584).

08/2009: Adventure Comics #1 -- 56,706, #30 out of 300
09/2008: Adventure Comics #2 -- 47,296, #44 out of 300

October Sales estimates are up at ICV2 and Adventure takes a 3K drop. Certainly not as heavy as the second issue drop, but too early to say if it is stabilising yet. Of course the next two issues are BN crossovers (one with a ring), so a huge uptick is on the way, but not one that's necessarily Legion related.

For the curious, the LSH issue of Superman: Secret Origin did 46,840 and the Lo3W hardcover clocked in at 4K.


08/2009: Adventure Comics #1 -- 56,706, #30 out of 300
09/2008: Adventure Comics #2 -- 47,296, #44 out of 300
10/2008: Adventure Comics #3 -- 44,431 #40 out of 300

A book that contains
32 pages of Superboy but with the knowledge that he is being booted out when Johns leaves and
10 meagre pages of Legion

is hardly going to win many readers apart from die-hards of both strips. Until Levitz takes over, there will be no real data.

Interesting that Secret Origin was about the same as Adventure

Sorry I'm a week late with this one:
November Sales estimates are up at ICV2 and as expected Adventure takes a huge leap to 85K thanks to the Blackest Night Story and the Ring promotion (stores that ordered enough copies got to give a coloured ring away with the issue). My store's relatively small so I can't tell you what colour the ring was, but let's just pretend it was pretty neat.

Arguably this is the highest an issue featuring the Legion has sold since the Lightning Saga. Of course this issue doesn't have much to do with the Legion, but they were the backup feature and hopefully getting 85K issues worth of exposure might get a few people interested, right? Right?

Anyway, here's the breakdown:
08/2009: Adventure Comics #1 -- 56,706, #30 out of 300
09/2008: Adventure Comics #2 -- 47,296, #44 out of 300
10/2008: Adventure Comics #3 -- 44,431 #40 out of 300
11/2008: Adventure Comics #4 -- 85,145 #6 out of 300

I know that my store had to order 50 copies of the book to be able to order the rings. That's probably quite a bump for a lot of shops that wanted to have the rings for their customers.

It certainly is odd to see # 4 of a comic outsell # 1.