Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Legion of Super-Heroes Sales Figures

It's the old "How can you tell if ____________is lying? His lips are moving!"

Ah, crap, I just realized. That means he could be in Congress one day.

Hey guys!

There is a website which lists comics sales figures for a number of years-Comichron, I believe. Check out the year 1966 , for example. Between Superboy and Adventure Comics, sales for the year were over 1,000,000! I was astonished. That was at 12 cents a pop! For the whole year that equals just over $130K! Today, that amount of money would equal sales of about 3500 per month. I realize that's a very crude example, but man, how times have changed...

And just to keep some perspective on the absolute scope we're talking here, compare 1966 and 2008 sales of "Adventures of Bob Hope"!

I'd love one of our resident genuises to figure out how much that amount of sales figures with today's, cashwise, with inflation and whatnot.

I have a theory there's actually been relatively little actual decline in dollar amount... 130K then likely tallies pretty close to whatever today's topselling books rake in... maybe?

Those sales figures for LO3W are excellent and easily put this series in the top tier if not the elite tier, of current DC titles.

DC would love any series that sells over 50k consistently, especially when it's bi-monthly or worse due to scheduling difficulties.


More importantly, DC, Jim Shooter, everyone knows what it takes to get the Legion to sell at a good level. The fact that DC doesn't do it, probably has more to do with legalities than it does cluelessness.


But make no mistake about it, LO3W has been a resounding success in terms of sales. Without a doubt.

Here's the LO3W Sales for July. Very solid outing, sticking at just shy of 56K. By any sales standard this even was a great success for a Legion book, even more impressive given the delays. Now, let's see how that translates into Adventure sales next month.

08/2008: Lo3W #1 -- 68,306, #20 out of 300 [73,914]
10/2008: Lo3W #2 -- 64,412, #23 out of 300
02/2009: Lo3W #3 -- 61,358, #15 out of 300
04/2009: Lo3W #4 -- 56,888, #28 out of 300
07/2009: Lo3W #5 -- 55,970, #29 out of 300

The sales figures on these mini series have always confused me. I can understand a drop off from a first issue to a second (you try the first issue and don't like it, you move on), but why is there, generally speaking, a steady decline from #2 to the end of the series? If you're inclined to pick up the second issue, wouldn't you want to finish the saga with the rest of the issues? Shouldn't issue #2 to the last be pretty much a flat line as far as sales go?

What disturbs me is that if this was an ongoing series, we'd probably end up in the 20k's again by the 20th issue, even with the great story and great artwork. This seems especially so with the Legion. What's a publisher to do?

BTW, I always appreciate the sales numbers info. Thanks, Rouge!!

You're quite welcome.

The thing to remember is that these numbers reflect orders to Diamond from retailers, so not necessarily everything ends up in a readers hand. An indeterminate amount of these are shelf copies which may or may not get sold. Retailers always alter orders according to what sells (i.e they don't want to eat unwanted copies), so if you have 1 copy of #1 and three of #2-#4 on your shelf you would probably reduce your order for #5 by a couple of issues to avoid having to pay for product you can't move. The steady drop usually just means different shops bail out at different points. In relative terms, these numbers are a healthy retention rate for a mini series.

I've seen you explain some of this at different times, but this finally makes sense to me (I'm a little slow).

I would also like to thank Rouge for posting this information. The sales figures are always interesting and certainly an indication on how well the book was received.

Hopefully these numbers and a successful Adventure run will equate to a monthly (sooner rather than later).

Rogue is an unsung hero of Legionworld for keeping us updated.


Those figures are are sweet. The total sales aren't elite, but the way it holds it's audience is...especially when you consider it was spun out of what is considered a disappointing, maxi-series, had huge lengthy delays, and oh yeah...had an incredibly large cast featuring many duplicate characters. Holding it's audience is what the Legion does extremely well, like few titles in history, when it is going well.

There is absolutely no way DC doesn't consider that one of their best successes in recent memory given the current state of the market and their place in it.

Whatever reasons this Legion doesn't yet have a series, it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that DC doesn't think it will be successful...more like they are taking their time to set up a full fledged relaunch and build up to it. They are doing the build up for the benefit of comic fans, not just Legion fandom.

Near as I can tell, there is a set audience of 50k out there for this Legion right now...no appearance by the Johnsboot has gone under 50k to my recollection.

LO3W was a very successful series. Period.

Agreed!

Agreed... except what happens if/when Mr Johns is not guiding the Legion ship - can a Legion title even sustain itself in the 30k+ range for any period of time? Recent history says 'no'.

Well...John's definitely seems to be busy right now.

Blackest Night, Flash, Green Lantern, Superman, the Legion, Adventure...he's also writing Smallville stories, a script for a Flash movie, and a Shazam movie...

So I can see your point, at the same time that could point to why there is no ongoing Legion right now, because Johns wants to do it and he is too busy to do so.

I think the guy is a Legion fan...the first live action appearance ever of the true Legion we owe to Johns(and he wanted to show the 31st century but couldn't do it with the Smallville budget).


I mean if Johns wasn't going to write it, there would already be a Legion series to catch the momentum of the Johns association.


But let's just say you're right...the list of creators that would like to work on the Legion is impressive. Jim Lee, JMS, even Copiel has said he would like to return to the book. Giffen said he'd do it again. Hell Mark Waid never got to write this Legion...and I'm sure he'd like to do so. Most of these guys were fans of the original Legion...there should be no problem getting top level creators to work on the Legion.

I don't think Johns is the only thing driving sales though...

The Johns Legion Superman stories outsold Johns non-Legion Superman stories in Action...and not every thing he writes sells 50k(Booster Gold for example).

I think the dymanic that Superman fans and Legion fans aren't necessarily the same base is the dynamic driving it...as it always did.

Certain PCT of fans, that aren't Superman fans read anything with Legion on it(20k), certain pct of Superman fans that aren't Legion fans read anything with Superman on it(30k?), the result is a title that sells better than either of them do alone.

This sort of merger is attempted all the time with other properties to little or no impact, probably becaus it's the same 20k that buy Hawkman and the Atom and the bases aren't truly distinct...this dymanic has always been very real with Superman in the Legion...at least based on my research and the sales history of the book.

Having George Perez on Lo3W needs to be factored into the sales figures as well.

Just curious, does anyone know how this compares to sales for Final Crisis itself, and other Final Crisis tie ins?

Didn't sell anything close to Final Crisis itself(100k or so) but held it's audience much better, and well after Final Crisis was over. Sold much better than any other Final Crisis Tie in mini and held it's audience better.

Thanks !!

Fortunately Arm Fall Off Boy posted those numbers earlier in the thread:

Final Crisis # 1 May '08 144,826
Final Crisis # 2 June '08 126,082
Final Crisis # 3 August '08 123,881
Final Crisis # 4 October '08 109,181
Final Crisis # 5 December '08 115,666
Final Crisis # 6 January '09 110,892
Final Crisis # 7 January '09 103,292

FC also held onto its audience rather well, for a series as late and divisive as it was. It certainly didn't post anything near Secret Invasion numbers, but it held to a respectable amount of sales.

I don't think it was such a hit: probably everything Johns has written recently sold MORE than L3W. And considering it was being built up for a long time, and featuring George Perez, it was okay-ish, at best. This was supposed to be at least in the 80.000. I think Rogues Revenge outsold Legion, am I right?

29% fall-off.

Analysis;
103,292 fans take hallucinagenics.
41,534 fans are in early re-hab.



Seriously though. nearly 35,000 readers dumped the equivalent of a graphic novel into the series then stopped. Are they now going to go buy the graphic novel to finish the story or were they just mitigating their losses?

Me? If I go more than two issues into a mega-crossover then drop, I bang my head against the wall.

Not true at all...in fact his Superman didn't sell more. The Legion added about 10k per month to the Superman sales figures In Action Comics that surrounded the Action arc.

Green Lantern, Blackest Night, Flash and the JSA are the only things that have sold better by Johns...and those characters weren't coming from being as far gone for as long saleswise as the Legion has been...

They weren't forgotten and obscure as the last 20 years have left the Legion.


It was also going up against Final Crisis, Secret Invasion and a massive economic collapse in the US as the market was dwindling...

And it was top 30 book minimum from start to finish...

As opposed to the typical ground the Legion has occupied for the better part of 20 years in the bottom 20.


Johns tends to build his readership the longer he is on a title...that makes him unique among DC writers.

His GL is stronger now month to month than it was at first(even if the GL series did debut to massive sales), his JSA relaunch sold better than the pre-relaunch JSA etc.


No, it didn't outsell the Legion.


FINAL CRISIS ROGUES REVENGE #1 (Of 3) 62,482

08/2008: Lo3W #1 -- 68,306, #20 out of 300

FINAL CRISIS ROGUES REVENGE #2 (Of 3) 54,404

10/2008: Lo3W #2 -- 64,412, #23 out of 300

FINAL CRISIS ROGUES REVENGE #3 (Of 3) 55,058

02/2009: Lo3W #3 -- 61,358, #15 out of 300

And just to cap it all off:

07/2009: Lo3W #5 -- 55,970, #29 out of 300


As for it's hittability...it stayed in the top 30. That is a success by any standard, regardless of creative team.

DC considers a top 30 book a hit, especially when compared to the area the Legion typically occupies. And has for decades now.

One other thing Ricards on LO3W sales...

LO3W#1 had a second printing.

Usually a second printing will garner an announcement by DC...

There was no announcment ever made about LO3W getting a second printing...almost as if DC didn't want anyone to know it.


Whatever reasons the Legion isn't in a series currently, it has nothing to do with the sales of LO3W...DC puts out roughly 70-80 titles per month that don't sell nearly as well.

It was definitely a hit, it definitely sold well enough to justify an immediate ongoing title.

It's been one of DC's top 10 best selling books Ricardo...

The lowest sales rank it had for DC was #13 in the final issue, and that just happened to be the month Blackest Night was launched.....

Green Lantern came out twice in July, that Tales of the Corps mini(that was weekly) put 3 issues in their top 10, there was a Justice League mini launched...otherwise this title would have been about the 6-7th best selling title of the month for DC.

If DC doesn't consider that worthy of a monthly, I don't know what they would.

That sounds like "probably everything" to me.

Exactly. I think DC expected more, because if it were an instant hit, they would put out a monthly. DC is not in the business of losing money. And Rogues Revenge, considering its roster and team involved, sold quite better than Legion (Legion has much more vocal fans, in a book that never sold worse than Flash, and George Pérez is much more attractive than Scott Kolins).

LSH run on Superman had alternative covers for all editions. This also might have inflated sales, as well as the hardcore Legion fan. So, Superboy, it is still pretty much okayish success.

maybe they just wanted for blackest night to end before launching new high profile titles. see for example what they're doing with the flash: they could have started a new ongoing series just after rebirth, but they went for a blackest night flash mini instead.