Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Legion costumes - rants!

you know, i don't know anyone that actually finds outfits with bare midriffs attractive. to me it just looks stupid and uncomfortable. super girl's outfit makes me very sad, for example.

indeed, a midriff is nice, in and of itself, and they are quite nice to be around when it's sexy time, but out in public it looks silly. by the same token, i think a shoulder or a hand can look very attractive. are people actually, TRULY pleased to see bare midriffs? are there really people that get excited and tantalized by a midriff?

if you are attracted to females, do you see a costume with a bare midriff and go "Oh, yes, i must BUY this, it's obviously going to be so hot"? like.. REALLY? sometimes i wonder if they think people buying comics are the girls gone wild crowd...

anyways. for sheer practicality, i liked the costumes in the reboot and the current era simply because they look more practical (ahhh tinya sort of looks silly with those bell bottoms but...) i LOVE the full bodied jumpsuit look. to me, it's best if the costumes aren't distracting, if they're a non entity. which, to me, means non sexualized costumes. you know, recently, scans daily had scans of that one issue of the search for ray palmer where there was that earth 11 where all the genders were reversed?

I actually went back and read it and i LOVED IT. what i found so interesting was how very NORMAL and presentable the justice leaguers looked that were female (ie, normally guy leaguers) and how ridiculous wonder man looked in diana's costume (even with it manned up a bit). i think sometimes an important exercise for costume creators should be to think about practicality.

in my experience, a lot of people are turned off by comics in general because of costuming (i bet a lot of american comics readers have problems with costuming in japanese comics, yes? same sort of deal), and a lot of girls i know in general shy away from anything that has a girl in a silly looking outfit (and i think that if you look critically, something that is intended to be 'sexy' for a certain demographic, looks absurd to a lot of people. have you ever seen something that's supposed to be pornographic or even just "sexy" that's not intended for your demographic? there's a string of abercrombie and fitch ads right now that are just naked male torsos (with no clothes actually...). these look silly, yes?

so... yeah. after rambling forever. i prefer less sexy costumes. it's annoying to have to explain to the unintiated "Yes, i know she looks like a prostitute, but she's not. she's got this sonic scream, it's really cool, no trust me. no really, she has a flower shop. no, i know she's wearing fishnets for no reason, i know, ok?". also, it's distracting!! it's hard to take someone seriously when they're wearing star covered wonder panties.

i always think that wonder woman must have come to the world of man by boat, walked onto the beach and saw all the people wearing bathing suits and gotten confused. "Oh, they dress like that in man's world, eh?"

but you know something weird is that drawn in certain styles, the same costume will look DRASTICALLY different. for example, power girls' had that boob window there for a long time, right? but way back in the day it never looked scandalous to me, it looked about as tawdry as a v-neck shirt. i've seen black canary wear the SAME OUTFIT and one artist has her looking very professional while another makes her look like street walker number 4. so..what i'm trying to say is that certain costumes in certain people's hands look better than others. hey, maybe if karl kerschl descended from heaven and drew chameleon boy's hideous early outfits i'd be all right with it? in Teen titans : year one i didn't think any of the old uniforms looked weird.

coipel's art made the archie, dumpy looking legionnaires look really cool and dramatic...SOMEHOW!

oh also when i said "evolution" i meant "revolution". not all changes are for the good, i agree.

One of my biggest complains with the Gary Frank costumes is that he tried to do updated versions of the Silver Age costumes instead of updating the Cockrum or even Giffen era costumes.

Timber Wolf looks pathetic, as does Shrinking Violet and Lighning Lad (you can't improve upon the Cockrum version yet both Manapul and Frank tried and failed).

Phantom Girl, Colossal boy and Shadow Lass have costumes that are updated from the Cockrum era -- though Shady's is a bit too harsh. Gim's is just boring.

Night Girl looks ridiculous while Polar Boy has his best look ever.

If Geoff Johns does write a new Legion, I say either go back to the classics or have the new artist go back to the drawing board with these.

Yeah, not letting George draw them in a classic style for L3W is a bit heart-breaking.

I do agree that editorial screwed the pooch when approving the new Legion costumes. Most people had just been introduced (some re-introduced) to the Legion in JLA and JSA. That's a lot of characters to remember, so DC allows the costumes to change -- and people are like WFT?! Stoopid!

Honestly, if they new L3W was coming up, they should have maintained the costumes from JLA/JSA.

Then if the "classic" Legion was going to stay around -- maybe get their own series -- that would have been the time to get an artist to update the costumes if needed. For the most part, though, Frank just didn't get these right.

A few responses.

I can certainly empathize with people who don't like the 70s costumes -- they are from a different era, but I still say some of those Cockrum costumes would only need minor tweeks while Franks already look dated. I just think the timing of introducing new costumes was off.

Gary Frank asked if he could design costumes. He wasn't told to do it. So the blame or credit goes to him.

Superboy Prime may be a crackpot, but he has good taste.

Cockrum's Legion costume were somewhat a reflection of the mod-era clothing people were wearing in the late 60s and early 70s. Cockrum just incorporated thee into his Legion costumes -- which were a breath of fresh air back in the day. Bell bottoms were actually more popular after Tinya started wearing them. Around 1976, the wider the leg-openings were, the better.

Frank's costumes look like something guys in the Olympics or Tour De France guys would wear. It's a choice, but can't say I love it.

Not arguing against your point, but it's ironic that your avatar is a Cockrum-created character.

Couple corrections:

Cockrum actually created the Bruce Lee costume and discared it after one issue. Grell brought it back. I was surprised by this also, but pick up the 10th archives for proof.

Cockrum didn't design Saturn Girl's second costume -- a fan did. I loved this costume, but I can understand why some people didn't.

Ross is a Grell-era fan.

The only cosutme of Grell's that I liked was the yellow/green open-top one he gave to Chlorphyll Kid. I think it only appeared in one backup story.

Well, the designs you loved were actually Cockrum's, so he should get some credit.

Grell designed the nearly naked costume for Cosmic Boy and Night Girl, the horrible shorty shorts and booties look for Colossal Boy and Dawnstar. He also reduced the amount of material in some of the girls' costumes.

Well, I for one, have always loved Cosmic Boy's black and silver look. I've always thought it was way more masculine than any of his pink costumes. Saturn Girl's was also fun and sexy, and I still think that she and Rokk complimented each perfectly during that era; His costume black w/straight lines and hers pink w/curved lines.

Colossal Boy's costume sans leggings struck me as visually top heavy and awkward.

You're 100% right, Jim. Furthermore, while I always have been very aware that that most of the Legionnaires changed their costumes at least once (having read them in German translation in a collection trade paperback, which had not only the Legion origin, but also the Lore of the Legion feature, the second part of the "Adult Legion" sequence, the "Revolt of the Girl-Legionnaires", the first Tyroc story, and three minor Bates/Grell stories), I also always thought that the "Disco" costumes of the Legion were "THE" Legion costumes, in much the same way I always thought that Batman's small bat in front of the full moon was "THE" most authentic, most true Batman symbol, even though there were others before it.

Right on, Ram Boy. I always wondered why people tend to think that era's Imra dressed like a tramp?

I mean, all I ever thought of that outfit was how strikingly beautyful it is...

And I remember well, from the first Tyrock story, that I was impressed by Cos' costume. (Meaning, no "Bitchdom" there, either.)

Ok, thank you both Mr. Grell and Mr. Cockrum!

Ha ha!

Nice.

Admittedly, I wasn't crazy about Grell's art when Cockrum left. I think he was actually a better inker (he inked Cockrum's pencils for "Lost a Million Miles from Home" in Superboy 202. I think he inked his own work the first year or two.

I did come to like Grell's work in the mid 80s when he was doing the James Bond and Green Arrow prestige books. He certainly improved with age.

Interesting topic and something I've commented on before. I can certainly understand the appreciation for so called "classic versions of the Legion costumes but I really don't think there is an actual classic and I really don't understand the disdain for Frank's versions. True I don't find a few of them that appealing but I think he did a great job overall.

There have been many versions of Legion costumes over the decades (I can think at least 11). I've loved Cockrum's for it's swashbuckling gaudiness, Grell's for it's spaced-out sexiness, Giffen's for it's high-tech futurist take and during the 5YL for it's gritty utilitarianism, Kitson's for it's homage-to-the past coolnes, and I like Franks' for it's realistic, individual stylishness. Each in their own times has had something of merit and each is more or less a version on a general theme. Something else else I've always appreciated about the Legion is the ability or at least the potential to change and grow. Sure Superman or Batman's costumes are Iconic but even they have had their tweaks over the years. And certainly there have been fashion disasters in there. Of which I'd probably lump Manupal's version. Sorry but his costume designs don't seem particularly original to me aside from a few exceptions and generally they leave me flat but that's partially a personal stylistic preference. But really, that Saturn Girl costume? Ick!

The Legion represents youth and the future. Youth set trends, change fashion and recycle aspects of the past. And the future is dynamic and changing and rife for speculation. To me, a graphic story with youth and the future at it's heart should represent just that and be readily able to change with the times. So I would definitely vote no on "classic" costumes whatever they may be.

Generally, you're not wrong, U lad. But pretty costumes shouldn't be replaced by outfits not only far less beautyful then the Disco costumes, but who also were far more dated from the very panel onwards, in which they first apeared. And that's the problem with both the ACTION and Giffen: The Giffen costumes were, really just lame Sixties clones, who desperately tryed to look "new", and "modern" and exiting-- kinda like an 90 years old trying to impressing your children by making "kewl". And the ACTION costumes look like a sick cross of generic late 80s and mid-90s uniforms.

My point is: "Never change something just for change's sake." And, indeed, both DC and Marvel would have done well to live after those words: it would've spared us Legion fans that obscene ThreeBoot, fer instance. We HAD a fully functional Legion, after DC had managed to restore the Legionnaires after dunking them into that wet, stinkin' pile of skunk's dung, which was 5YL. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the ReBoot Legion, except it's last creative team...

I agree on almost all points, except the Legion belts. They would serve as a wonderful unifieing element, and the belt pouches would serve only to enhance the costumes, and make them even more interesting for the children. (Except on Imra's costume, of course. On her outfit, there's just no place to stick the belt - and it's pouches -, and it'd clash dreadfully with a costume that is already sheer perfection in itself...)

I do sort of hate the new sleevless costumes several of the male Legionnaires are wearing. They just seem kind of effeminate to me. They remind me of those super heroine drag costumes Prince Projectur and Saturn Lad wore.

Oh yeah. The wife-beater look is really kind of obnoxious. Yeah, they've got shoulders. I kind of assumed that's how their arms were attached to their torsos. I don't actually need to *see* them, anymore than I need to see anyone's hips.

I'd go less with 'effeminate' ('cause Steve Lightle is probably my favorite Legion artist, and his male Legionnaires looked pretty darn effeminate...), and more with the sleeveless dudes looking kinda 'low-class' or 'trashy' (although the pseudo-mullets on Garth and Brainy might be reinforcing that notion...).

They do seem effeminate to me also. Not sure why, as there are costume designs I've seen on character in the past (Neal Adam's Megalith and Marvel's classic Hyperion come to mind) that actually seemed very masculine.

I'm also not a fan of belts used to unify the costumes. A belt often doesn't work with a costume, and forcing it onto a design looks bad.

I say the creators of the new post 50th anniversary Legion go with entirely different costumes for each and every legionnaire. It would add to the overall "newness" of the series.

Go big or go home!

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread, but of all other heroes, the Legion might be the only one where it actually makes sense to have "classic" looking costumes. The team (especially the 3boot) *is meant to be* a throwback in its very ideology. As long as the team's basis is that it was inspired by the classic DC heroes, and especially if they keep the "Lad" and "Lass" names, then it totally falls in line that they'd have retro costumes. Why would they draw inspiration from 21st century heroes (especially the Big3 who have barely changed looks since their beginnings) in every way other than fashion?

I Completely Agree ! No One Drew Better than Dave or Mike ! The Past 15 Years of jAgGeD SkEtChy 'sTyLe GrAfFiTi 'art' has been HORRIBLE to say the least ! No Wonder Sales Fluctauted So Much in the 80-90-00s There are also some Real LIfe Photos of Legionnaries for a Film or Movie which I'd like the LInks to as I can't find them and are like my avatar photo:" Please send me a link to the rest at jbfilmdirector@yahoo.ca Thankyou !LONG LIVE THE LEGION !

Well, I'd like to see everyone cover up a little more, personally. It's funny how so many guys don't think twice about Dawnstar as the eternal Cosmo Girl, but the minute a male has some skin showing they all go on and on about how "effeminate" or "trashy" it looks.

[snerk]

Cry me a river, Guys. Welcome to my world.

While I have no problem with the costumes, it's weird.

I hear people complain about the outfits. Then I hear them complain about the characterization. It makes me wonder how Johns' Legion stories are getting such good reviews.