Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Legion costumes - rants!

I could imagine some of the Legionnaires would function fine au natural, but Brainy would need some sort of harness...

What? No, I mean for his force field belt and tools! Stop looking at me like that!

Maybe someone with a comprehensive set of scans ought to set up a poll.

Legionnaire by Legionnaire, which costumes are the fan favorites/best designs/most striking ?

The Legion had several costume changes up to the point where the Johnsboot version comes in, significantly:

the Silver Age
Cockrum "disco"
Giffen/Levitz

Each of these will be considered the "definitive" or "iconic" by a section of Legion fandom.
The Lightning Saga featured for example Projectra in Giffen's Sensor Girl outfit with 1980s shoulder pads. Is that the classic look?

Each set of costumes reflected the fashion of the day (at least the fashion amongst comic artists) so gradual changes are expected.

One of the reasons the Legion has been so popular is that the characters have gradually aged unlike say Superman who is probably supposed to be younger now than when he was first published. Is it logical to expect 20 or 30 somethings to still wear the outfits they wore as teenagers? No.

Could anyone today really expect Lightning Lad to return to his old orange and blue outfit or Saturn Girl to the pink bikini?

I liked Frank's new Vi and Rokk costumes better than their Giffen ones (though Cockrum's Vi design was probably the best ever Legion costume IMHO) but I hated Night Girl's and Invisible Kid's.

Perhaps it is better to let whoever is going to draw the new series decide what reflects their own style best - possibly a mix of all eras

I vote for "pantsless"

Strangely enough..the Legion costumes that I consider 'iconic' are the silver age costumes. The first incarnation of the Legion I ever read as a child was the Adventure Comics Legion so to me that is the 'real' Legion. And as a result I've never really liked the Cockrum/Grell costumes because they replaced "my Legion".

(although I do love the Cockrum designs for the X-Men, especially Storm. Again since that was the first costume I ever saw her in I've always considered that her 'real costume' and have hated every costume she's had since.)

On the old DCMBs it seemed every poster was waxing lyrical about the Grell/Cockrum Legion and how wonderful the costumes were. When the SA costumes were mentioned it was generally to sneer at how old fashioned and ugly they were according to everybody. And it was the recieved wisdom of the board that this was so. And I was always like.....hello, don't these people ever stop to consider that they don't speak for everybody?

Strangely enough I think most of the Cockrum/Grell costumes are fugly. Full of over-gaudy clashing colours and horribly dated 70s design elements. I consider the Silver Age costumes to be classic and timeless.

I do wish people who love the 70s Legion would remember sometimes that their 'iconic' is another Legion fan's crappy unwanted re-designs.

Please don't take this as anything personal to all you Bronze Age Legion fans! But as someone whose greatest love is the SA Legion it does get wearing to see the Bronze Age Legion being talked about like it's the only worthwhile version. Again and again and again. It gets old.

No I do not want the 70s costumes back. If I had my way the Adventure Comics era costumes would be back and they would never go away again!

However I'm realistic enough to realise that would never work.

What I'm trying to say in my long winded way is-for every Legion fan there's a different idea of what's 'iconic' and it's generally whichever Legion you saw first.

There is no 'iconic' Legion. There's a patchwork of different incarnations that all have their passionate advocates.

And that's why it's best to look to the future and not slavishly reproduce the past.

Although I do think it's a crying shame that Lightning Lad doesn't have a cape anymore. Ha!

Heres the Legion costume Survivor,that Kid Prime did a couple of years ago.

http://www.legionworld.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000126#000000

This is something I've felt for a long time. Many superheroes have iconic versions. Sometimes revamps of popular characters don't stick (Byrne's Superman) because the public already "knows" what the character is like and can't easily relearn. But the Legion... most of the world doesn't even know it exists.

To me, all Legions are "a" Legion. There is no "the" Legion.

(And I do hate Cockrum's costume sense, on both the Legion and the X-Men. He got lucky with some designs, like Phantom Girl, but overall, he's not a good fashion designer. His costumes are almost as weird as Kirby's.)

There is no one writer, no artist, no title, no period of comics, that always produces gold.

Please. Do not demand a writer to conform to your needs... do you want to jeopardize the quality of his or her work?

Cockrum's designs hisses youth in every frame.

But the Legionnaires are now 30+. They need to have uniforms a little more sensible, or rugged to their needs. At least it isn't an obselette material like spandex, eh?

I am surprised this thread has gone on this long with people still lumping Cockrum and Grell.

Generally (with one exception I'll note in a moment), I loved Cockrum's costumes...whether or not they are "iconic" is not for me to say - but they do represent the transition/resurgence of the old "innocent"-era LSH to the more modern style. Certainly, they represent its revival.

That said: Grell's only additions (IMHO) SUCKED...
As I recall they were:
1) Nearly naked Cos (the worst)
2) pantsless Colossal boy
3) Giant collar/Bruce Li Karate Kid.
4) His alterations of the Subs...

I did like Dawnstar (but she was new).
From Cockrum, I did NOT like Saturn Girl...
Pink bikini with thigh boots? You don't even have to see it, you can condemn it just by its description.

AS far as what's "iconic", I think it varies by Legionnaire...

FOR EXAMPLE, a few of Cockrum's outfits (Vi and Element Lad, specifically) did sort of have nothing to do with any other version of those costumes. Likewise, Colossal Boy's Silver Age suit looked like nothing since...definitely not "iconic".

In fact, I'd say on the still-mourned cartoon,
how they decided to depict each legionnaire does a good job of approximating the "most typical" look for each legionnaire over time. LO3W is close, but not quite (kind of like when late v3 Giffen decided to give everyone huge pockets and jackets). I *will* say, though, that I can live with it, i.e. not ideal, but close enough.

you know another thing to consider is not just the costume design but actual uhm.. ah..what's the word? i guess just CHARACTER design?

querl going from green boy to ADORABLE green boy with little markings on his face, for example?

yeah i'm not a big fan of the older costumes, i can't help but crack up every time i see naked cosmic boy. it's hideous but i love that it happened. i just get excited to see new versions of them, i guess!

oh what i meant to say was... what did you guys think of the costumes in the animated series?

Evolution Has Failed,

Grell did not design Karate Kid's high collar costume. That was Cockrum. It debuted in Superboy #193 along with his other first costumes: Vi, DD, and Cham, but then disappeared until the pain plague story, some time after Grell took over.

Cockrum did not design Saturn Girl's new costume either. It first appeared in Action 392 and was designed by a reader (K. Haven Metzger I think), long before Dave started drawing Legion. It was originally red, but after a couple of appearances it was made pink, probably to try and make Imra more feminine and live down her iron butt image.

James Sherman was the first artist to draw Dawnstar on panel, but Grell did the cover. Not sure which one designed her costume.

But you're right about Grell's costumes. They did SUCK quite hard, especially Cosmic Boy's and Night Girl's. Can't believe Ross used those costumes for his otherwise fabulous poster.

Lydda and Rokk were in love. These costumes were reflective of a couple not wanting to wear clothes around each other.

JimGallagher,

Thanks for the corrections! (I actually knew SGs first "pink binkini" was the last in the Action run, so I should have realized it wasn't Cockrum. I'd completely forgotten about KK, however.)

This just further absolves Cockrum, as I would put the pink bikini as a far worse fashion sin than than the KK costume (which IMHO was the least egregious on my list, I almost didn't even list it).

Nevertheless, good to see I'm not the only one to dislike Grell's additions...although, given Grell's penchant for nudity, I'd lay odds Dawnstar was his design (I have a vague recollection of reading that also, but we've already established that my recollections aren't all that reliable.)

To Silver Age Lad - If only someone had told them to "get a room", we might have been spared! (not sure that phrase was used yet in the 70s...)

Yes Dawnstar was a Grell design.

As for the Cockrum designs,I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder,as I think he was the best costume designer ever on the Legion,I would list Lightle as second,and Giffen below Grell.

Interesting discussion. Mike Grell was always my favorite artist and designed the costumes when I first saw the comic, so for me, he is at the top of the list. His debut as artist took place in issue #203, Massacre By Remote Control. He was told that in his very first issue a main character (Invisible Kid) was to be killed and that the fans would most likely blame him. There is an interesting forward by Mike Grell in the hard cover archive editions book #11 that addresses the issue. As for Saturn Girl, the pink bikini she wore was my favorite, as was Phantom Girl's bell bottom design. Again, probably because it was the first way I saw the characters. I really disliked Grell's make over of Cosmic Boy though. That was painful and I wish it had been dropped. Does this put me in the costume minority: most likely, but that's ok, it makes for good discussions.

Some Legionnaires have a consistent look going across their versions, others less so. Saturn Girl, for example, settled on a red or pink outfit with white down the center. The space bikini was the main exception - and it was a doozy. But Element Lad? Chameleon Boy? No common color scheme at all.

So, I didn't realize people actually got worked up about costumes until I started reading message boards. I read these threads because they are interesting and to occasionally throw in a non-sequitor, like

You all'd laugh at just one scene of Brainy walking in low-riders.

Admit it.

Grell's characters looked like fashion models and dressed like them, too. Obviously the intention was for sex to sell the book. How many of the covers of the time had scantily clad Legionnaires laid out across the page?!

I also love those looks. I think Grell did some sexy updates to Cockrum's designs. Were they functional? The answer has always been that this is the 30th century. They could be alien fabrics or fabrics that have technology that we don't have now.

Pink Bikini and Cosmic Corset however, are costumes that don't fit (heh...perfect pun intended!) the character.

Again, I like Giffen's post Great Darkness updates.

In defense of the Cosmic Corset. It was a great statement on gender equality. By the time it was introduced most of the the girls were bare legged, bare armed and a few were showing more skin than costume. The boys were all covered up. Long sleeves and long pants. Finally a guy who was man enough to show some skin. It helped develop his personality. Rokk went from boy to man in as soon as he put that costume on, in my book. The sideburns helped.

Grell did seem to want to say that skin was in for both males and females, which I agree was a great statement on gender equality. However, I just don't think Cos or Imra seemed the type to go for that trend. I do think they looked pretty cool, though, and at the time, I didn't think it was off, but now, looking back on their overall characterization, it just doesn't make sense that they'd dress that way. Cockrum's design for Lightning Lad is a classic. Way better than the original, and he's covered neck to toe --- and Grell didn't mess with that!

Also, simply the way Cockrum and Grell drew the characters made them look older, more like men and women instead of kids. I wouldn't say it was the flesh baring costumes that did that.

Grell was born to be drawing John Carter of Mars books, all sword and blaster swashbuckling adventures. He brought some of that sensibility to his Legion costumes, and while I didn't mind it, I do think he picked the wrong characters to dress up (or, undress). Saturn Girl and Cosmic Boy have often seemed button-up and repressed, and their more classic costumes have had a uniform-like quality to them, in my eyes. Lightning Lad, on the other hand, seems more like the type to let it all hang out, and he's the founder who kept his shirt on!

Even then, the only male Legionnaire whom I could see wearing a mankini would be Ultra Boy or Sun Boy (both of whom stayed fully dressed), and the only female Legionnaire who really fits that style of dress is Dream Girl.

IMO, Tasmia and Projectra, given the cultures they come from, would be more likely to be clad in armor the likes of which Joan D'Arc would be impressed (or, in Projectra's case, a fancy neo-Victorian gown, for formal occasions!). Bikinis or one-pieces so low cut as to show off your Brazilian, combined with billowing capes? Not so much.

Then again, it seems that Blok wins the 'most exposed skin' contest, even if it wasn't really 'skin' that he was showing. Much like the Thing, he's got to run around half-dressed just to show off his fancy hide.

And some doubted the worth of my creation Nudelad!

Yet strangely enough we never saw a girl in one. IMHO Night Girl or Saturn Girl would have carried it off great- better than the bikini look.

If midriffs are today's standard of "sexy"... I think it is possible for us to strip down to nothing by a century. Really.

And returning to the debate... hey, remember when Imra wore the bikini again in 5YL? Not cool. People should be allowed to wear something closer to their age.

I haven't read the whole thread yet but I find it wierd people want the classic costumes.

I just talked to someone this weekend who felt the same way as many here do. He was a big fan of the Levitz Legion and he said he can't get into this Legion because the costumes. Personally, I don't understand that.

I'm not a big fan of the new costumes but superheroes in general need new costumes. The Silver Age versions lasted way too long.