Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! LSH #50 Spoilers

Any plans on sharing which you're standing by and which you're not?

Let me guess.
People weren't quite so 'professional' as you thought?

I've been around awhile and I'm here to tell you, NOBODY is.

From Dan Didio 20 Questions at Newsarama :

7. One question that came up a few times in the thread – what happened with Legion of Super-Heroes #50?

DD: It’s pretty clear, and I answered this at one of my panels at the con, but I’m more than happy to address it again. What happened was that upon the author’s request, there was a name change and a pseudonym used and we obliged that request. We made those changes at the very last minute because we did not want to miss our shipping date on the book. We made a couple of changes in order to get the book out on time, and we felt that it summed up the story to the best of its ability, and we’re ready to move on to the next chapter of Legion wherever that may be, following the conclusion of the series.

Did he learn this by heart? It's a copy-paste of his rude assessment at NYCC. Why doesn't he tell me why the PLANS were changed and the book was cut-off? Why didn't they return our money back for false advertising? Why does he let L3W get so late, but for LSH #50 it had to be shipped on time? Yes, it's a rhetorical question.

More then:
12. Moving on to a question about something you said about DC having an increased commitment to the Legion of Super-Heroes in 2009. Last year at this time, there were two series, and an animated series. This year, the regular book has been cancelled, and they’re going to be doing what looks to be a time-share thing in Adventure Comics. What’s the increased commitment going to consist of, coming up?

DD: Well, we also have Legion of 3 Worlds coming to a conclusion too, which is a very important book for the Legion franchise. But the commitment is that we’re bringing a level of clarity to the Legion and one direction that shows the potential for the future of the Legion, but also how that future is springing from the current storylines in the current continuity.

So what you’re going to see is how the Legion has ties to our current timeline, and once we establish those ties to the current time, we’ll spring forward to the future an d see what the future holds for those characters.

NRAMA: So mostly, we’re going to see more of firmly-established clear-line continuity than it’s had previously?

DD: Right. One of the things that I found most interesting about Legion of 3 Worlds was that the delineation between the three Legion teams were slighter than we had originally thought. They were variations of each other rather than different focus, different plans between them. What we’re trying to do right now is to bring a level of clarity to everything, the Legion included. Following Blackest Night, we’re looking at a much clearer, iconic interpretation and a much more committed determination to the direction of our characters. Legion is no exception, and we wanted to clear the decks a bit, straighten things up and get things rolling again.

Oh my, the book would have come out LATE if they wouldn't have done the last minute changes... LATE!!!

God beware any DC book would come out late...

Clearer: okay that I can handle but what does it mean? Will they be picking a "legion" from the remnants of the three (which would seem more confusing than clearer) as opposed to picking a legion? I think many on this board warned of the faults in that; false memories, team members not who others thought they'd be, age differences...

Connections to present continuity: not looking forward to so much as I do not see any storyline purpose. I suppose DC will be consistent and be sure to make connections between present day heroes and the Battle of Hastings.

Dan, you're such a weasel. Shooter's story title was"One Evil", and according to the author Princess Projectra was the "One Evil". Explain to me how you can sum up the story to the best of your ability when its central character wasn't even mentioned in LSH #50?
"Clarity", that's it? That's all he has to say about his commitment to the "potential future" of the Legion? He sure uses a whole lot of words to say nothing.

But I guess that's as honest an answer as he dares give. Dan says nothing because the foreseeable future of the Legion after LO3W amounts to nothing - except some vague "potential" that may or may not be fulfilled.

Oh no. Sounds like they're not only re-establishing the ties to Superman, but also to the rest of the current-day DCU. I don't think I'm looking forward to seeing how Hal Jordan's fart in 2009 affected the Legion.

Oh, well. At least it isn't MARVEL inserting Wolverine into the team somehow.

This will be the catalyst that tells us the revamped, totally new and different™ Emerald Legion story involving the Action Legionnaires this time! This will then lead into the all-new™ Team 20 series of stories starring the Action Legion "to make things less confusing." :rolleyes:

Argh. The Legion has always had less problems with clarity than any other comic on the stands. One book, sometimes two, not 4 or 5 with multiple crossovers with the rest of the line. I just don't understand how the Legion ever got such a bad rep for being hard to get into. I look at the X-Men "franchise" and wonder how it got from my day when it consisted of "Uncanny X-Men" and "New Mutants." Clarity my *ss.

I think this is true ~ the difference between the 3 boots was never very great.
They were really just teams at different eras in development, doing the same things ~ trying to work together despite differences, sometimes with the prevailing government and sometimes against it.

But that's been pretty much the same for ALL of the comic groups, over the years.

Does that mean that DC wants to change the Legion's focus/plan?
To what?

They've combined eras before (clones)(have we seen any of them in 3worlds?) and I'd enjoy seeing that again combining the 3 boots, but I don't know about changing the focus/plan for the Legion.
What would that look like?
What new direction could they take?

Secondary characters to Superman?

Stuck in the 21st century?

Both?

It sounds to me that he's hinting that the 3 versions of each Legionnaire are such slight variations that they may be merged together to form a single composite of each silver age member, similar to how Phase and Apparition were merged in the last boot. The non silver age members are left over as wild cards. Some will probably die, others will stick around to make the Legion seem "fresh and new."

But since the multiverse is back and there are other versions of many other DC characters, I don't see why there needs to be one "iconic" version of the Legion anyway. Just pick one and feature it. The other versions could show up occasionally as guest stars, like when the JSA and JLA team up periodically.

matlock:

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One book, sometimes two, not 4 or 5 with multiple crossovers with the rest of the line. I just don't understand how the Legion ever got such a bad rep for being hard to get into. I look at the X-Men "franchise" and wonder how it got from my day when it consisted of "Uncanny X-Men" and "New Mutants." Clarity my *ss.

matlock, I think you just hit the nail on the head. If a property can't be made to bear a huge squirming litter of must-have tie-in books, (maybe) the bigwigs can't be made to really care about it.

Maybe "hard to get into" is just code-speak for "We can't breed it, so piss off."

(snip)

Jim Gallagher:

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...But since the multiverse is back...

Until somebody changes his/her mind and they get rid of it again. ("Return of the Return of the 53rd Infinite Crisis on 99 Worlds.") Feh.

The multiverse isn't really back. 52 universes have been created (they aren't even the originals.) It's like if your car radio had all the presets already locked in when you bought it and you could never change them, and they took the rest of the nobs off.

It wouldn't be the first time DC put conflicting versions of a character/team in a cosmic blender to "clarify" their differences. The did it with Donna Troy and the Doom Patrol a few years ago and more recently seemed to be doing it with Jimmy Olsen. But I don't think Didio and Johns have the balls to merge the 3 Legions. Imo, they'll take the cowards way out and just continue pretending the Johnsboot Legion is the "original" -- while proceeding to rewrite its entire history from scratch -- thus permanently disposing of the original pre-Crisis LSH along with the post-Crisis, 5YL, reboot and 3boot versions.

At this stage, I don't give a crap what those two hypocrites do. They've already ruined everything.

Wow, the Legion is going to be 'clarified' by making sure that it's affected by every tie-in and crossover related to the 21st century DCU characters.

It's like Laurel Kent-Manhunter, all over again...

... but worse: there is no Paul Levitz writing it.

Really, why get stuck in 52 or 110? If you add up all the time travelling shenennigans going on on Booster Gold, it really doesn't matter at all.

After reading the posts here I had pretty much convinced myself that I wasn't going to buy this ish, tough economic times and all that. But I bought the thing just to see what all of the rending of garments was all about. By itself it wasn't that bad of an issue, though the artist probably wouldn't have been a choice I would have made for this book. His style, particularly his people, doesn't seem to fit a futuristic sci-fi book. But maybe over time one could get used to it. The big problem was that the issue didn't deliver what was promised on DC's own website. Forget the last minute change in writer and artist, at least tell the story that you promised that you were going to tell, regardless of who you get to tell it. I could also kind of see a scenerio where maybe the Invader Majestix was Projectra. But you'd need the extra issues to get there. The let down is Mon-El is still in limbo, Cos is still in the future's future, Dream Boy is ?, etc.

Given last twenty or so years of the LSH and now to end the Legion's 50th anniversary like this, DC you really OWE the LSH fans a huge debt. Make it right.

Yeah, Duck, that's what we've all been saying.
I just want this issue to die and be put out of our misery, but this thread just keeps on going...How about we put 4 more messages on here--that'll get us to 247, then lock it?

No, I was right about that. It had nothing to do with one person not liking another person's take on a given series. Again, pros don't get worked up about that stuff - fans do. The conflict was always about publishing concerns, not story content.

I was wrong about who it was that was butting heads, as some of my information was out of date. I have since been updated by the horse's mouth, so my first post was right - up to a point. Then things changed, and it affected the outcome of the series.

Auugh! How open-ended can you get? Reading between the lines, this sounds like "maybe we'll make another LSH book eventually, if fan reaction is positive".

This was his chance to plug a new LSH book, and he didn't. This means there are no plans...and if/when there are, how long a delay from plan to first issue?

I agree with whoever brought up the 50th anniversary: 50th anniversary, semi-successful cartoon, *very* well-reviewed appearance on "Smallville", and...

hey, great time to have no title book?
Indefinitely?

As for clarity: we had the John's Legion in Countdown/Action ... but the Threeboot LSH is STILL affecting things (R.E.B.E.L.S, Brave and Bold) ... seems to me (as I think other have alluded to) that the more such "ties" over the timeline there are, the LESS "clear" the LSH can be.

As for issue #50 - sure, a let-down for a last issue. But let's also face this: had he/they gone through with the original plan, Jeckie fans would have been up in arms, and would have felt betrayed.

I know, as an Element Lad fan, I wish someone had stepped in at the end of "Legion Lost" and changed the Progenitor storyline ... even if doing so would have made for an anti-climactic ending.

So, poor as it may have been, they erred on the side of character preservation, which I appreciate.

Besides, in even the best titles, 15-20% of the issues randomly suck anyway, so this was nothing new.

Nevertheless, I do agree that it was a crime not to take great pains to stay out of that 15-20% bracket on what could turn out to be the last issue for a LONG time, and on the 50th (year) anniversary to "boot" (pun intended ... not just the usual, but also that they are kicking us in the gut.)

Agreed. Especially as the GL foundations change every 5-10 years.

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...with the original plan, Jeckie fans would have been up in arms, and would have felt betrayed.

I know, as an Element Lad fan, I wish someone had stepped in at the end of "Legion Lost" and changed the Progenitor storyline ... even if doing so would have made for an anti-climactic ending.

So, poor as it may have been, they erred on the side of character preservation, which I appreciate.

I could not disagree more. If the line is drawn at what might affend some fans or even many fans, we will never see an interesting story again. Charatcters we care about beling placed in situations in which they have a genuine risk factor is vital; if every intense danger turns out to be a red herring, we have the lame, watered-down Silver age Kal-El stories.

If that's what we as Legino fans collectively want, (1) we are just as impossible as some others perceive us, and (2) we might as well just readl back issues and write our own fan-fic than to read anything that might offend delicate sensibilities.

I'd rather have seen *some* conclusion to the Jeckie story than none at all, even if Shooter's run wasn't as good as Legion Lost (and one can be a Jan fan without automatically hating it, or wanting TPTB to step in and alter an ending).

I'll accept a *good* story where a character dies. The death of Phoenix had meaning, and so I was fine with it. Her subsequent lives and deaths have not had any real narrative meaning, and have served to cheapen the original story.

The problem here is that Projectra got saved in LSH 50, only to likely have her entire universe cease to exist by the end of Lo3W anyway (and quite possibly being punched through the chest / cut in half by heat vision / etc. by Prime anyway, along with 50 other random Legionnaires who don't 'make the cut' into Dan Didio's 'less confusing Legion of 1 World').

I would rather have seen the Threeboot Projectra, who is a *vastly* different character than Snakejectra or Sensor, die at the end of what has essentially been a 50 issue story arc about the death of her world and it's effects on her, than have her be decapitated in a flyby attack by Prime at the bottom right-hand panel of page 16 of Lo3W #5 along with Gear, yet another Triplicate Girl (the gift that keeps on giving to an editorial mandate to kill a bunch of people, since they can kill her over and over) and Invisible Jacques.

Well said, Set.

I agree with you both. The death of Phoenix had tremendous meaning, as did the death of Barry Allen. I loved both of these characters dearly, but they had purpose and were well done. The years spent developing Wally as a character, as a "Replacement" Flash, who himself did not feel worthy to wear the shoes of his mentor were very well done overall (hey, everybody who runs will stumble from time to time). I remember previous writers and editors at DC comics swearing Barry Allen would never been resurrected (he may appear in time travel stories or an "untold adventure"... he was the closest thing DC had to a saint. I don't need Barry to be back again full time...even though I'll definitely be buying the book. I feel like such a hypocrite. But it looks to have both a great story and beautiful artwork.

Even drawing from the Legion's history:

Ferro Lad dying against the Sun Eater. It would cheapen his story to have him come back now.

And when Garth died at the end of Legion Lost, I should have screamed for DnA's heads (Lightning Lad has always been my favorite superhero), but I didn't because it was so well done. How his sacrifice got the team home, and reminded them all that they were never "lost" to begin with... Well done. But hey, he's back now too. I was torn to see him return, as it cheapened what I thought was an incredible ending.

As far as I'm concerned, issue #50 was an editorial copout. We deserved to see the story through to it's completion. Even if Jim was going to have Jeckie kill Sun Boy for working with Terra Firma only to have Sun Boy appear in Lo3W and get frozen and smashed by Prime anyway...no big deal. Orion died twice between Death of the New Gods mini and Final Crisis...I can overlook that kind of thing from time to time...

From a Legion death standpoint, I also think we've seen enough Karate Kids and Triplicate Girls die too. Let's move on.

Death should not be a revolving door in comic books. It takes no talent to bring the character back from the dead. Does anyone here believe Bruce Wayne is gone for good? Steve Rogers? Anyone? I didn't think so.