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Re: Cary Bates/Mike Grell Legion
#613270 09/11/12 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by Jerry:
I absolutely love the Bates/Grell Legion stories. Many of today's comic fans complain about decompression in modern comics. The Bates/Grell team was the total opposite end of the spectrum. Complete compression. Small teams. A little bit of characterization and personal interaction by the team in the introduction. Here's your villain/conflict. Here's your obstacle in overcoming that villain. Here's your trope for overcoming that conflict, and a couple cute lines of characterization to wrap it all up. Bam. There's your story - completed in 17 pages. Some of these issues contained two stories, so the process was complete in half the time. Grell's open style with little to no attention to background detail gave the whole thing a wide open feeling even though it the storytelling was actually very tight. He was able to play with Cockrums stunning designs and give them his full focus. So you had a visually appealing, very cool looking Legion.
It was a formula that worked well for the team.
This is the best description ever!


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Re: Cary Bates/Mike Grell Legion
#613271 09/11/12 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by He Who Wanders:
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Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
[b]Good point HWW on how Legionnaires exits were handled in such a positive way as compared to these days.

One of my favorites during this run: "Soljer's Private War"
Thanks, Cobie.

"Soljer's Private War" was different in that it was darker than most Legion stories of that era. However, I liked it because "Soljer" wasn't truly a villain; he was just a soldier doing his job. The story also touched on all kinds of themes, such as the horrors of war, reality versus perception, and how soldiers are or aren't remembered long after their sacrifices.

Most Legion stories of that time explored themes relevant to teenagers (e.g., insecurity, fitting in, proving one is not "the weakest link"). "Soljer's Private War" was one of the few that connected to more adult themes and gave the reader much to think about.[/b]
You touch on a number of the elements that make this such a standout story (not only for the era but IMO, the entirety of Legion history).

A powerful, and pessimistic theme, is the level of importance of Soljer's mission to the character, and the lack of importance to everyone else. The Legionnaires may have a basic sense of that, but they never quite grasp it. It's a powerful idea in terms of history. Most of us don't give a crap about who died during the Napoleonic Wars, or what sacrifices were made so a battle could be won. Yet hundreds of thousands gave their lives during those wars. Just like 200 years from now, people will not care at all about soldiers who die for wars fought today.

It's a chilling concept that looms over the whole story.

Re: Cary Bates/Mike Grell Legion
#613272 09/11/12 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by Set:
[QUOTE]Trapper, yeah, there's no excuse for a time manipulator on his scale to ever lose. He can look ahead and never be surprised by any tactic, and counter it before even Brainiac 5 has thought of it, and if he ever *does* lose, he can call a time-out and retcon his loss into a victory. He's pretty much unbeatable, or, should be.
This would be an interesting way to handle the Time Trapper. It's a vendetta for him because he keeps losing and rebooting time to get another crack at the Legion, but it's always a first encounter for the Legion. And tney can't figure out why the guy hates them so much.

Re: Cary Bates/Mike Grell Legion
#613273 09/11/12 01:28 PM
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Re: Cobie

Indeed. It's the generals who are remembered, not those who fought, suffered injuries, or died.


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Re: Cary Bates/Mike Grell Legion
#613274 09/11/12 10:15 PM
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Does anyone know what Cary Bates is currently doing for a living, I would have loved if he were the one who replaced Fabian Nicieza on Legion Lost, no disrespect to Tom DeFalco it's just Cary's history with the Legion, That and his part in co-creating Wildfire and Tyroc!


I tried to rip their soul out.I tried to make them forget Superman.
But they won't.
Re: Cary Bates/Mike Grell Legion
#613275 09/12/12 02:22 AM
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Originally posted by Rob-Em: This would be an interesting way to handle the Time Trapper. It's a vendetta for him because he keeps losing and rebooting time to get another crack at the Legion, but it's always a first encounter for the Legion. And tney can't figure out why the guy hates them so much.
Heh, that would be crazy cool.

Time Trapper "This will be our final battlefield! You have foiled me for the last time! Die!"

Dream Girl "Who is this jerk?"

Time Trapper "You don't even remember me, do you? Now I'm really mad!"


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Re: Cary Bates/Mike Grell Legion
#613276 09/12/12 07:53 AM
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I remember Per Degaton facing a similar frustration in some of his encounters with the JSA and All-Star Squadron. It's kind of the nature of the beast with time travel. If they literally undo your plans, then no one will remember you.


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Re: Cary Bates/Mike Grell Legion
#613277 09/14/12 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by Lone Wolf Legionnaire:
Does anyone know what Cary Bates is currently doing for a living, I would have loved if he were the one who replaced Fabian Nicieza on Legion Lost, no disrespect to Tom DeFalco it's just Cary's history with the Legion, That and his part in co-creating Wildfire and Tyroc!
Bates still writes. Wikipedia lists his recent activities.


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Re: Cary Bates/Mike Grell Legion
#613278 09/17/12 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by Set:
Time Trapper, yeah, there's no excuse for a time manipulator on his scale to ever lose. He can look ahead and never be surprised by any tactic, and counter it before even Brainiac 5 has thought of it, and if he ever *does* lose, he can call a time-out and retcon his loss into a victory. He's pretty much unbeatable, or, should be.
I always had the impression that the Time Trapper did have limits on his power. He couldn't create realities at will; he had to very carefully nudge one piece here and there to create his desired outcome. And time has generally been depicted as linear even for the time travelers in LSH. Even the Time Trapper seems unable to go back on his own timeline at will. Basically, it seems to me that the fact that he never did what Set describes tells me that he probably can't.

Re: Cary Bates/Mike Grell Legion
#613279 09/17/12 09:57 PM
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But if he can pick one moment out of the past and create a whole pocket universe with it, and shape its history, what can't he do?

But more importantly, even if he could only do that, why can't he be happy with one universe shaped as he likes it?

Re: Cary Bates/Mike Grell Legion
#613280 09/18/12 09:11 PM
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One explanation could be that he has the ability to manipulate time at will, but not even he (or she, let's be gender-fair tongue ) can anticipate all the possible changes that will result because of altering one moment in the past. Therefore, the Trapper might wisely have decided to be more careful and not mess up with the past too much.

Still doesn't explain why he can't always win a fight. Maybe if the fight takes place in linear time (e.g. 31st century), then there are too many variables. But if on the Trapper's own home turf (like in the Conspiracy story), the Trapper doesn't have to worry about any of that.

Then again, if the Trapper embodies the theory that all things must end anyway, why should he/she care if history is changed? All life will end anyway, who cares how it happens?

Okay, I've gone and talked myself into circles and made my brain explode!

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