Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Legion vs. 'Grownups': Are adult Legion fans missing the point?

I don't think that's necessarily true. Not at all.

I disagree. I don't think generational differences will ever go away. I don't even think we should want them to.

Like the conclusion of issue #14, the "Klar" preview that provoked all the complaining was actually a turning point in the kids vs. adults conflict. For the first time, we see they've made a genuine impact on the average man in the street (or in the condo, as it were). As such, it's a step FORWARD, not backwards, and a sign that Waid is ready to advance to the next stage, to Act II, "the Legion proper", to use his own wording in a recent interview.

There are 17 other pages in issue #16, some of which apparently involve building the new HQ and (needless to say) the arrival of Supergirl, both of which advance the Legion's story to a different level, yet no one is talking about those things. No one is talking about the new plot threads introduced last issue, either (Cos's huge crush, KK/Shady, Mekt, U-Boy's crimes, etc.) At times like this, it's all too evident there are deeper, pent-up frustrations at work than simple boredom or displeasure with the kids vs. adults premise, leading people to blow things like Shady taking Klar's goggles waaay out of proportion. It's evident Klar got the much better end of the deal; he's now the super-hero of Bando Towers.

I wholeheartedly agree that it's time for more classic action and adventure - I'm impatient for it myself - but seeing it play out in the context of an inherently weak and corrupt society with systemic political, social and generational conflict will make it all the more interesting, imo. And if you want to know why Waid chose to cast the Legion as teenagers, one of the answers - Kara Zor-El - should be as plain as the noses on our faces. If any character in the DCU embodies the confusion, anger and anxiety of an adolescent struggling with the adult mindset, it is Kara, and Waid has created an ideal environment for her to step right into. The fact Supergirl's book just sold out again is good enough reason for all of us to sit back and consider the possibility that the Legion being teenagers is a good thing.

I agree - I remember reading a quote about rebellious youth from a compatriot of Aristotle!
What about the UP dumping its criminals into exile and having kids being born and raised in exile because their parents or grandparents were criminals?(Issue 13)
In the preview of Issue 16, the adult's initial outrage is that the legion stops a terrorist infiltrator rather than leaving it to the UP. I suppose that he would rather be blown up than be saved by these loud youths.

I agree these guys seem in the 18-20 range; Lyle maaaaaaybe a wee bit younger at 16-17.

I think the smartest move Waid could make was to have the LSH allied with the UP, as happened in # 14. Although I am sure it will cause much angst and drama within the team (I'm *really* not looking forward to the inevitable "HOW COULD YOU SELL US OUT, GARTH?" scenes), I'd rather they move past that quickly and just get on with the LSH being able to function as it always has, as a respected part of the UP.

And then throw 'em up against the LSV or the Emerald Empress or invading tree-aliens or something.

Missing the point?

Maybe, but frankly the teen angle was never at the core of the Legion's popularity. Heck, they were young adults in the 70s and early 80s when the book sold best.

The selling point of the Legion has always been that it is a massive group of (good-looking -- yes, we like good-looking Legionnaires) heroes with various powers doing good work. Solid writing (Shooter, Levitz) and creative artwork (Cockrum, Giffen) were the icing on the cake.

While it's admirable that Waid is trying to add a relevant theme (even if it reads like a throwback to bad issues of the Teen Titans from when he was a kid), it doesn't seem to be attracting readers. It's gotten old fast, and as others have pointed out -- Waid has yet to sell the fact that this society was oppressive.

The sales numbers for Legion are consistently slipping -- and now Supergirl is being brought in to rescue the book. Frankly, that character is on thin ice as it is -- thanks to the mind-numbingly vapid stories that Loeb has penned in her own book. I don't know if adding her to the series will help or hurt the book.

I think Mark and Barry have created some interesting things in this new book. Triplicate Girl's origin was fascinating, but then Waid wimped out and brought her back to Silver Age status. Some of the "innovations" have been silly -- especially the Colossal Boy/Micro Lad idea. While the Atom Girl/Shrinking Violet story was an intersting update on the character.

Really, I'd just like to move beyond the adult v teens melodrama.

I think he's sold the idea the society is just short of Hell actually.

I honestly don't think the Legion SHOULD work with these lunatics.

I generally agree with what Charles has been saying. I'll quote something I said at CBR: "I think the Legion's founding principle is "youth" in a more abstract sense, in the sense of vitality, enthusiasm, innocence, novelty, etc. And what they are opposed to is stagnation, or backwardness, or hidebound traditionalism. It's not as simple as 'teenagers good, adults bad.'"

I think a lot of people are missing this point. Some readers have gotten caught up in the obvious conflict between adults and kids, and have ignored the larger philosophical issues behind this conflict.

kcekada, zeroman, and brigort have all hit on the head.

The Legion to me is a group of the BEST heroes of the 31st century much like the JLA. Yes younger than the JLA but the youth isn't the overall theme.

If anything the overall theme is people from different planets, cultures, races joining together for a common cause. DnA stated that in their last series, heck the new X-Men in 1975 (Cockrum!) had that as well.

Eat it Grandpa is a failure. It's like relaunching the X-Men with the original five ignoring everything that came after. Or the Doom Patrol!

People got sick of the Archie Legion and this as well.

Sure I like them young just like I like my sport stars and celebrities "young". I don't want to read about middle aged characters with grandkids and 3 ex-wives. But there is a way to make them "young/exciting" without beating us over the head with it. Or the horrible revolution thing.

At this point I am waiting for Roxxas to show up and fry those darn groupie teens!!! All of them! (ok, except for the Infectious Lass looking one!)

But all of that is still there! The Legionnaires are still the best, still larger-than-life figures. And there's actually more stuff in this version of the Legion about different cultures coming together than I've seen in previous versions.

Matthew, I agree with you, but those who dislike the new Legion will continue to seize on reasons to dismiss it as a failure, when it's obvious that all we've seen so far is the prelude. DC is obviously committed to this direction and Supergirl/LSH is only the beginning of the second stage that will eventually reveal their origins and their true place in the post-IC DCU. As others jump off the wagon, some of us get more interested.

Many people have a hard time with changes ... and I don't think it would matter what WaK did with the LSH ... many fans would have a problem with it ...

I have to admit ... I had a bit of a problem with the generational thing in the very beginning ... especially since I just became a grandfather seven months ago ... but I re-read the earlier issues and came to get into a groove with the WaK Legion ...

I'm really enjoying the new LSH origin which breaks away from the J.R. Brande origin and the new character development of the LSH members ... what I really enjoy is that WaK pay homage to the past and you really have to READ the book to get it's full effect ... if you skim it you miss all the nuances and the subtle passages.

I really enjoy this run and just like when I was a kid, can’t wait from month to month for the new issue to be released.

I've never seen the Legion so much as "the best" heroes of their era so much as "the first". It was about these kids who were inspired by Superman's career as Superboy who formed a club to emulate him in an era which "super-heroes" were no longer commonplace. From that foundation, the tradition of the Legion is built. Eventually, they form things like The Legion Academy to help train others to be super-heroes as well. I guess I see them more as the JSA of the future than the JLA.

Now, while I prefer the Legion have its been established for awhile and settled into its own traditions, I think Waid is doing a pretty decent job of showing us a version of the team in its formative stages.

One of the things I really like about the series is that we have protagonists who ultimately don't understand the import of their actions. Many of them do think it is as simplistic as "young versus old", when the issues involved are far more complicated than that. Other Legionnaires, such as Cosmic Boy and Brainiac Five, do realize many of these complexities. Others, such as Element Lad, have completely different motivations for joining the Legion.

What I find amazing is the inability of many readers to differentiate between the characters' interpretation of what's going on and what's really going on. Part of that I do attribute to Waid's focusing a bit too much on this side of the Legion, but I think he's certainly made the point that the "young versus old" theme is really a superficial part of the plot. Heck, he had Elysion come out and say it.