Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Legion of Super-Heroes #5 (Preview & Spoilers)

Ok, did I totally miss 'the final fate' of the twins? Or was this just another lie... *er* I *mean* solisitation error on DC's part?

1. Why are Garth, Ayla, and Imra on the cover when they're not in the story? Why not Jo, Jeckie, and Brin, who had some serious screen time instead?

2. What was the point of the big mystery bedroom cover for next issue if it's given away in this issue?

3. Is there really only one medikit in all of Legion HQ? Seems like they'd have one in every room.

4. I'm sick of the focus being on Earth Man and the GLs when there are dozens of Legionnaires we've barely seen.

5. Why waste a whole page on Jeckie spotting the Earth Force and then just tell us about her being incapacitated by a scatter bomb off panel? Why not show us with some of that wasted space? If you're going to give us a full page pinup make it worth the space.

6. Earthman's acceptance among the LSH makes about as much sense as Sun Boy going off to join the freaks who committed genocide on Orando in the last boot.

7. The artwork is very inconsistent. At times, inspired, other times very amateurish.

8. I did like it that we got to see several Legionnaires this time around and not just the founders and Brainy.

I prefer Shrinking Violet's costume as it appeared in the Superman/Batman #75, not the way it's drawn in this issue.
It looks much better with the black leggings under the skirt, I think anyways.

I agree about the artwork being inconsistent, especially the last 4 pages or so, it really looked like some other artists drew them. Phantom Girl in particular looked terrible.

From Paul's Facebook page:

I really quite liked this issue. Much better than the last one at any rate.

No that it was perfect though. My gripes -

* Every Legionnaire who previously had red or white hair (minus Polar Boy though who knows how long he'll hold out for) now has blonde hair! What is this colorist's obsession with blondes? How long before the brunettes start going that color too? Dirk's change bugs big time but Nura's was the worst. Please get yourself sorted out Hi-Fi! Who is that anyway? Is that a person? A company?

* Totally agree with Jim re: the Jeckie/Earth Force fight scene. Why waste half a page and many words detailing exactly what happened in a fight when it would have been a lot more interesting to actually see it. First rule of comics Paul - Show, don't tell! The same thing happened later on when Sun Boy said he was the last one standing. I was like 'Huh? Colossal Boy was fine a moment ago.' Off-panel action is annoying.

* Timber Wolf - Power = "claws". Ugh. Hope that goes away soon.

* Sun Boy's costume - I've given it a chance but now I've decided I don't like it. His original was so much better and a true classic.

* Shady & Earth Man - I don't have a problem with the coupling so much as how obvious it was.

Now on to the things I did like about this issue -

* It was quite exciting all the way through. All the sub-plots (even that diabolical GL one) got more interesting this issue.

* Harmonia Li - if she turns out to be a villain (and even the intentional cause of Titan's destruction) then I will take my hat off to Paul and the quick-thinkers in this thread because I never would have seen that coming. Now that I think about it - Circadia Senius' dialogue could be hints that she's the Time Trapper. But I hope Paul isn't going down that road. I'm kinda tired of *shocking* Time Trapper identity reveals that just get retconned a year or two later.

* Speaking of Circadia Senius - great to see him! Always loved that supporting character!

* Speaking of supporting characters - Zendak got blown away! I'm surprised by the grief shown in this thread for him. Maybe he's more of a presence in some of the holes in my collection but I can't remember him ever doing much. I wonder if GiGi or Shvaughn (where is she anyway?) will take his place?

* The Durlan Spy sub-plot - was my favourite part of the issue. Now this story just got interesting! Wasn't expecting that after their lacklustre start.

* The art in the Brainy/Circadia, Durlan/Zendak and (I think) Nura/Harmonia scenes - love it! Is that Francis Portela? Why isn't he the lead artist on this book? It's so much better than Cinar's IMO. Much more detailed and much more expressive too.

* Earth Man - Heaven help me but I'm starting to like him. I refuse to like him if he's a murderer though. Can someone help me out with his 'crimes'. I know he's alleged to have killed Double-Header, but that happened off-panel so could easily be revealed as the Subs just misinterpreting the event or receiving bad intel or something. I know he kept some of the Legionnaires in stasis for a while but I'm sure they can forgive that. Sun Boy had it worse and he seems to be on the way to forgiveness. Polar Boy lost an arm but that was to Tusker I think. Earth-Man's biggest crime as far as I can remember is probably being involved in the death of Karate Kid II (though it was Radiation Roy who delivered the killing blow there I think). Did we see or hear of him killing anyone else?

Looking forward to next issue!

Well that clears that up. If they are writing solicitations for a story that they KNOW hasn't been written yet and willfully publish that solicitation knowing that the storyline could change then it is a LIE. Not on the part of the writer or even the person that writes the solicitations, but definately a lie on the part of DC.

^ That's a little melodramatic isn't it?

Solicitations have to go out for retailing/ordering purposes months in advance, often times before the writers have had the chance to do more than a plot outline for those issues.

And sometimes plots change. Would you rather the writers be beholden to whatever the solicits say even if a better idea comes along? Or that the solicits be blank to avoid the chance of them "lying" to you?

It's hardly a big deal re: this issue anyway. Didn't the Ranzz kids storyline get wrapped up last month? So Paul just decided to end that story a month early. It's not like the solicits said something monumental like "TYROC FINALLY GETS HIS HAIR AND A DECENT COSTUME BACK" or something.

DC can change the solicitations on their site right up until the day the book is published, but they are too lazy and/or dishonest to do so. And that is all I have to say on the subject since I seem to be dragging the thread way off topic, which was not my intent.
Back on-topic: sick of all things Earth Man, sick of all things Green Lantern. Love that Harmonia Li essentially told them to stuff their ring. Looking forward to this book actually being about the Legion and not Earth Man's 'redemption' or GL shenanigans.

The final fate of the Ranzz kids is to be swept under the rug, We learn *nothing* about the status of Validus or the Darkseid curse, which was the only purpose this storyline could possibly hafve had.. The whole thing was pointless and a waste of my time.

The next Green Lantern is revealed as Nobody. The GL fans Levitz sought to attract must be bored to death by now. I know I am.

I don't remember Chief Zendak very well so I don't really care that he got a hole blasted through his chest I suppose we ought to be grateful it wasn't Gigi or Shvaughn.

The Brande-worshipping Durlan terrorists look as one-dimensional as the xeno terrorists, and will probably prove as inefffectual. .This book is in desperate need of a space-whale or something.

So let me get this straight -- Earth Man kidnapped and tortured Dirk but he never really meant to hurt him. How sweet!

Earth Man's rehabilitation is less convincing than Lindsay Lohan's. The only twist that might save this storyline from dreary predicatability is if Brainy's "mood ring" modification altered Niedrigh's personality, I doubt it, though. It's too clever.

Levitz's new favorite trope seems to be women who fall into bed with the wrong guys. Drunkeness and mind-wiping are optional, I guess. There'a double-diss against Mon-El here in that it was Earth Man who flung Mon into the Phantom Zone not so long ago. What kind of woman would sleep with the creep who beat up her boyfriend? Not any woman who has my respect, that's for sure.

I enjoyed the 1/10th of the issue that had Brainy brown-nosing Circadia Senius and the Chronarch;s revelation that Prof. Harmonia Li is a senior citizan (is that why Beren digs her so much?). But that's only 39 cents worth of good (imo) storytelling. I haven't felt so ripped off by a Legion series since Lori Morning guest-starred every other month in the late 1990s. I can't see how this stultifyingly boring and pointless story arc can be redeemed in one more issue.

My comment was sarcastic.
On other threads, saying the same thing that Tinya said about the idea of Shady sleeping with EM, solicited comments that people were judging the poor woman and were being 'sex police'.
I just found Tinya's reaction to be similar to ours, so I pointed it out.
I guess you had to be there.


Kirt can't change his mental illness on his own.
If he's not a killer, he's incited millions to violence and killing.
Hitler and Stalin probably didn't do most of the murders that happpened in their eras, either.

His actions have gone way past 'changing his mind'.
If he's in bed with Tasmia, a true, humanoid alien and not a colonist from Earth, than there's an outside influence and/or subterfuge on his part.
I agree that it's probably the Legion ring but I also think that he's full of ulterior motives.

And Shady with EM?
That's not right, either.

She left Mon for a reason, which she didn't tell anybody about, including Lar.
I've gotten past the shock and I am sure we're going to see more than that she's attracted to him.
She never been a 'groupie' before.
The only one she's ever been shown to be attracted to before Lar, was Querl, and just briefly.
(The original boot, and the reboot, of course. We won't look at the crazy Primeboot.)

I'm more bothered by the fact that the solicit lied.

Earth Man gave Yera an over zealous beating. despite having about 25 powers he could use to disable her.

he's a jerk.

At least you enjoyed that much. I have found far less enjoyment from the entire run (and that includes everything from 'The Lightning Saga' until this point) than you seem to have found in one issue. I fear that LSH has gone from standing for 'Legion of Super-Heroes' to meaning 'Lame, Sucking, Hasbeens'.... and I don't mean the characters.

Sarky, Paul Levits wrote this on his FB page...

"A few comments about how #5 didn't match its solicit story description. Please understand that as comics' production and distribution cycles have tightened more than the solicitation cycle, many solicits are written before the comics themselves, counter-intuitive as that is. In the case of #5, probably before even #4 was scripted, I guess. The info included is always intended to be honest (at least as far as any solicitations for my stories since I returned to writing--I won't speak for the wider world since I don't have first hand knowledge) if melodramatic and sales-oriented."

Here, here! Encore!!! BRAVO!!!!!!!
My hats off to you mate ... you made me laugh out loud when I read that last part!

I could not agree with you more about Tyroc.

As IF he EVER had a decent costume!

I, for one, am REALLY surprised that people lament the loss of the old costume so much. I swear, that old disco king tunic got as much hate as any one I've ever seen get as long as I can remember. Now, suddenly...?

lol!
AND the hair.
But even in the middle of the era, I disliked Afros.

To the last three posts - Love it or hate it, at least Tyroc had a 'look' once upon a time.

His current generic, crowd-scene, background character on page 11, panel 4 of a Fourth World book (who for some unknown reason has Brainiac 5's symbol on his chest) is hardly a memorable 'look' befitting a Legionnaire IMO.

Plus - I'll be the first to admit that Tyroc's old 'look' was very 'of-its-age' (to put it kindly) and that the pixie boots and chest-chains (or whatever they were) were problematic. But a lot of the hate for that costume from fans seems to be because it exposed so much skin. And yet only a small minority of those fans also complain about all the girls' costumes that expose a lot more skin. I find that double-standard... annoying.

Getting back on topic... Earth Man - Yes, he really is past the point of redemption isn't he. I've liked what Paul has done with him so far but it's probably soon time to see his story arc end. I liked him better as a villain anyway.

If it's the ring that has caused Kirt's mood to switch, as some have suggested here, I'll be rather impressed. It also leads one to believe that when he takes the ring off, he will revert to his old ways with an even bigger hate-on for the LSH.

I wanted to learn to like him in the LSH but I do think the Double-Header murder, the tossing of Infectious Lass into the time-stream and other crimes in the ACTION arc are unforgivable.

And I *KNEW* when I read the off-panel taking down of Jeckie that this action sequence was going to draw sharp criticism, especially coming after an unnecessary splash page.

I rather enjoyed the Brainiac 5/Cosmic Boy/Chronarch scenes.

LSH still isn't clicking with me 100% yet but I'm still onboard.

Having both rings sitting on the table next to the bed on the coming cover doesn't bode well for Shady, if the ring is what is controlling his hatred of aliens.

He didn't look smitten on that cover.
brrrr
But, she knows about the rings special properties.
So?

And nobody is beyond redemption.
This situation just isn't the way it's done, imo.

And Tyroc, I dislike women being over exposed in comics, too.
But that's not really why I disliked Tyroc's old look.
It was just sssoooo cliched, Elvis wore it as a costume for his stage performances! and well, ugly.

That doesn't mean I like his current costume.
It's too generic, imo.
The hair, or head, is fine with me.
Derek on Criminal Minds has the right idea though, his hairstyles have changed many times over the years.
No Afros, though.
For which I'm thankful.

And still without tracks of Star Boy/Man, Xs and Night Girl.
At least Violet has been seen in action.
I hope that they do not leave of side Luornu, with his new power she is one of the legionnaire more powerful.
I Don't want to see her only of instructing in the academy.
Matter Eater Lad come back soon.
And please to change Brin's horrible suit seems that it has ballet slippers.

Just because the ring affects his mind doesn't mean he instantly goes back to normal when it's taken off. It could very well be an effect that wears off.

It's also possible that Shady doesn't know about the ring's effects, since Brainy was being pretty vague about it.

So, now that I've had a day to read and re-read the comic, I'm intrigued by the art. I wish pages would be individually labeled with which artist worked on them.

The closeups on Tinya's face at the top of 35 (talking after the combat), and of Shady in profile at the bottom of that same page are pretty nice pieces of work. Shady-in-profile, in particular, is a nice image.

Sun Boy looks pretty impressive on page 3, as well, where Sensor is telling him that the people are clear and it's safe to incinerate the wreckage.

Violet's costume is interesting. I don't love it, but it's kinda neat, and it doesn't annoy me like some of the other busy, busy costumes.

Colossal Boy, on page 2? Dude. Lose the girdle. Or cummerbund. Or whatever the hell that thing is. Earth-Man wears the same fugly thing, like three or four leather belts stacked on top of each other and going all the way up to his diaphragm, and it looks dorktacular (and uncomfortable, and, yes, Gim, it does make you look fat).

I said previously that Cinar seems to have a vehement dislike of drawing wrists, because almost everybody has wristbands, little elfy gloves, etc., but I'm also now noticing that he's not real big on waists, either. All these extraneous belts and bands and buckles are really breaking up the flow of what used to be some pretty streamlined costumes (particularly on Lightning Lad, Element Lad, etc.).

Speaking of Earth-Man (which I was, 'cause of the cummberbund), on page 36, he's got super-human strength, enough to fold back a ceiling like it was made of wrapping paper. Where did he get that? He's travelling with Sun Boy, who is the last person he borrowed powers from, and it's been long enough the only powers he should have at the moment are those of Sun Boy and perhaps Sensor Girl...

I guess he could have borrowed Ultra Boy's powers, off-panel, but hasn't enough of this comic happened off-panel, what with Sensor and Brin getting jobbed off-panel?

Earth-Man is beginning to feel like Superboy Prime, whose powers are whatever is necessary to allow him to look cool, and whose weaknesses seem to go away the moment anyone attempts to exploit them.

There's some pretty convenient stuff going on, with Earth-Man. He happens to show up first, so that he could give some lame speech to Sun Boy (who, to his credit, didn't seem to even acknowledge it, which makes it even funnier, since any meaning to the speech is stolen by Dirk's utter lack of reaction), even if, of those dispatched, Ultra Boy should have shown up first, followed by Cosmic Boy, Tellus, Quislet, Chameleon Boy, Phantom Girl and Shrinking Violet, all of whom can boost their speed through creative use of their powers (or firing the little thrusters on their tiny spaceship...).

Earth-Man (and Shady) should have arrived dead last, not 'got there first.'

It seems that Kirt moves 'at the speed of plot,' as JMS would say, going exactly as fast as (and being exactly as strong as) necessary to enable the scene to work as scripted.

Not thrilled with Brin getting beat up off-panel, but those dudes suits did appear to have rocket-boots, and, I'm gonna guess, some augmented strength and protection. This is the 31st century, that sort of stuff probably comes standard in swimwear. Brin's not known for his invulnerability (although he is pretty tough), so I could buy some doofus in powered armor flying fist-first into his head and knocking him out.

Agility is his thing, and, like Spider-Man, it's never been about how hard of a punch he can take, but how darned hard it is to actually land that punch. Perhaps, with eight armored goons rocket-punching into him, Brin ran out of places to dodge... Better scripting would have made that explicit, and could have been squeezed into a single panel, perhaps taken from the two entire pages that were otherwise frittered away on Circadia Senius impoliticly referring to a lady's age.

On that note, two thoughts;

Naltor has some pretty friggin' awesome background scenery. Alien and organic and wow, purple and green? From the world that brought us fashion-plate Nura? Oh, my. Naltorian fashion-sense must have skipped Nura entirely, to our great fortune.

'The Guardians, least wise of the immortals.' Really? Less wise than the Controllers, who build (and lose control of) Sun-Eaters for fun and profit? I mean, let's face it, Harm, there are some pretty flat-out dumb immortals in the DCU...

Yeah, the Time Trapper and Vandal Savage come to mind instantly.