Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Spoilers....... Issue #34, Childhood's End

OK you guys, someone explain it to me. What do you all see in Lightle's art? I just don't get it. Don't get me wrong, he's not awful and I know he hangs round here occasionally so I don't want to be harsh just for the sake of making a point, but I simply don't see the appeal. I find it very confusing in places, the anatomy of some of the figures is just... well, bizarre (Karate Kid in his big fight especially) characters seem to have no consistency in terms of their height and proportions (Shikari and Umbra both appear to shrink and grow between average human height/proportions and being about ten feet tall with very stretched bodies) and there's just something about his faces that doesn't appeal to me. Possibly the pouty lips he gives everyone. Or Lyle's bouff seventies hairdo. Also what the hell is going on with Karate Kid's shoulders in the panel where we first see the Legionnaires? Shikari has pretty odd baps in the panel where she's looking at Wildfire too. As does Wildfire for that matter. He seems to have bigger hooters that 'kari (regardless of the fact that pouty, pert Shikari is a bloody insect for gawds sake. Can't blame that on Steve though.)

Oh, and I still *hate* Umbra's 'exotic dancer caught in a shredder' outfit too. Ick ick ick.

All that being said it's nice to see an artist who finally manages to make Val actually look something other than caucasian.

The story... meh. It was a little confusing (when exactly does it take place? They talk like Wildfire has been missing for ages but if that's so why the huge gap in time between the last issue and this), and I didn't really feel much for any of the characters, but then no-one really got to do anything much so that's not a huge surprise. I mean it wasn't bad, but it just didn't grab me I'm afraid. From his posts here Keith seems like a really nice guy, very friendly and obviously very enthusiastic for the Legion but I just didn't feel involved in the story.

Oh, and with regards to Wildfire's look I have to say i prefer the Coipel version too.

Guess I'm really on another page than most on this issue. I just read it again and liked it even more than the first time. I thought the art was very dynamic and descriptive.

I didn't care much for the relevation about Wildfire, but other than that...

sigh

I don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with Keith's story. Unfortunately, the timing for his debut was off. With so few LEGION stories left before the re-imagining, I think fans would have more appreciation for a story that tied up some of the many loose ends (like DnA's take on the future of Cub) than a stand alone story at this point. Especially when we can't be sure it will have any impact at all in future stories. When we've been stuck for months with a bunch of heroes flying around but not saying much (except a select few) than 9 pages is is too long to wait for the appearance of the handful of Legionnaires that were in this tale. Instead some character interplay in the forming of the "stealth squad" would have been very welcome.

Nice art and I've really come to appreciate 1-issue standalone stories in LEGION.

The Wildfire revelation I found totally unecessary, but it *may* come into play on Waid's re-imagining...

It's also unfortunate that it came immediately after D&A's umpteen stories featuring an egomaniac with hordes of minions. I might not have minded the story so much if it didn't feel like it's already been done to death and so recently too.

Well, big thumbs up from me.

Steve's art is as beautiful as always, there's something in his figures that I really like. Hopefully we'll get to see more of him in the new series!

As for the story, well, I agree with others thinking that some foreshadowing would have been nice; I didn't even know that Wildfire was missing, so I was less than extatic when he was found. I am a bit concerned about his weakened status, I'd really hate to lose him from the rooster in the new title. Otherwise, I liked the story for what it was, a nice self-contained issue. It's nice to have those once in a while. And it was nice to see an active Karate Kid, he gets relegated way too often to the background.

After the disappointment of DnA's last two issues, this issue was fairly enjoyable. Not groundbreaking, but serviceable as a fill-in.

As far as the Legionnaire's limited exposure in this issue, this may sound kind of odd, but, as I saw it, the story wasn't really about them. They didn't change or do much outside of what was expected of them. The true "star" of the story was Vox, who does change (he rebels against his father). I get the feeling Keith wanted us to care about him, to think that just maybe he would accept the Legion's offer to make a difference on Qward -- and then to make us feel the Legionnaires' disappointment when he refuses. At least I think that was Keith's intent. If so, it fell a little flat. We were never really given a chance to care for Vox, as we did with, say McCauley's son way back in SUPERBOY # 214, or so. Whereas McCauley was a spoiled brat, but one who ultimately repented, Vox was an evil character through and through. No redeeming qualities.

It would have been nice to get a set-up in the previous issue about Wildfire's disappearance. The lack of such a setup had me checking to see if I'd missed an issue. It's not a good thing to be confused at the outset of a story. (It does remind me, however, of Timber Wolf's "death" in SUPERBOY # 197, which was never seen until he'd already returned.)

Artwise, Bevis makes some good points about Steve's anatomy. But I can overlook such things because the art was easy to follow and dynamic. Some standout scenes included the two pages of Lord Theron's reaction to Wildfire's emergence and his battle with Wildfire, and the third page, with Theron addressing the crowd.

Capt. Dallas -- I also thought the two skeletons flanking Wildfire had a Christ-like motif. Don't know what the purpose of it was though, unless Keith and Steve meant to suggest that Wildfire has now "ascended" into heaven (e.g., gone home) at the end. If so, the allusion fails because Wildy certainly doesn't leave Qward a better place.

So, Wildfire is the new Kid Psycho. Feh. I would have hoped for a more original cliff hanger.

I welcome a compressed story after the stretched-out ones we've had.

Vox is an interesting villain-in-the making. I felt there was some sense of current events in this story - fueling hatred in children, who will grow up to be your enemy and blame you for the ills they have suffered - regardless of the intent of your actions. The Stealth Squad went to Qward to rescue Wildfire, who was captured, imprisoned and being consumed to power Qward. Their intentions were honourable and justified, but the end result was to leave Qward in the dark, cold and hungry again. The kid won't blame his father for that, he blames the Legion.

In the sense that Wildfire was giving his life for the people of Qward, perhaps that was Christ-like. Or maybe it was his persecution that evoked the crucifixion image. It was a nice image but I'm not sure what it meant.

As usual, I enjoyed the small touches - the footprints indicating Invisible Kid had been in the crowd assembled to hear Lord Thalon, the talk among the unseen Legionnaires (you can just tell it's Karate Kid speaking, although I wasn't sure who was "sprocking" - Tasmia?), Cham-as-Tellus! Lovely! And Lyle & Tasmia's rebuke.... Shikari's hand reaching for Drake's shoulder (I think) as she's told to open a threshold, Brainy's hand on his shoulder with the inadequate "I'm sorry".

I liked the art, some pages more than others, although I did notice the guys seemed kind of "breasty" at times. The small panels showing each Legionnaire's face, as Cham goes after Vox (page 10) really gave them some individuality. (Lyle could lose the sideburns but I liked Brainy's messy hair.) One thing I've noticed recently, not just with Lightle, is that the Legionnaires aren't all the same height and build. Doesn't that make sense! So if Bevis is remarking that they "change size", which these story-oriented eyes didn't observe, that can be jarring.

So... how is it that Shikari opens thresholds all by her lonesome again? Is it a little button on her belt?

In all seriousness, I enjoyed the light story, but like most of you, I found it extraneous in light of what is to come.

And once again, that's really all I have to say. It's interesting that these last 3 or 4 stories haven't spurred any emotional or intellectual reaction at all. It's not that I'm totally "meh" about them... I guess for me they're the equivalent of Legion White Castles. Yummy, but cheap and forgettable.

I liked it.

I usually favor longer, complex stories, but as a one-shot, it was fun.

I disagree that Wildfire's abduction needed to be shown. In comics, we're so used to seeing everything; there's nothing wrong with some things happening off-camera, for the reader to figure out.

A reader of my review of Legion #34 on silverbulletcomicbooks.com sent me this email:

That's a pretty cool explanation. I like that!

I want to thank everyone for the thoughtful comments on the issue. Was it perfect, probably not, but I'm convinced that it was worthwhile. I know that a great deal of love of the Legion and respect for Legion fandom was poured into its creation. Of course, I'm not just talking about my contributions to the issue. I know that real care was taken by Keith, Ronda and the gang.

A few thoughts that I'd like to throw out for your consideration ...

1. Despotic rulers who only care for their own selfish agenda, and yet are fiercely defended and blindly followed, will always be relevant ... today more than yesterday.

2. According to the reference I've seen Karate Kid wears shoulder pads. Let's not confuse elements of clothing with anatomy.

3. Vox did not despise his father because Thalon was evil, but because he felt betrayed by him. He couldn't stand confronting Lord Thalon's weakness. We, as readers, may have hoped for Vox to be rehabilitated but we set ourselves up for disappointment when we pin our hopes on cliches.

4. J.R.R. Tolkien once said (concerning The Lord of the Rings), "As a guide I had only my own feelings for what is appealing or moving, and for many the guide was inevitably at fault." For my money, TLOTR was one of the most enjoyable works of fiction that I've ever read. Was "Childhood's End" the best comic book story that I've ever read, or was it drawn better than all other comics ... Naaah, can't say that it was ... but feelings and opinions differ. If you liked it, I'm happy to have had some part in its creation. If you didn't like it so much, well, better luck next time, ol' bean. Tolkien went on to say, "Some who have read the book, or at any rate have reviewed it, have found it boring, absurd, or contemptible; and I have no cause to complain, since I have similar opinions of their works, or of the kinds of writing that they evidently prefer." Wow! ballsy guy, that Professor Tolkein.

5. Yes, the Legion did liberate Qward from its cruel dictator, and they will be hated for it. Once again, this idea seems very timely to me.

6. This story was not, to my knowledge, a parable or an allegory, although it might be perceived as topical. Wildfire was not intended to represent Christ, although the comparison might stand on a superficial level, as Wildfire's suffering benefited the corrupt people of Qward. The biggest dissimilarity would be that, unlike Jesus Christ, Wildfire was an unwilling sacrifice.

7. The anatomy of the male Legionnaires was too "breasty?" Oh, please ... Did this observation apply to Cham or Lyle ... maybe the guards with their breast plates??? If this critique is only in reference to Wildfire then I will have to disregard it. I'm more concerned about representing a variety of body types than making all my characters fit anyone's preconceived notion of what is the ideal shape.

8. I'm sure that Keith could have crafted very interesting and entertaining sequences leading up to the capture of Wildfire. Would it have made the story better or just longer? Like other eternal mysteries, such as; how many licks does it take to reach the soft chewy center of a tootsie pop, we may never know the answer to that question.

9. On the question of whether or not I draw the Legionnaires looking too young ... The funny thing is that I've noticed that artists tend to age their characters as they themselves grow older. I've tried to make sure that I haven't fallen into that error. In fact, upon looking at my previous run on the LSH, I often come away thinking it odd that I drew the characters looking much older than I was at that time. Forgive me if I react with some glee to the criticism that I have drawn these teenagers looking too much like teens.

Once again, thanks to everyone who took the time to express themselves on the subject of Legion #34. Even those who didn't find it completely to their liking have given me much to ponder. I also want to thank the many who read the issue and have yet to express themselves on this message board. Your opinion of the work does matter, even if you keep it to yourselves.

Our hope was to create a pleasurable experience, and a valid contribution to the long history of the Legion of Super-Heroes. In the end though, it's just another funny book, innit?

Long Live ... y'know, the Legion an' stuff.

Steve Lightle

Based on Lightle's design -- which color scheme do y'all prefer?

Neither - the more I look at this design, the less I like it. Between the underwear, the "floppiness" of the entire suit, the way it looks like that headpiece should come off the second he moves it, the distracting trim around the faceplate.

Sorry Steve, but eugh.

I guess Im in the minority cause I loved it...

I'm not sold on it yet either. Maybe cuz it looks so much like Cockrum's but the black instead of orange is too drastic (maybe grey like the Coipel armor would be better). Too bad we didn't get to see more of it.

I would've liked if Brainy gave an explanation for the new suit. It's not like his suits come off the rack. Is it still weavewear? Does it have any capabilities that weren't in the other one? Does the faceplate open on this one open??

I do -NOT- like WILDFIRE in black.

Well I finally read this issue and with all due respect to the creators - I really didn't like it.

There were some touches that I quite liked - the faux-Tellus appearance, the way the Legionnaires were first introduced, the choice of members used, the fact that it was a one-issue self-contained story, and the art (with one BIG exception mentioned below) - but they were few and far between and overall I felt this issue did more to reinforce the rot in my love for the Legion that this entire series under DnA has begun.

I won't go into all of it but here are my main gripes -

* at a time when us fans are *desperate* to read some characterisation, ANY characterisation, about our favourite heroes there were way too many pages at the beginning showing us characters we've never seen before, don't care about and will never see again.

* sorry Keith but I found a lot of the dialogue between those Quardians to be really bad too.

* Wildfire. I can't believe no one has mentioned this yet. The current Wildfire is made up of two people - Atom'x and Blast-Off. Who the hell was the guy we saw in the battery cause it sure wasn't either of them. Someone else mentioned that those 2 skeletons were meant to represent Atom'x and Blast-Off but if so, that means the Wildfire that this team knows, *and that we've been reading about for the last few years*, is DEAD! So why are the team just letting a complete stranger (and where on earth did he come from anyway) onto the team in place of their dead friend? The more I think about this subject the more I REALLY don't like it.

* that "What is this... 'friend'" speech at the end! OMG that was so children's after-school special. That speech should really have been saved for an issue of Scooby-Doo or something, sorry.

* the last 'ominous' page, with the 'cliffhanger' of Vox possibly returning. This type of ending is just way too cliche, especially in this series.

* and finally, possibly my biggest problem with the issue and this is to do with the art. My two absolute favourite costumes of the reboot Legion were Moy's Umbra design and Coipel's Wildfire design - and Lightle has been the artist to change both of them! And into such UGLY replacements too. Umbra's now a skanky-ho and Wildfire's gone from looking super-cool and unique to looking completely boring and generic. Ugh! Sorry Steve, LOVE your art in all other areas but when it comes to costume design its a resounding 'F' I'm afraid. Costumes are a big part of my enjoyment of a character and these two once favourite charcaters have both dropped big-time out of the list. I really hope Kitson is able to put them both in good outfits again - but remembering his Empire designs I'm not getting my hopes up. (The irony of this whole subject is - the two absolute worst-costumed Legionnaires, Chameleon and Shikari, were also in this isse but Steve didn't touch their costumes! WHY?)

All in all this was just another 'miss' issue for me I'm afraid but I will end this review on a positive - loved the colours Rhonda!

I would like to hear people's comments on the third of my bullet-points above (among others if they want)... Wildfire is DEAD and someone else has taken his place and none of the characters or fans on this site are talking about it!!!

What's going on???

I don't think Wildfire is "dead". That person's comments about the skeletons representing Atom'x and Blast-Off was conjecture as far as I know and even if they were, they were just representational -- I don't take it to mean that this isn't the same Wildfire we've known since the reboot. As far as his look goes, he's a fused entity composed of pure energy -- I'll grant artistic license to what he "looks" like (personally, I'd rather he be a ball of energy but I suppose his subconscious might influence his form as something humanoid).

Okay, Blacula, I'll bite.

Correct, Wildfire is the convergence, the merging of two super-heroes killed by Modru.


Well, why would it be EITHER of them when, again, Wildfire is a MERGED person? The best example I can think is the Star Trek: Voyager episode "Tuvix" in which due to a transporter snafu, Tuvok and Neelix merge into one person, Tuvix. Tuvix had all of Tuvok's and Neelix's memories and skills, but a single consciousness.

Okay, I don't understand your assertion here. One interpretation of the two skeletons is that they REPRESENT Atom'X and Blast-off, NOT that they ARE Atom'X and Blast-off. The skeletons are symbols of Wildfire's merged identities.


Okay, then just look at the two skeletons as two anonymous unfortunate Thunderers who Thalon has sent to their deaths. That's certainly a viable interpretation too.

Just because the skeletons may REPRESENT Atom'X and Blast Off doesn't mean some stranger has taken Wildfire's place. For your interpretation to be valid, you would have to convince me how a "complete stranger" could obtain Wildfire's powers.

From the Pulse interview with Keith Champagne (link originally posted by Lightning Lad - on page 3 now):

"Wildfire is my favorite Legionairre and I felt, since his reintroduction to the team, the character was a little bit confusing, at least to me. So...is he two people merged into one? What kind of energy is he composed of now? These were questions that bugged me and when I wrote this, I decided to completely ignore them and, with editorial blessing, just treat Wildfire as if he were the same character I grew up reading. So for all intents and purposes, the is the 'classic' Wildfire and I hope he's treated as such from here on out."

Works for me. I disliked the two beings in one and am perfectly happy to just jump over that part of continuity. Not every change needs an explanation, IMO.

Unfortunately I don't know how to cut and paste in order to reply to people properly on here so forgive me if this post seems a little 'all over the place'.

OK so maybe those 2 skeletons aren't Blast-Off and Atom'x. It was certainly not made clear in the story who they were meant to be and I also thought they were 2 Thunderers until someone on here quoted someone else that they were the afore-mentioned heroes.

If they are just Thunderers (and I hope they are as I actually like the current Wildfire and his origin about a thousand million times more than I ever liked the preboot Wildfire) then I guess my problem is with Lightle's depiction of Wildfire in his humanoid form as some weird white guy who certainly wasn't the black Blast-Off and didn't even look anything like the white Atom'x. As the combined essence of those 2 guys his avatar (for want of a better word) should definitely have been mixed race. This may not be an issue for a lot of people but it is for me and it annoys me that one of the few minority characters on the team has suddenly become white.

As for Keith's interview - What was confusing about Wildfire's origin? 2 guys with similar powers are vapourised by a mage and there essences merge together to create the energy hero Wildfire. That seems pretty simple and straight-forward to me.

So anyway, I guess my problem with this issue has shifted from "Why aren't more people angry that Wildfire has been killed and replaced by some stranger?" to "Why aren't more people angry that 1 of the 4 minority Legionnaires out of a total of more than 25 has suddenly had his race changed?"

Boo to the new Wildfire and his costume! Bring on the reboot!

What happens when you merge two spirits/energy forms into one??? I'm willing to speculate that a new third form, composed of elements of each, would result. I also wrestled with the notion that Wildfire's "form" might be an idealized vision composed of the ego visions of each. The thought process is much more complicated than the quick view I'm outlining here, but I'm concerned that I'd bore you all with a detailed description.

As for the reworking of Wildfire's classic look; it seemed very appropriate to me. At first I had intended to simply return the original Cockrum design just as Dave first presented it. Instead, at the last minute, I decided to give it a slightly more dramatic coloration. Orange and red may look good against the colorful backdrop of a sea of Legionnaire costumes, but if Wildfire is ever to grab attention as a solo star (there's always that chance) he will need more dramatic contrast to his costume. That's my thinking, for what it's worth.

I've never felt particularly comfortable judging another artists choices, and so I haven't previously expressed myself about Coipel's redesign of Wildfire. It's ironic that a design that harkens back to the ORIGINAL has been referred to as generic. That was exactly my first thought upon seeing the "robot soldier" design that Wildfire received after the reboot. He looked to me just like any armored Science Police officer or robot drone. It's a perfectly fine design aesthetically speaking, but it just seems inexpressive and cold to me. It struck me as overly mechanical and lacking in personality, as if it had come off of an assembly line. On the other hand, I've always been intrigued by the fact that Cockrum's original Wildfire suit took on "life" only when it was inhabited. It didn't simply look the same whether or not Wildfire was animating it. The loose fitting gloves, which I always insisted on drawing as cloth rather than "Iron man" style armour, always seemed much more indicative of a human soul beneath the containment suit. The loosely draped cowl around Wildfire's neck seemed like a unique expression of individuality, which is why I returned it after Giffen had fazed it out so many years ago. One last thought on the subject; the armored/robotic look doesn't look futuristic enough to me. I'm sure many would disagree, so I'll offer an explanation. Robots in DC's 20th century world had just the same design elements. These elements seem inspired by George Perez's designs for armour (from Lex Luthor to general all purpose drone soldiers)and seem linked to that era. A much more futuristic science is suggested by a containment vessel that can look like a simple garment when not inhabited, but can react to the presence of it's wearer by taking on the physical anatomy suggested by its occupant's self image. THAT, my friends, is a science we do not yet possess, a science that might actually exist by the 31st century.

When all is said and done, I'd probably still have tipped my creative hat to Dave Cockrum, in this way, because of the respect I have for him and his role as the co-creator of Wildfire. Mr. Coipel will certainly receive tributes for his many original creations in time, but Wildfire belongs to Cockrum.

Of course, I fully respect anyone's right to disagree with my creative choices. Your two dollars and fifty cents entitles you to that. But these are some of the considerations that informed my decisions. I hope that sharing them at least helps you to understand where I'm coming from.

Steve Lightle

What minority ? It's the XXXI century.

Somebody wanting to see more of Wildfire's postboot origin.
Now I've seen everything.

I liked the Legion Lost look more than the classic, but it was pretty clear to me that it was meant to be temporary. And i LOVE the fact that, now, the costume LOOKS "alive" only when the Drake is in. And the qwardians' eyes.
Good work, Steve.