Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes JSA/MAGOG Special: Starman inconsistencies

In a DCU where Smallville never knew Superboy - whether that title was used in the 30C or not - and where the original Supergirl never existed, means that all of the stories that have a Smallville/Supergirl content have to be retconned.

Adv 282 was entitled "Lana Lang meets the Legion" so no way could that have happened in the current DCU. equally the Adv 250/251 visits to Superboy and Supergirl, Adv 269/270 (Mordru) etc.

DC have retconned Mon-El's origin - this is no different.

Oh I agree with you to an extent SA Lad. Based on what we know now, many of the time traveling stories couldn't have happened the same way if at all...but I don't think it's a case of DC having retconned themselves into a corner continuity wise...they've deliberately been vague.

For instance after IC they said there were rumors of a mysterious Superboy around Smallville...so that does seem to indicate he had some sort of limited career in the 20th century.

I see that as DC giving themselves wiggle room should the Siegel litigation ultimately go their way or if some kind of deal is reached.

If some kind of deal is reached I imagine we'll get a much cleaer picture of just what happened and what didn't.

I'd be willing to bet that what's really delaying LO3W is the litigation with the Siegel family...

Because basically they can set the continuity anyway they want it at the end of this story....the Time Trapper can do that for you.

Something else else just doesn't add up about these delays...

Geoff Johns? He meets his deadlines.

George Perez? He's not as fast as he used to be...but he's not this slow either, not on his worst day.

I think they're waiting until they know how the court is going to rule before firming up the continuity.

Sorry, Superboy, but if the litigation is the main reason for pushing L3W to 2011, this will be pushed even longer. There is no way the Superboy litigation will end any time soon.

It can't be the Superboy litigation -- DC is about to republish Adventure #247 for the 10th time with a new cover featuring a costumed Superboy.

Yeah, from what I understand, DC is good to go with the 'Superboy' franchise again.

I don't know that I really agree with that Ric...if you look at the delays, they seem to coincide with release dates later in the month after the final hearing..for instance Sept 9th I believe as originally set to be the date for the final court day...and LO3W #2 was originally set to come out later in that month...the case got pushed back and DC went ahead and released LO3W, but now issue #3 is set to be released later in the month that the case is set to be heard in January.

No...Johns and Perez are not the reason for the delays, they are both too professional to do that...it's DC legal that's behind this IMO.

That's a pre-existing work...not a new one. Big difference there.

You haven't see any new work featuring Superboy...

For instance we saw the modern re-telling of Adv #247 in the Action Arc...but at no point did we see Superboy, even though when he came back from his first appearance with the Legion...he clearly had the Superman uniform on underneath his clothing.

In the new continuity what we know is that regardless of what happened in Smallville....this Superman did appear as Superboy in the Legion's time.

Yet we still haven't seen that depicted...

Why?

Simple...because DC will have to pay more for that depiction.


We only see reprints...the royalty and licensing fees are cheaper for those than they would be for new works featuring the character.


Guys...we are talking about large sums of money here...I think under the current legal ruling the Siegel's get 50% of the profits of any new work featuring Superboy...when you add in what DC has to pay the creators to create the work, and their royalties...

It's pretty obvious why DC is skirting this issue...


It's always about the money guys, especially with Superman.

They can use the name Superboy, as long as they aren't using it for the original Superboy...but they still can't use the real Superman as Superboy without paying the Sigel's some jack.

Go check out every reference to the name Superboy in LO3W so far...

There's a reason you haven't see any new work featuring the original Superboy, even though he clearly had adventures with the Legion.

Anyway...this is set to go back to court for resolution on I believe Jan 9th.

After that DC will have litle choice but to reach some type of agreement.


Geoff Johns and George Perez are not the reason for these delays.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Superboy isn't even on the court agenda yet, according to this.

The January 12th court agenda concerns the "Alter Ego" issue, i.e., piercing the corporate veil to decide if WB and Time-Warner are responsible for paying if DC Comics defaults on payments due to the Siegels for recapturing the rights to Action #1. Accounting of Profits (how much is to be paid) is scheduled for March 24, 2009.

In April 2008 the judge set aside all rulings about Superboy until the Superman trial is over. They're not going to tackle that issue for another 4-6 months, at least. The ownership rights to Superboy involves a separate contract entered into by Siegel and DC, iirc.

More likely the LO3W delay has to do with stuff that's rumored to have already gone down -- Didio forcing Morrison to rewrite the end of Final Crisis.

Your information is accurate Tromium. However my feeling is that this ruling might impact the Superboy case(as the last Superman ruling did and in a beneficial way for DC). I also think that the chances for a settlement or licensing deal will increase after this case. DC sounds like they are about ready to settle but are just holding out to see what can be gained from any additional rulings.


The reason this case will not drag out IMO, is that under the current rulings the Siegels are inline for 50% of all profits, at least of DC's, for basically any appearance of the traditional Superman character...almost any deal will better than that for DC.

That ship sailed when the court-mandated settlement negotiations went due south last June. Hence, they're back in court in January - because neither party will give a millimeter unless it's wrenched out of their hands.

And when it's all over and the judge has lain down his gavel, the DC/Time Warner legal establishment will file appeals and attempt to postpone the inevitable until Kingdom Come.

It seems to me DC chose the worst possible time, from the point of view of the financial sustainability of the Legion franchise, to re-attach the LSH to Superboyman. Assuming the court rulings aren't overturned (I doubt it), every story "Kal" appears in- - and DC is surely relying on him to boost the numbers -- will cost the company more money to produce than ever before. ADVENTURE will be the Johnsboot Legion's "tryout" book with a rather short grace period, I suspect. If it doesn't maintain robust sales, chances are LSH will be swapped out for another "star" so fast it will make your heads spin.

Maybe tying Superboy more tightly to the Legion franchise is going to be used as part of the court dealings?

"Oh, your honor, it's not just Superboy, but everything he's touched. Look, we had to cancel the Legion book! We not only have to sue to get the character back, but also all the money we're losing by having to cancel books!"

Plus it makes a great excuse for not publishing a Legion book for Didio. "Oh, I can't, those mean Siegel/Shusters won't let me! I so badly *want* a Legion book." [evil snicker]

Exactly my thoughts when I saw the announcement. If DC were totally committed to the Legion we would be seeing LSH V6 coming soon and not Adventure Comics (featuring the Legion... for now)

The Magog Kingdom Come Special had a surprise inside for me today..Starman!
Geoff Johns and Scott Kolins chronicle a piece of the story that brought Thom to the 21st Century. Starman takes a page to tell of his origin whle he's at it retcons in the schizophrenia.

The next page has (for the first time that I remember) a panel involving his Legion tryout! That was kind of cool. New readers learn that he joined the Legion, fell in love with Dreamy, killed a guy and was then expelled.

We're then treated to 3 Brainiacs (who don't seem to like each other much) as they create the starfield costume and a bit of dialogue about the Tornado Twins that doesn't reveal much. I do like the fact that the B5's act like jerks to each other, it's weird but it works for me.

Next up is a page with the Lightning Saga Legion on the run from Sci-cops and a hint about Thom's mission in the past. Brainiac 5 mentions the coming crisis and Thom's "unsettling but vital task in the 21st century."

It ends with Starman mentioning the Legion Code against killing and doubting whether he can complete the mission he's been sent back in time to perform. He puts his flight ring back on and begins taking the steps he believes he'll have to take to get there and get the job done.

It's short but it brings together the hints we've been picking up on and points toward an event that will conclude the current crisis. There's not much actual information though, just a new clue.

I was surprised by this story's inclusion but I was pleased to see it there (I just now noticed the blurb on the cover) . It's a six page short story and it gives us a look at Thom and the reason he's in the JSA. The classic Legion page is nice, it even includes a "mysterious" hero that you can't see but you can tell that he's wearing a red cape.

There's nothing ground breaking in the story but it's alright and if you're a completest you'll probably have to get it. However with any luck it'll be included in the TPB when it comes out.

Huh? My copy didn't have any of that!

This was discussed here . <strike>I may just merge these threads.</strike>

EDIT: Merged!

??
Maybe I read too much into these things.

edit: D'oh! It just came to me that you might be thinking about the Kingdom One-Shot which is a different book. There IS a scene in that one where Thom gets a job as Danny Blaine and has a long (for Johns) conversation with Mr. Terrific about his mission in the 21st century.

Yep, YK, I got the One-Shot. Sorry about that.

Hey no sweat. I'm glad I got as chance to point out that there's another book you might want to pick up that's somehow a piece of the Lo3W tapestry.

Any comments from anybody or am I the only reader silly enough to buy this comic?

I'm still fascinated by all the Tornado Twins references being dropped throughout this story. I'm guessing that somehow a Flash - Legion crossover is the next big DC event coming up in '09. The Flashes, the Speedforce, XS, Impulse, the Twins and lotsa Legion might make me a happy comic book buyer this next year.

Please, please, please(!) include Mara Williams! Her one appearance during the Bierbaum's run was so cool. I'd love to see her again.

I've bought the whole JSA Starman run and the links to Lo3W have developed neatly.

With XS and Impulse heavily involved in Lo3W, I suspect that that series will be the crossover with the Flash family.

No, you're not. As soon as I make my next run to the local store, I'll get it. I have bought all the JSA's and JLA's latest run and unlike many wanting the alternate covers, I enjoy the Alex Ross ones more. I do miss Michael Turner though.

I'm also a Flash fan.

Quick question on the Kingdom one-shot. In the picture in back of the Earth-2 Justice Society Infinity (ugh I hate that name) who is the woman with the Hourman-esque costume?

Since, I've been reading all of the issues and she hasn't appeared yet...I assume it's someone Johns thought up but didn't give a name to yet. I'd have preferred to have Rick there. Or at least they could have added a few of the would-be Infinitors from back when they were created.

Not a fan of JSI either. Did they really need a name change?