Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Legion of Super-Heroes #3 - SPOILERS

Egad. I need Cliff's Notes for some of you guys.

New origin for Tharok? After all, robotic body parts *do* run in the family...

Doublechinner, you make a good point about the essence of the characters. That's where some of the disconnect comes in, though. For me, a characters essence (personality) is directly tied to the experiences of that character. It was the character's reactions to certain events that initially helped define that essence.

Paul plans to explore the death of Lightning Lad in Adventure. Saturn Girl's reaction to his death helped define her as a character. History and events are important.

Dan Didio said a few years back, that he thought there was one true version of most of DC's characters, and he wanted to restore that version. Okay, fine. However, in the process, history and events have been treated fairly recklessly. So, the question becomes whether he and Johns have truly been successful in restoring those "true versions". My answer is no, they haven't. Going back to the post I made a few pages ago, they have been selective about when history and events are important, and in all honesty, have been dismissive with fans when their views on what events are important have differed.

So, I think Paul is correct to revisit Great Darkness and to fix or clarify the backstory. The story is a major event in the history of the team and the individual characters. It's difficult to treat the essence of the characters with respect without treating their history with respect.

I think that there have been quite a few comments requesting that DC follow up on the New Wanderers concept for the reboot.

That hope takes the place of demanding them back, I think.

I like the retroboot and have no problems with it's continuing.
I'm not even hung up on the continuity stuff.
I just know it's not the 'original' and accept the fact.

Actually, I was married with little children (70s) and didn't get the Legion then.
And my collection that I rebuilt was stolen years ago.
I had no idea that the baby that was taken by Darkseid was ever returned!

Wait a minute, I just remembered in the TMK era that he was quarentined(sp) with Ivy and that he had the Validus virus.

That's still completely different from having two boys running around together, imo.
But, thanks for bringing up the point since it made me remember.

I agree.
I suppose that I feel that Levitz isn't trying to build on the essense of the characters.
He's said that he just likes messing up thier lives.
That's okay with me if he sticks to that building process rather than just forcing them out of character to do whatever he wants.

I think that's possibly what he might be doing with Tasmia IF he forces her to LOVE Kirt.
I know that she wouldn't do that, EVEN if her emotions wanted to, and I can't see her even having those emotions.

Plus for me, Umbra is the true essense of Tasmia, the Shadow Champion.
I felt the reboot captured a number of the Legionnaires true essenses and potential, including Brainy, Jecka, Vi and Nura.

I think that the Primeboot got Rokk and Lyle absolutely right.
sigh

Really? Primeboot Lyle over reboot? Not me. Agree about Tasmia and possibly DNA Nura. Don't see if for Vi, at all. Or Jeka, really. I like her as a unique character in her own right. New Wanderer/Earth 247 Brainy, at least, seemed like Querl Dox; unlike subsequent characters bearing the name.

Primeboot Rokk was all temper. I think NW Rokk the one who we actually saw earning the awe Legionnaires bestowed on him since the 1970's.

I think Primeboot Ayla was probably her at her best. Possibly Tinya, though her power-switch turned out to be too difficult to really depict adequately.

Knowing that the New Wanderers (and Primebooters, too) are 'out there' and not just vanished in whitespace... hmmm... well, that there's been little noises made here and there about the *possibility* of eventual stories about them makes big appeals on their behalf much less immediate. Even before we met them as 'New Wanderers', there was that glance in Infinite Crisis of the reboot LSH, now slotted to dwell on 'Earth 247'.

Unlike Zero Hour, when the 5YL and SW6 Legions were just gone. No appeal, no possibility, no tomorrow. That's a much harsher end and one that nags at a fan much more than the absence of a hero or team in 'limbo'.

I do like that the Reboot and Threeboot characters weren't "whited-out" as Mystery Lad says. Both are just loaded with potential. However, I'm extremely skeptical that either will have stories written about them again.

The only glimmer of hope for Reboot is the continued presence of Gates and XS. With those two still around, the possibility of a Reboot re-connect is always there. I half expect, though, that their past with a Legion of another reality to be completely swept under the rug at some point.

The best hopes for Threeboot are dot-REBELS because it was actually Threeboot Brainy who helped kick off the series and future appearances of the otherwise repugnant Superboy-Prime from the same world (hopefully, Threeboot wouldn't reappear just to be slaughtered).

Another hope would be the untold story of the original Legion of Three Worlds adventure. In fact Adventure Comics would be an excellent place to tell that story should Paul be so inclined.

The most depressing thing about the Retroboot, though, is Lyle being dead because I miss so much how he was written in the reboot. I also miss how Lu was portrayed there as well. Never has either character felt so vital to the Legion and so vibrant as they were in that version.

But, hey, both of the other 'boots are still out there somewhere, so hope remains.

I also hope this current Levitz storyline does preserve the Ranzz family connection to Validus. I suspect it will, or Paul wouldn't go there. I just think the revelation brings even deeper pathos to Garth's run of bad luck. I'd just rather it be done without either of the twins being lost to the family again. I would be happy with one of the scenarios we discussed above or even with the story putting Garridan's history Validus firmly in the past with no further recurrences.

But is any new reader (or newish reader) gonna know that Lightning Lad is the hard-luck Legionnaire? He wasn't in the 3Boot. He kinda was in the 2Boot, although I would argue he was the most heroic, and one of the characters who grew the most. Johns' portrayal of the current Lightning Lad is the intuitive, emotional hero, in contrast to Cosmic Boy and Saturn Girl. And of course, some or all can be valid and consistent portrayals of Lightning Lad. Or they might not be. I'm really looking to Paul to show me what he thinks is essential about Garth's character.

I hated the Primeboot Ayla and I'd be happy to NEVER see her again!
I can't decide if I prefer the reboot or the TMK Ayla, I'm afraid.

I liked the reboot Lyle but not as much as the kid Lyle we saw in Prime.

And to me, the pre Sensor Girl Jeckie is a non-person, much dispised by me.
That's why I liked the snake and then loved the Naga.
I could care less about the sexy part, the major reason that I think most of the guys prefer the original.
ugh

I also hate the Vril Querl of the Primeboot and nutso Brainiac of the original/retroboot. One's a rip off and the other's a cliche.

Phase is the best Tinya, imo and I liked her best in the reboot.

And the DnA Nura is the ONLY Nura, I think.
I can't abide the narcasistic creature of the original boot.
The only interest I have in this Nura is her possible connection to the Dreaming and I doubt that is going anywhere soon.

Of course, this all just my opinion.

Edit:
Oh, and I can't stand the original Rokk, either.
And I think of the DnA Garth as the one, true, Garth. I actually cried at his death while mourning the lost Jan, too.
sigh

I can't honestly say I hate any version of any of the Legionnaires.

Other than Prime Querl who was a copy of Vril, the girls bother me the most.
Probably because I AM a girl and I just hate it when they become cliches or weak or boring.

Like, Vi was sweet and learned to be powerful and independent in the reboot and smart and tough during TMK but either hard and servile(strange mix) in Prime or cringing and weak and a pitiful victim in Prime and the original boots.

Anyway, maybe my language was too strong.
I didn't mean to be offensive, just forceful.
I don't know why, exactly.

I loved Threeboot 'Atom Girl.' She had a strange relationship with Brainy, whom her people regarded almost as a god (for rescuing them from servitude to the other Coluans, apparently), and yet she treated with casual familiarity, and even, in a few cases, mild contempt, which I thought was a very unusual stance.

It very much made me feel that she, like the other Imskians, was all hero-worshippy of Brainy, until she actually got to work with him for a length of time, and then her dreams died *hard,* and now she finds herself not thrilled to relate with other Imskians, who are like squeeing Brainy fans, and she doesn't want to tell them that he's just a person, and not even a terribly nice one, at that. So she ends up either politely nodding as they enthuse about how *awesome* it must be that she gets to work with the amazing Brainiac, wishing that her fellow Imskians would shut the hell up, or, she's already blown up and told them off, and now they think that she's just crazy, not to love the great savior of Imsk, and maybe she doesn't appreciate or deserve the honor of working with him...

Threeboot Salu seems to risk being in the position of the domestic who writes the tell-all book about some celebrity, only to have the fans of that celebrity freak out and start sending them death-threats for being a big ingrate and trash-talking their employer or whatnot. (Although it's not clear from the Threeboot if Salu ever did 'write the tell-all' or is just humoring her fellow Imskians, who are all still caught up in Brainy-fever.)

It was a funky dynamic, as you say, a bizarre mix of 'hard' and 'servile' (although I think servile is a strong term, since she flat out called him crazy and opposed him on the 'trap Dreamy's soul and raise her from the dead' scheme) since she seems to be consistently 'on Brainy's side,' and yet shows notable disrespect for him.

I agree. Jeckie was always my absolute LEAST favourite of all the Legion; she had the same problem that Marvel's Scarlet Witch endured for decades where as much as her power was quite awesome, she was an utterly useless stereotypically hysterical female a lot of the time.

I think it's amazing the difference that overcame that character when she was reinvented as Sensor Girl. She quickly went from being my most hated to one of my favourite characters. I guess it goes to show that there's no such thing as a bad character, just uninspired writing?

I also agree about the part you said regarding pre- Sensor Girl Jeckie. She was a bit of a damsel in distress, not always mind you but sometimes.
The only difference between her and reboot Jeka, in my eyes, was that the latter was a snake, so that made for some interesting character development. Aside from that she was pretty bland, well except for when she "lost it" after being altered to appear more human near the end of the reboot's run.

I prefer the current version of Jeckie but she needs to lose the mask and the codename ... doing that shouldn't change her Sensor-esque effectiveness. I rather liked "Princess Projectra" or "Queen" now, whatever.

[snip]

Interesting!

I think I lean more towards another kind of dynamic, though. Maybe a big sister-like role. She wants to protect him from people who don't understand or appreciate him enough. But it's precisely her own admiration of/fear of what he can do that compels her to try and keep taking him down a peg, for his own good (and for the good of the team).