Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes SUPERMAN Secret Origin: Totally tits or the pits?

That was never stated as their purpose for being, nor Superman's, that I'm aware of (until maybe the reboot or movies, in Kal's case.)

Those were Wonder Woman's mission goals, again, mostly since Byrne.

Supes came to Earth because that's were his rocketship brought him.

The Legion was made by Brande, originally, to be a force for good in the universe, protectors.

There weren't really any true 'aliens' in the Legion until Lightle invented them.
The LSH wasn't even really interracial until Val got a make over and Tyroc was very briefly introduced!

I totally disagree that they have to stay and be killed/attacked because Earth needs them as examples.
Earth's had examples, lots of them, for all the good it does.

grumble, grumble

But... but... that's what the Red Tornado said their mission was! And he should know. After all, a future version of him, Wildfire, is one the team!

GASP! Something else else screwy might be wrong with all of reality, now that you mention it. Things just don't quite seem to be the way I remember them when I read the Legion as I was growing up. Maybe the book's continuity hasn't changed, but some sort of Trapper has been messing with us - the readers' - reality. Yikes!

lol

And in my case, I have to deal with 'senior moments', literalness and not recognizing sarcasm when I see it.

I'm about two for two today.
sigh
Which is a good day for me.

Don't feel bad, Shady. Sometimes I have senior moments that are so bad that I've forgotten just what it is that I've forgotten--and I'm only 41 (and a research officer, too, God help me!).

I wouldn't say "clearly." Being based upon Superman is reason enough to stay on Earth.

Isn't it a bit "preachy" to stay on Earth to "teach" them correct ways and what's fun about a planet a 1000 years in the future that still needs to learn what we're struggling to get through now? We have other books for that.

If xenophobia will be a onsey-twosy problem, I do not see why the greatest protecting team in the Universe needs to base themselves on Earth for that primary reason, it doesn't add up to me.

For me, simpler is Legion is on Earth because that's where RJ Brand will be and that's where Superman was. The three founders were coming to Earth because that's where opportunity is (will be). All the rest will be kismet. For me, that simpler scenario is better.

I thought # 2 continued the tits trend.

Other than my bitter disappointment at not seeing Gim in his space cowboy outfit (or Reep or Lyle in either of their groovy get-ups) I thought #2 was pretty titty too!

I'd say more Tits than Pits by about a ratio of 85/15!

I just don't remember so much anti-Legion sentiment before, at least with this version -although it seems like this is a totally new version yet again, however similiar. The 5 year gap out of the picture.

This IS the five year gap!

i agree here, i like thinking that the legion sort of came to be by accident.

my biggest issuse whith xenophobia is that i cant imagone the people will still be that dumb. i can see it being a here and there kinda thing pop up around a few people, but come on. look how life was 100 years ago 200. life for humans has changed so much in that span of time, that if humans were that dumb in large groups of people. a thousand years from now, then i would want the rest of universe to wipe it off the map, i also dont think that aliens would wont to deal with humans if xenophobia was such a problem that when alien kids pop up, that a few humans run out as scream 'get off my planet' humans wouldn't be worth the effort, and they could find a way to not deal with them

i see xenophobia happening just when earth starts to open to all life, i get that. but it its still happen after alien life has been there for a while why come to earth if its just filled with non tolerant people, there would be other plants for aliens to go to

i dont want my legion to preach..that's boring i don't want to read six page of dialogue about racism (i have real life for that, real books better more thought provoking books for that), do story's where they show that it wrong, one of the best issues the legion vs racism, was the one with the dieing Andromeda, and brainy has the cure in his hand and about to save her life, and he ask her to 'look at me and tell me i'm inferior.'

It's all so two-dimensional.

I could completely understand Earth humans having a problem with Titanian telepaths, who might have *VERY* different notions of mental privacy, or with Durlans, who have very different notions of fraud, theft of identity and misrepresentation. Simarly, Coluans and Bgztlns and Somahturans and the people of the Sorcerer's World could be extremely intimidating and / or creepy to deal with.

But for Earth humans to suddenly be predjudiced against Winathians, who supply like 80% of their food? Against Braalians, whose sports they like to watch and whose mineral imports they hungrily devour for their powerspheres?

That's just sloppy writing.

Agreed. It is OK for a Time Trapper plot line. Just as Earth outlawing the Legion is good for a Universo plotline. But once the plot is dismantled normality has to take over and that is that dealing with and living next to Winathians and Braalians etc is everyday life.

But this makes me wonder. Is John's xenophobia an allegory with current attitudes in the US post the Twin Towers? Living 5,000 miles away it is difficult to judge the current feelings in America but the European press seems to think that anti Asian anti Moslem feeling is rife.

Like marvel's anti communism in the sixties, is Johns' Earth reflecting current times in America?

I wouldn't say there's a widespread anti-Muslim feeling in the U.S. these days. There was a bit immediately after 9/11, but my impression is that it's largely subsided.

I'd say tensions over Hispanics/illegal immigration is a much more pressing issue for the average American, and a much more likely candidate for an allegory. But even that's much more economically driven than racially driven.

I disagree. I think xenophobia is very much alive in the U.S. today. Look at the percentage of the population that thinks Obama is secretly foreign born, which is 20%+ in the American South. People call him a terrorist, a muslim, a socialist, etc. You can say this is racism, or just politics, but it crosses a line with these people. Is it a majority of Americans? No. Is it enough to be dangerous to the rest of us? Absolutely. And the shootings at Ft. Hood by a deranged muslim Army officer will only make things worse.

If Johns is intending a post-9/11 race metaphor, he's about five years behind the curve. It's past timely and moving into 'just in the nick of too late' territory.

BTW, I still enjoyed S:SO #2, though I found it much less iconic and emotionally powerful than #1. I thought the Legion stuff was entirely consistent with what Johns has shown before. I distinctly remember reading the line "what are you doing tomorrow?" before. I didn't think Brainy was nearly as dickish as Vril Dox or the 3Boot Brainy, but I will read it again to see. I don't think a super-smart guy forcefully warning "irresponsible teenagers" about threats to the spacetime continuum from time travel paradoxes is overstating things at all. In fact, the best argument that no-one deployed (even Brainy) is that since there wasn't a paradox immediately, Clark was SUPPOSED to travel to the future all along. Which fits with the idea that the Legion is actually really important to the growth and development of Superman.

What I find MUCH more interesting and controversial is the idea, both here and in Adventure Comics, that Lex Luthor was always a sociopath. I had always operated under the notion that Lex was brilliant and troubled and turned to crime and evil because of anger and resentment towards Superman. It's what gave me hope that someday the two would actually reconcile. I think this was always Eliot S! Maggin's take on Luthor, and I'm always partial to him. But here, Lex is a nutjob from the getgo. He's now murdered his father, and he hasn't even met a super-dude yet, or lost his scalp and facial hair. To me, this is a BIG change the classic interpretation of Lex, and I'm not sure that I like it.

As I understand it, Dan Didio handed down an editorial mandate that Luthor would never be anything other than a villain, and that *any* Luthor could never be good, in any way.

It's actually what prompted me to write a fanfic with Alexis Luthor joining the Legion, just to thumb my nose at Didio's black and white proclamations.

From my experience and bias, that's just wishfull thinking by a european press. They maybe want us to have more bad going on than is. Face it, bad relations between the US and the Middle East are good business for Europe.

Anyhow, in my corner of the world, attitudes towards muslims is probably same as it ever was, pre or post 9/11 and knowledge is no doubt higher.

Of course, it's a small corner of the world, the one I live in.

If a writer was using this perception as general climate, than he needs to find new friends.

If anything, Waid's Legion seems like a far better post-9/11 metaphor than Johns, with the whole choosing-security-over-freedom aspect.

Anyway, given Johns's general approach to writing comics by mixing what he considers the best of different eras, I'd say the obvious source of the xenophobia/Legion as a symbol of interplanetary togetherness trope is the reboot Legion. He's just taken this aspect of that version of the team that he liked, and grafted onto his "retroboot" team.

Another way to look at the xenophobia trope -- in the current Superman books you have the whole Gen. Lane thing stoking fear of Superman & Kryptonians, something that has been in the works for awhile. I think continuing the xeonophobia in the Legion stories is a way to align the current and future stories. But it does stretch credulity if there is more xenophobia in the 30thC than the 21st.

This is moving away from the Silver Age Luthor and closer to the Golden Age version (pre-Superboy tie in origin). In the golden age, Luthor was an adult red haired criminal genius when he met Supes.

In Smallville, Lex was progressively evil with each choice that he made.
His inner child was confused and abused, with the adult Lex searching him out to destroy what he considered his last weakness.
But Smallville really isn't in continuity.

About xenophobia and 911, the people I know considerer the Iranian and Afghanistan Jihad to be very real and a life or death struggle that will increasingly effect the US.

I don't think that's what's affecting John's approach though.
I agree with some here, that the references are to Lane and the New Krypton War, which they mention.

It's not an unusual approach in SciFi, really.
The original Star Trek certainly touched on xenophobia and it was very much seen in Enterprise.

There was a whole series about aliens who lived on Earth and tried to fit in, I can't remember the name, right now.

Anyway, aliens vs humans is not an original point of view, which is one of the reasons that I dislike Johns taking the Legion there.