Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Legion Of Super Heroes #1

Future King is now ready to be initiated into the LDMBP! The Legion of Drunken Message Board Posters, Cobie's one true lasting legacy here on LW!

In typical fashion, no one can remember our meetings but we know many a good time was had!

The first Legion of Super-Heroes comic I ever read was the first issue of the threeboot legion, so I feel a little sad that my original team isn't continuing. That said, I enjoyed what Geoff Johns did with the Legion in the Superman books and Legion of Three Worlds, and I'm familiar with this version of the legion from reading several of the archives.

All in all, I thought it was a great first issue. I liked the team dynamic. The idea of adding Earth Man to the team is interesting, I see a lot of good drama coming from that, especially now that he is a Green Lantern. The art was also great. Looks like I'll keep reading The Legion.

Lucky--you have a bit of a unique perspective around here, coming in with the threeboot (so does Caliente--post more, Cali!). I definitely would love to hear more of your opinions as new issues come out and what you think about them!

Bought it today, read it, loved it!

I agree with y'all who have said reading this new first issue is exactly as though Levitz had just picked up where he left off....it could be an issue from the 80's, and not in the sense that it feels dated and mired in nostalgia, but more that it is comfortable in its own skin and the characters and the universe are familiar; but at the same time, new directions are being explored.

I have a feeling the writing and art are going to gel more as time goes by, and will only improve.

Very happy camper!

I haven't bought the Legion regularly in over four years--since the threeboot began--and have read only sporadic issues since then. Nevertheless, I bought the new LSH # 1 yesterday.

I also haven't read all 16 pages of this thread yet, so forgive me if I tread on some well-worn paths. I'm also assuming that most of the major spoilers have already been spoiled. If they haven't, then read no further.

One could have hoped for a more original premise behind the launch of a new Legion series, particularly one that marks Levitz's return after 21 years. The hubris of viewing the creation of the universe is one of DC's oldest tropes. It always goes badly. Here it's used as a vehicle for destroying Titan. In the old days, creators sold comics by killing off a beloved character. These days, they sell comics by destroying whole worlds. The destruction of Titan is as much of a sales gimmick as the GL ring on the cover.

Gimmicks are usually employed to cover up the lack of substance in a story, and, sadly, that's mostly the case here. There's a lot of sturm und drang as the Legionnaires go through the motions of expressing emotion, but little of it seems significant. Cos and UB blow up at Gigi. Imra blows up over Garth. Brainy blows up at everyone. And Titan just blows up.

All of this is a set up for Earth-Man's choice over whether or not to join the Legion or the GL Corps--or both. I actually liked this development somewhat--the Legion is forced to take on a new member for political reasons, a member who represents the antithesis of what they stand for. This is a way of challenging the team, making them grow (I hope) by confronting a situation they haven't had to confront before.

Of course, the idea itself is hardly original. Governments have been trying to control who's on super-hero teams at least since John Byrne's Avengers run back in 1979. I also don’t understand the politics behind the Legion's "compromise." I understand that the Legion must take on Earth-Man so the team can keep its headquarters on earth—but why? Such a move would make sense only if Earthgov thought that Earth-Man’s presence in the Legion would placate or disperse his followers. But are Earth-Man’s followers that numerous? What has happened to turn earth people against aliens and/or the Legion?

It's a pity when one has to come into the middle of a story in the first issue.

Levitz paces the story very well, and the dialogue reveals much of what needs to be revealed. A few Easter eggs (“weirdo Legionnaires”) dot the landscape of the issue, but they do not distract from the story, as Levitz’s fanboy obsession with trivia often did in the past. Glimpses of several Legionnaires are provided in concurrently running subplots—a Levitz trademark.

Unfortunately, these glimpses don’t potray the Legionnaires in the best of light. The worst is Brainy, who looks and acts as if he’s still insane. None of the Legionnaires come off as remotely likable or even identifiable. Even Imra engenders sympathy only after (cliché of clichés) her children vanish before her eyes.

LSH # 1 panders to the worst expectations of comics fans: Destroy a world. Get rid of the children. Have everybody behave like a jerk. In some ways, this issue reminded me of Giffen’s first LSH in 1989—except that the current issue lacks the subtlety of complexity of that issue. One might see how the situation Levitz sets up could easily lead to falling out, disfavor, and disbandment of the Legion that Giffen depicted. But instead of coming off as daring and original—as Giffen’s vision did—this issue feels like its regurgitating the worst in-bred and self-referential tendencies that the DCU has to offer. I can’t imagine new readers being drawn in by this. Even as an older fan, I felt as if I were reading something that looked and sounded like the Legion but was missing its heart and soul.

Well, at least the Cinar/Faucher artwork is nice to look at.

True, but I think this is also a way to explain Levitz's own lapses or selective reinterpretation of past stories.

In the text feature, Levitz makes a parenthetical comment--"(we once believed [the Legionnaires] used jet packs and flying belts, but in all probability the flight ring was their most important device from close to the team's inception)." I thought this was a very telling comment. On one hand, it seems to be an unnecessary retcon. On the other hand, it is probably meant to excuse any inconsistencies readers find in Levitz's own stories, such as Imra's telekinesis.

Levitz has always employed this sort of storyteller's perogative to be inconsistent. I remember a similar explanation from the first Mayfair Legion Sourcebook, I think. Levitz wrote something to the effect that Legion stories are "channeled" to present-day creators who reinterpret them in light of their own understanding of the universe. That explains inconsistencies in early Legion stories such as Cos's magnetic eyes.

For what it's worth, I actually like the team's development from the use of jet packs to flight belts to flight rings.

Me, too.

I suppose it's tempting, in light of how technology has changed since the Legion first appeared, to try to excuse the antiquated use of jet packs and flying belts in the earlier stories. But such excuses are both unnecessary and detrimental. They suggest that the earlier stories have to somehow be "fixed."

However, not everything needs to be fixed or explained away. Doing so kills the mystery.

I like the idea that the flight rings were developed later, by the team itself (through whatever combination of Imra, Mon, Brainy and / or Lyle one wants to fancy), and were themselves upgrades from fancy expensive flight belts (which were still advanced enough that they made acceptable consolation prizes for heroes who didn't make it to be Legionnaires!), while the every day schmoe would likely only have a small jet-pack dealie, if they used personal flight devices at all, instead of skycars and stuff!

On the other hand, I was never a huge fan of the 'molecule-thin transsuit' that Ultra Boy could wear, even when being shot by space cruisers, and not have to worry about getting damaged...

On the other, other hand, not wearing any sort of transsuit, or, at least, carrying a backup life support system means that people getting their arm chopped off by the Persuader (or ripped off by Earth-Man) are going to have to worry about their life-support going buh-bye with their Flight Ring...

(Cosmic Boy, Colossal Boy, etc. often have pouches, in the latest art. I wonder if they keep spare life support gear, handcuffs, etc. in them, for such practical situations?)

I'm going to keep saying it: there is no evidence yet to support the idea that Imra has telekinesis--it's all speculation.

This falsehood cannot be inflicted on the common LW lurking class.

Feel free to add your speculation.

What do you believe she's doing with her telepathy to the doomed couple on page 24? Collecting their last will and testaments?

What do you believe broke the window on page 27? The power of love? String theory? Gas pockets? An invisible batarang?

Can we inflict upon them our inexplicable fascination with Matter-Eater Lad, Infectious Lass, Dr. Landro's Hot Nurse and Saucy Jones?

Those things are akin to teaching people how to read, or even breathe.

*If* there is any TK, it's coming from her flight ring usage. Because there is nothing in the story to suggest she has the ability to use TK other than some misinterpretations on the artist's part. Given the larger context of Legion history, the burden of proof on this debate is on people trying to suggest she has it.

I would say nothing in the story says she has it, and we know Levitz has shown Legionnaires use the flight ring to do TK-related things before (re: Dream Girl), so if you feel the telepathy does not explain things (of which, you make some solid examples, I agree), then the flight ring is the culprit.

Only if Paul outright says: "Imra has telekinesis powers", then we can all attack him relentlessly for such an awful decision.

I'd actually rather *not* use the flight ring explanation, just because I really don't want to see Legionnaires regularly using their flight rings to simulate TK.

Anyway, it's been along time since I've read the Dream Girl scene, but I thought it was mostly a matter of being able to control the ring itself from long distance?

If the art had depictedImra using her Flight Ring to accelerate her palm or fist into the window, or even to 'fake' super-strength for a moment, by pressing her ring-bearing hand against a falling column and 'flying' upwards against the pillar, to slow it's fall, I'd love that Imra's that clever.

If Levitz says 'no TK,' I'm thrilled that it's just an artefact of writer / artist collaboration that wasn't quite ironed out. Either the artist, by changing the layout of the scenes, or the writer, by adding text boxes or 'speech bubbles' showing what Imra was telepathically saying to those doomed people, could have made those three panels clearer.

I still like the idea that Imra is using the victim's TK to save themselves. They're in shock and she's in control enough to focus their direction.

And it looks like her knee went into the window first as if she jumped into the window and thus shattered it upon impact while mentally searching for her sons.

^The real culprit then, is the editor, on whose shoulders these errors fall on.

And I agree, that is the very likely thing that happened.

A point I was trying to make but maybe wasn't clear on is there is nothing that suggests explicitly Imra has telekinesis. For instance, one can look at those panels and say "Imra has magnetism" or "Imra has the ability to animate inorganic objects". It's the readers who are putting the notion of telekinesis forward. This is based on the (very natural) assumption of telepathy being related to telekinesis. I understand that completely, but its still an assumption readers are making.

Ooh, that is my favorite explanation!

[snip]

Ha! I think it's funny that we both fell off the wagon because of this comic.

Also, I think my expectations weren't that high, so that may be why I enjoyed it more than you did. After so many years out of the loop, I'm mostly just relieved that I could follow the story and not be completely lost.

Question for HWW: will you be picking up #2? (I hope so, of course).

I enjoyed the first issue, and I am willing to give Levitz some time to a) deal with the stack of stuff he has been handed, and b)get back into his stride.

I am enjoying the characterisation so far. Brainy makes sense. I know a few scary-bright people, and this is a good approximation of how they operate.

Imra's actions and reactions are well written and believable, and I will wait for the rest to see how they play out.

No, this is not the Legion we last met 20 years ago. So what? They've changed, and so (I hope) have I. They are old friends we haven't seen for a while. I for one am happy to relax, chat, and find out what's new.

If Imra's using her flight ring to do the "TK" then why isn't she pointing her hand at the falling debris/window instead of gesturing at her head like she does when using her mental powers?

I hope she does not have TK and that it WAS just an artist's mistake.

However, if she DOES have TK, there was a perfect opportunity to explain it and perhaps it was being hinted at. Again, I wish I could cite page numbers, but when Aven tells her he's amazed at the degree to which she's developed her powers, that could be a hint that she is indeed now telekinetic. A more obvious sentence could've been added afterwards to spell it out explicitly but perhaps Levitz is being coy about it, or was waiting for her to demonstrate her newfound power to surprise us.

I"m all for upgrading the weaker member's powers to make them more useful but IMHO, Imra is not on the weaker members list. Her telepathy has always served her well and she's always been in the center of the action. Nor did I think Shrinking Violet's powers needed upgrading in the last reboot. Her shrinking powers are versatile enough on their own. Projectra also did not need the Sensor Girl upgrade. IMHO.

Phantom Girl, Shadow Lass, and Dream Girl DO need upgrades imo. Shadow Lass had one as Umbra, but now that's out the window. Long before White Witch joined up I used to champion the cause for Dream Girl being the resident witch. In her THIRD appearance (Adv. 351) she says that "she's [White Witch] taught me a few spells." Why not build on that? Instead she was kept in the background for decades until the fans elected her leader and the PTB were forced to get her out of mothballs.

In only one scene that I can remember PG acted like the Vision and partially solidified while phasing thru a monster I believe it was. She thinks "I've been meaning to try this for quite some time." I think it was in that awful Circus of Death story. Why was this never done again? When she was a ghost she could disable electronics a la Kitty Pryde. But again, that reboot is history now.

Duo Damsel has been upgraded, but I want an explanation for it. Not just "something weird happened."

Matter Eater Lad and Invisible Kid could use upgrades too. Not sure what would be a logical extension of their powers, other than ME lad firing a ray from his mouth as a result of eating the miracle machine perhaps. Maybe IK could use that ability to see into and travel between dimensions he's used a couple of times to simulate teleporting.

jimgallagher wrote:

[snip]

Quote

...Matter Eater Lad and Invisible Kid could use upgrades too. Not sure what would be a logical extension of their powers...

Over at That Other Company, they upgraded Susan Storm-Richards by having her generate invisible force fields (and simple objects, as well); also, I believe she gained the ability to sometimes turn objects and other people temporarily invisible.

Frankly, the first character that comes to mind when I think "needs an upgrade/diversification of some kind" is Dawnstar.

I wish they'd just lose Dawnstar. She's never appealed to me and I've always maintained that Dream girl, Saturn Girl, or some tracking device on the ships could be used to track anything that needed tracking. Not to mention the several members with super senses. And they wouldn't be limited to tracking in space only.

She's awfully haughty for someone with such limited abilities IMHO. And if she says "path" one more time I think I'll puke.

Eh. I hate to see any character just killed off or tossed on the scrap heap. And it's okay that not every character is cuddly and sweet 100% of the time. I just want her to be a better combatant or... something other than just the tracker whose powers always peter out just at the moment they'd be most helpful.

And I'll hate that stupid Cosmo Girl get-up until the day I die.