Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Giffen is doing LSH Annual!!!

Another Levitz/Giffen interview about the Annual.

Most interesting quote? "Keith and I working together and then Keith with other collaborators has played with the Shrinking Violet and Lightning Lass characters and their relationship a certain amount, and as you can see from the cover, they're back in the forefront of this story. They kind of get their glorious moment in the process, which is nice."

'Glorious moment'? Are Paul and Keith going to (re)establish Vi and Ayla as a lesbian couple? Dare we hope?

Also, the context in which they speak of the Emerald Empress here makes it seems like this is Sarya. Wasn't it specified elsewhere that this is a NEW Empress? Am I misreading this part of the interview?

Thoughts?

Not in love with seeing Vi and Ayla on leashes, but it's a dramatic cover, that's for sure!

I'm going to go against the majority vote ( at least I think I'm in the minority) and hope that Ayla stays with Brin instead.
It was cool to have Vi be with Ayla for a while there, but I kinda missed the classic relationship Ayla had with Brin ... I always felt she was a bit harsh and unforgiving of him back when she was going through that bit of a rough time in her personal life.
Let's face it, the guy was crushed after she dumped him.

P.S. I'm also a romantic softy type myself, one who hates most kinds of change ... especially involving the Legion I grew up with as a kid.
So there!

Huh. I thought Brin deserved the dumping, myself. He's pretty much my nominee for Most Exasperating Legionnaire, at least in that incarnation.

*snacking on crow as I type...*

Well, I have to counter my first gut feeling of probably not enjoying Giffen's upcoming annual by saying that based on the Emerald Empress cover that recently came out I will definately be buying this book! I liked what I saw (so much better than the Legacies cover) and I'm hoping the interior artwork is as equally impressive. I have a good feeling it will be though.
His ever-evolving art style has really struck a positive nerve with me this time. Ladies and gentlemen I give you the new Jack Kirby!
(well, sort of...)

It's 1000 years in the future, with people from different planets. Why not a three way open relationship.

The kids nowadays call that an "OT3," Dev.

[refuses to share own OT3 until after at least three more beers]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Dev Em:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by future king:
<strong>I'm going to go against the majority vote ( at least I think I'm in the minority) and hope that Ayla stays with Brin instead.
It was cool to have Vi be with Ayla for a while there, but I kinda missed the classic relationship Ayla had with Brin ... I always felt she was a bit harsh and unforgiving of him back when she was going through that bit of a rough time in her personal life.
Let's face it, the guy was crushed after she dumped him.

P.S. I'm also a romantic softy type myself, one who hates most kinds of change ... especially involving the Legion I grew up with as a kid.
So there!

The Annual's release date has been changed to January 12, 2011.

NOooooo... That's so far away!

(Unless that date has been brought forward from the previous release date, in which case, um, Yay!)

An alpha male might like to have two females in a 3 way relationship, but I think it would only really work for him if he had relationships with both females in a 3som.

But, that would be for Earth humans, and none of these are actually from Earth, but rather, from Earth colonies (still?) that have changed genetically, rather drastically.

Just looking at how they've been portrayed over the years, Ayla might be comfortable with an alpha male and alpha female as mates, but if she is, why would she object to Imra?
She wouldn't HAVE to share in her brother, as well, but just staying with Imra and Brin.
And if Ayla were like that, why would Garth care if Imra 'coupled' with another couple, since he'd most likely have the same moral set as the rest of the Winathians?

Salu, I don't know about, because she was made into a lesbian by a terrible experience and a neglectful male relationship.
I've seen quite a few of those 'changes' with women over the years.
A lot of them that I've known have been fairly unstable in their orientation.

The whole thing is a little more complicated than just going to bed with each other, really.
If you want it to make sense, anyway.

I don't think that I can even begin to express how OFFENSIVE I find that. No One is 'made into a Lesbian' by any experience. They either are atracted to one gender, or the other, or both. Salu was obviously atracted to both and ended up with Ayla, but could have just as easily ended up with another guy if one had been emotionally close to her at the time. The same goes for Ayla. Your attitude about the fictional characters and the real-life women you briefly mentioned is VERY disturbing. And disrespectful. And WRONG.

But the experiences she cites ARE what we have "on paper"/in print that are the events that happened prior to Salu and Ayla's relationship.

Those experiences happened, but they did not 'make' her a lesbian. She had those experiences, she appearently was atracted to females as well as males and she was close to Ayla who was also appearently atracted to females as well as males. The closeness developed into something more and they ended up in a relationship together. I also notice that you didn't mention that Candlelight also spoke of "quite a few of those 'changes' with women over the years" that presumably refferences REAL women and not fictional characters. Further stated was "A lot of them that I've known have been fairly unstable in their orientation". How is Candlelight qualified to make this determintion? I hate to use such terms, but this looks like an obvious case of stupidity and bigotry from where I am reading.

You are reading too much into her words I think, reading things that she isn't saying.

And I don't think you call this an obvious case of anything other than someone typing in and posting observences she has made.

Agreed.

I was reading these stories as they first came out (ignore pun). As I understand it, Levitz did not intend to put Ayla and Vi in a relationship, but along with many other readers at the time, that's how I interpreted it. The trauma Vi went through enabled her to find her strength and go to the other end of the emotional spectrum becoming very aggressive. Vi had been a victim of the "Luornu Syndrome" in which she pined for an unavailable guy to notice her. I don't think that Duplicate Boy's (or Ayla's) gender had anything to do with it. She was in a relationship that wasn't working so she tossed it.
It was only later that I found that many fans had seen these events as Vi "turning" gay. As a gay guy perhaps it was unrealistically optimistic to assume that 1,000 years from now sexual compartmentalism would not still have a social function; however, I could understand how in the present people (readers) might tend to do that. Attitudes may have changed since then, but those original impressions still linger. So be it. The social evolution that has occurred since then has astounded me and filled me with gratitude, even more so because it shows no sign of stopping until equality has been realized.
I the years that I have been a member of Legion World I have never felt anything but support for me, my sexuality, and how I choose to identify myself. Legion World has more than earned the benefit of the doubt if the wording of an opinion here initially rubs me the wrong way.
Perhaps the writers of 30 years ago presented a story in a way that was open to missinterpretation. Perhaps readers at the time took or expressed things in a manner less than politically correct. It's ok for people today to comment on these, or even to reiterate them. It is also ok for people to tell of their experiences, so long as they don't present them as evidence, but merely as examples of a viewpoint.
I read Candlelight's comment of "A lot of them that I've known have been fairly unstable in their orientation" as she's known people who identify themselves a lesbians who have also dated men. I would find that a little confusing too! I have had trysts with guys who called themselves straight. So I call them straight. Go fig.
We live in an ever-shrinking world that is trying to become a peaceful, cooperative family. This ain't gonna happen if we can't be comfortable with each other or have to walk on eggshells. We have quite a family going on here on Legion World and I love being a part of it.
But for the record: Ayla can date a guy if she wants to, but please, pleeeeease don't let it be Brin!

And just whut's wrong with Brin?

I mean, it's not like he's muh favorite character in tha legion er' nuthin!

I get that there's more than one way to interpret most relationships in an ongoing narrative, including this one.

Gotta' say, though: "Unstable" is a pretty poor choice, word-wise. Not thrilled with it myself.

DC site now have this listed as a Jan. 19 release date.

Is this true??

It is true. Funny, as Giffen's usually a fast artist. I wonder if Paul's script was late (or changed)?

Story maybe rewritten cuz of the leadership election results?


:planetarychancemachine:

Not very professional, is it. A deadline for a one off issue should be met, or an explanation given to the anticipated readers.

3 weeks late = it's gonna ROCK even more!!

When Shrinking Violet won the Legion Leader voting, she couldn't be killed off in the Annual, so the Giffen re-write includes a surprise appearance by Karate Kid just before the climax...