Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Giffen is doing LSH Annual!!!

While I like the synergy of Levitz/Giffen, I do not like his artwork since well before Omen and the Prophet.

The artwork he did on that Legends cover made me cringe.

BIG Giffen fan here. BIG. HUGE.

All criticism aside, if Levitz and Giffen can make lightning strike again (their first Legion Annual #1 was amazing) then I will shut up, never criticize Giffen again and wear a pink nellie hat...

I'm with you!
NO GIFFEN PLEASE!!!
Ya, he used to be good but that hasn't been the case, in my opinion of coarse, for a loooooong time! His work these days is hideous ... and that's being positive, seriously.
If Giffen draws the Legion Annual I may not buy it at all.

P.S. Just look at the variant cover for DC Universe Legacies #6 ... I rest my case.

Indeed not!

This isn't 80s Giffen. I think he's capable of doing layouts, but I don't want to see full pencils.

His writing doesn't do much for me either.

I am looking forward to this. Should be a blast!!

His writing I enjoy.

His art, not so much.

Er, I honestly think it's a decent cover, personally. I know it hasn't been a consensus favorite, but don't presume everyone agrees with you.

I'm looking forward to it, as well. Giffen should always be welcome at the Legion table, in my opinion. He's contributed so much to the team and its history. I'll always be interested in whatever he has to say, write, and draw about the Legion.

Never liked his art, but I'd have to say if he was to draw it, I'd be okay with him using his GDS style. I can't stand what he does these days artwise. His writing is fine by me, as long as he stops killing Karate Kid off every few years...

Not presuming anything there CT ... I know better than that.
It is my opinion alone. Period.
I hate the art, you like the art, that's fine.

No analysis of my intentions is necessary, thank you very much.

I loved the Giffen artwork around Legion Annual 1 and the GDS but it went downhill rapidly after that and by Magic Wars sucked. His artwork on 5YL was IMHO some of the worst art ever to be published in comics.

If Giffen comes back then it should be art consistent with the current Legion ie like he did in the early 80s.

Ted McKeever's final few issues of DOOM PATROL during Rachel Pollack's run have my vote as worst comicbook art ever published.

I agree with what you said about Giffen's art circa the GDS, it was amazing and so refreshing at the time. But by the time the whole Prophet saga was over I was sick of his new shadowy style already (I seriously remember thinking back then "maybe the guy broke his arm or something???") and by the time 5YL rolled around it was honestly too painful to watch for me.

To be fair though, once he hit his true stride in writing the Legion I learned to enjoy and appreciate his storytelling after that.

Hmm... while I'm not really a huge fan of Giffen's 5YL art style (it would've been okay for a story or two, but needed more variation), it's pretty far from being worst art in comics, imo. Heck, it's not even close to be being the worst art in the Legion. Some of those guys who were drawing the reboot when it started to go downhill were just terrible.

I think there is a misconception of what BAD art means. It's like saying Picasso's art is awful when he clearly dominated so well the technique that he is able to stretch and explore new ways to express art.
To say that Ted McKeever or Giffen do bad art is an insult. You may say it's not to your tastes - that's fine. But it is not BAD ART. Bad art is Kevin Sharpe, who is unable to draw a single face expression, who has serious problems with storytelling, who clearly doesn't dominate anatomy. He's that bad. Giffen or McKeever are able to do whatever they want.
And both were at the top of the game during those mentioned runs.

I've seen McKeever at the top of his game... and the last 4 or so issues of DOOM PATROL he completely phoned in and will always have my vote for worst published comicbook art.

Well said, Ric.

ok i wont talk about the change in style from GDS to OMen and i wont even talk about the Time trapper story art. i'll just leave it as HE LOVES TO KILL KARATE KID, and we could have had KK alive if he wasnt sadistic enough to just kill him again. (by the way he said he would love to kill the new one that was in legion worlds too).

*that's why i dont want him writing for the legion anymore. Not that i didn't love what he contributed to it overal.

Well, that's cool, but if a lawyer rests his case, he (or she) generally feels that he has presented the best evidence he could to prove his point. So when you said that, it implied (intended or not) that said piece of artwork was all the proof we would need that Giifen's art is "hideous". That's what I took issue with.

I know Giffen, and specifically his artwork, is controversial and devisive, but he nonetheless does have his fans. I personally haven't loved every single permutation of his style but am a big fan particularly of his early work with Levitz and his work on 5YL.

So please, Giffen haters, keep in mind that different fans have different tastes and that if they disagree with you, that doesn't necessarily mean that you are right and they are wrong.

Respect always.

Well, that's cool, but if a lawyer rests his case, he (or she) generally feels that he has presented the best evidence he could to prove his point. So when you said that, it implied (intended or not) that said piece of artwork was all the proof we would need that Giifen's art is "hideous". That's what I took issue with.

I know Giffen, and specifically his artwork, is controversial and devisive, but he nonetheless does have his fans. I personally haven't loved every single permutation of his style but am a big fan particularly of his early work with Levitz and his work on 5YL.

So please, Giffen haters, keep in mind that different fans have different tastes and that if they disagree with you, that doesn't necessarily mean that you are right and they are wrong.

Respect always.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">^That said, Giffen does need to get over his hate for one Mr. Val Armorr!

As far as Keith Giffen's art ever since the Omen and Prophet story, I'd much rather see Joe Staton or Steve Ditko return for a Legion story.
All three can tell a story with their art, but in my opinion their cartoony style is not really suited for the Legion.

As a co-plotter under Levitz, Giffen shined and had a great chemistry with Paul, and early on his art was pretty good to, still at his best he was no Cockrum, Sherman or Lightle at their best IMO.

I remember kind of being bummed out when he replaced Pat Broderick on the book, But I do doubt Broderick would have had the same passion or impact on the GDS up until the Omen story as Giffen did.

Another thing I remember is when Giffen did that big Legion poster, he said it burned him out and right after that it showed through in his art.

The last thing I remember is when Steve Lightle took over the book from Keith, I was like hell yeah, this is how the Legion should look, and Steve brought the artistic passion back to the book.

I'm actually looking forward to this and hope some of the magic that was the first Legion Annual can be recaptured in this one.

This is highly speculative, but it could be cool if the new Annual somehow mirrors the earlier one a bit and follows up on Danielle Foccart. We haven't seen her since the TMK/early Legionnaires era have we? And we haven't seen the version that's still in continuity in forever. (She never appeared during the Reboot era, did she?) All I can remember is that she was cured of her Computo infliction. Can anyone clarify her appearances and status post-Annual 1 thru the end of the Baxter era? Also, did she appear at all during Lightning Saga/Superman-LSH/L3W/Adventure backup stories so far that comprise the retroboot?

IMO Giffen is like a lot of other creators - hit or miss. His writing has been a lot more miss than hit for me lately though. And his art has been all miss. I think that if that variant Legacies cover had been submitted by anyone who wasn't already an industry name then they would have been shown the door and told to look for a new career. It's just that bad IMO.

I'm still looking forward to the Annual though and loving the fact that we're even getting one. I'm so glad that DC seems to have gone back to it's original format of creating Annuals and all those dumb 'themed' ones seem to be a thing of the past (even though there were a couple of good ones in there too).

Chief Taylor's idea of tying it in with Danielle Foccart is a great one and would be an opportunity to give Jacques some much-needed attention too.