Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Legion on Smallville

Is it just me, or did there seem to be an awful lot of closeups in this episode? There were times when I felt like I could almost count the nose hairs. It seemed like half people's faces were cut off.

Other than that, I liked the episode. It made me hope that we'll see the Legion return at some point, maybe with different members. I'd love to see the Fatal Five escape back in time, and have several Legionnaires travel back to stop them. Some of the Legion's powers would be easy (and relatively cheap) to replicate, like Shadow Lass, Triplicate Girl, Brainiac Five, people like that.

Unfortunately, I agree with others who've mentioned that TV budgets would tend to make most powers look not-so-great. Then again, movies with huge budgets for special effects tend to wallow in said effects at the expense of character and a decent plot. Too bad we can't split the difference.

TI actually enjoyed the Legion ep. a great deal. I too was bugged by the Chloe solution, but there was a genuine heistency in both Garth and Rokk to carry out the deed. I thought Clark's issuance of the Legion's prime directive worked very well.

We have to recall, I think, that the average Smallville viewer does not carry the continuity or emotional baggage that we do here on Legion World. Having the founders play the Star Boy role v. Kenz Nuhor was a great way to introduce the "no kill" concept and to have Clark directly inspire the Legion.

Recall also that, knowing Brainiac was defeated on the day of their visit, and not knowing Chloe, the Legion must have assumed she was killed. I read some of their willingness to kill Chloe, despite their hesitancy, to be a belief that it had to be done to keep the timeline intact.

Some random thoughts:
I thought all of the actors were great. The actress playing Imra clearly went with the Ice Queen portrayal. I'm sure if she appears again her inate hussyness will come out. I got a real sense of gravitas from Rokk (Garth called him Cos at one point). Garth was obviously played as comic relief, but I found the portrayal very much in keeping with the Live Wire version of the character.

I do find it hard to see this Imra hooking up with this Garth. She seems MUCH more suited to this Rokk. However, that, I think, just oozes possibilities for a "founder's triangle."

I loved all the litte touches, although I wonder if the average viewer got the line, "You're such a sub." I did miss the referene to a Levitz Museum, although I did catch Tharr (glad Johns remembered its a desert world, not a frozen one), plus "sprock" and "grife."

If I had my way, here's what'd happen next:

Clark faces off against Doomsday, gets clobbered, and, in the final ep. of the season, uses his flight ring to escape, with Chloe in tow, to the 31st century.

The entire next season (or two) is set in the Legion's time, with the Legionnaires appearing as series regulars as they teach Clark how to use his powers effectively. Sure, we lose Lois and Lana, but there would be plenty of love interests on the Legion for both Clark and Chloe.

Chloe is not remembered in the history books, of course, becasue she'll stay behing in the 31st century when Clark is finally ready to fight Doomsday, returning to the present seconds after he left, in costume for the first time.

I'm just watching it now, but a couple of early observations:
- the rings look *cool*! [I want one now]
- never been a huge Imra fan, and she has the wrong... er... 'bits', but damn, she's hot! Leather suits her (I always thought she was a little kinky)
- Rokk looks very good, liking the leather on him, and the little references to his traditional costumes. Nice touch. Very much the cool, calm leader, and fanboy Garth fits into that nicely.

My reaction was probably closer to Trom's than the rest of you, but I don't know that I blame Johns, I think I blame Smallville. I haven't watched this show regularly in years, and I've figured out why. It's just NOT Superman. When the show started, I thought Welling made a great Clark -- clearly on the way to being Superman physically, but having to go through adolescence to get there. My problem with the show is that the Welling Clark is whinier now by far than in season 1. And he's what, in his 40s now? And the way the characters interract and emote -- ughh! Do twentysomethings find this enjoyable and relatable? While the Legion's willingness to kill Chloe bothered me, it did so mainly because it belied their devotion to emulating Superman. If they were such great fans, how could they even consider it. Even if they DID consider it, it would have to be in the context of "Clark, we're asking you to violate everything we believe you will come to stand for." Therefore, they should have immediately realized, to protect the future history of Superman, THEY had to kill Chloe, not Clark. Johns basically get the characters to that point, but they should NEVER have been pressuring Clark to kill her in the first place. Then, when Welling's Clark really got around to taking his stand on the matter, he does it in his low-key whiny way that has zero resonance with the character of Superman and no inspirational value whatsoever. I wouldn't have been surprised if Cos didn't say afterward "Clark, you're such a whiny-ass titty baby, we're gonna go back to the future and kill, kill, kill! See ya, wouldn't wanna be ya."

Having said all that, the Legion WAS really fun and otherwise well-portrayed. I liked all the actors, though I agree I kept expecting Lightning Lad to say "that, Hermione, is wizard's chess." But he was cute, and the most entertaining of the bunch. Imra WAS the Iron Butt, wasn't she? Her confrontation with Lana, while pointless to the plot, came closest in my mind to examining the kill/don't kill issue in a good way. Of the 3 founders, Imra is the MOST likely to kill if she has to, because she has the best judgement, and is willing to bear the consequences. The use of powers was restrained, but good and even innovative, with the cleansing of Brainiac a real high point. It was only then, too, that Welling's Clark acted like Superman.

Again, it's hard to know how much to blame Johns, and how much to blame Smallville's producers, or Welling's acting.

A perennial problem with Smallville is that it seems like once an episode, like clockwork, Clark says 'That isn't going to happen.' or 'I'll stop it.' and then, he never does.

Sample dialogue from the end of last season;
Chloe - "Clark, they have a machine that will control you! If Lex gets his hand on it..."

Clark - "I won't allow that to happen! And by 'won't allow that' I mean, 'won't do a damn thing to stop it' other than show you my determined face and then go back to moping over Lana and ignoring huge impending crisis until someone gets hurt and it's all my fault again."

It's a soap opera. Clark is allowed to talk a good fight, but he's never allowed to actually be proactive and do anything decisive. Posture, pose, determined face. Get ass kicked. Get ass saved by Jor-El, Martian Manhunter, the discovery of a new super-power or some other random Deus Ex Machina.

Note what happens in this episode.

Clark - "We'll save her, by working together! And when I say 'we' I mean you. Lightning Lad, do something with lightning! Cosmic Boy, magno-whatzit the nanites! Saturn Girl, mind-mojo the framistat! I'll stand her with my Kryptonian thumb up my Kryptonian butt and pout really, really hard. Then I'll sign a baseball with heat vision! That'll fix everything!"

have to agree, i want to think that Brainy would be happier with the ball

if we go by real continuity, brainiac 5 should be in the legion....every version brainy had made the rings...they all had flight rings...so brainy should be a member. of the legion.

sides we all know that that ball is going to end up as Pulsar Stargrave

Hmmm... I thought there was one take where Invisible Kid I was the inventor of the flight ring. [scratches head]

Yeah but it was made from one of Brainy's cast off experiments. In that boot Lyle and Querl were always debating theoretical vs. practical and that one was a "Win" for IK.

Ah. Thanks.

[drift] I can accept that, but Mullet-Brainy was/is a little tough on me.

I'm probably also the only person on the planet willing to admit that I still like Lyle's first look the most. I know it's cheesy, but I just can't help myself. [/drift]

i like lyle's second costume best but...*hugs her legion toys on desk.*i have the original is mt second..

Do they call the Legionnaires by their codenames or their real names in Smallville?

Rokk addressed Garth as Lightning Lad once and Garth addressed Rokk as Cos once. Imra was called "Im" once, which is new to me.

jimg,

They did a good job of mixing them in. As they first appear, they use their real names, but out in "public" later (there's nobody there), Rokk calls Garth "Lightning Lad" in a disapproving way, sort of like when your mom uses your full name when she discovers you've done something you ought not to have. It was cute. It was fun to hear "Imra" and even "Im" used in a totally un-selfconscious way.

My 2 cents.

Overall I liked the episode very much. It was a long time coming, and I had to wait till after work to watch a recorded version, but I liked it.

First of all, I have the same objection many of you have. The Legion would not kill. Perhaps in the future of this incarnation, Superman ends up killing Doomsday to save someone he loves, and they based it all on this. I don't know what Johns' thinking was, but to the majority of fans, it was just wrong. I also thought Clark was just a little too quick in accepting the Legionnaires, but I chalked it up to the fact that he wants super-powered pals, and just wants to belong.

It didn't take long to figure out this was the Action Comics Legion, based on the comments of xenophobia. I did like the way I wondered "are they going to mention Earth Man?" They didn't of course, but it made me want to see more.

It was obvious that Rokk was the leader, and that he was clearly older than the other two. I'd put him at about 18-19, calm and in charge. Imra was about 17 was a calming influence, and incidentally, smoking hot. Garth was about 15-16 and impetuous. They were clearly friends and had been together lon enough to refer to each other as "Im" and "Cos."

I wanted to see more of the Persuader too. Granted he's never been one for great dialogue, but he was dispatched just a little too quickly. Also, if he used the flight ring to travel through time, and Rokk took it away from him, how did he get sent back? Was there a ripcord of some sort?

I, too, liked the 30th-31st century lingo, and the references we would get. Tharr, grife, sprock, Levitz Museum (Why not Superman Museum?).

I liked the way Rokk called Garth "Lightning Lad" once, when he was trying to talk to him as a leader to a subordinate. Garth also called him "Cos" once, but alas, no "Saturn Girl" references.

Rather than think - I saw it more as Clark being a leader, and reminiscent of Adv. 247, he figured out a way to use each of their powers in a new way. Just my take.

Overall, I was just very happy to actually see a live action Legion. It has been TOOOOO long coming. I can see more potential for their return than the contrived Justice League.

I'm not making excuses and saying "It's all good," I'm saying, for the first live action Legion, Not Bad.

No you're not, if you are referring to THE original. My first exposure to IK was the "cloning" story in S/LSH with IK and Ferro Lad. I thought he was a cool character and was one of the reasons I started getting back issues.

Has anyone mentioned that Garth said he "joined" the Legion and not "founded" the Legion?

The Legion willing to kill was unacceptable to me. You guys are way too forgiving. Even Quis came up with a more creative angsty way of providing tension. (I know it was so Clark would be the one to provide Legion Code No. 1 and all that, but they could have been more creative without violating the characters.)

I'd have preferred this to be a stand alone episode and just been a fun initiation adventure.

Great to see a live-action Legion! Too bad there has to be so many exceptions.

This also would have been far greater if this was season one. They could have made a Legion visit an annual event. Upping the ante each time. And if Star Trek, Farscape, etc. can afford to future it up on TV, then so could the WB/CW.

I didn't really care for the Persuader being a 'supremest' but it isn't the first time that the idea of xenophobic groups have been shown in the 31st century.
Triad was almost killed by members of the White Triangle, Trom was destroyed by a Daxamite faction and Andromeda, being an underground member of WT finally switched sides, helped defeat them and then joined a holy order in penence.

I was protesting the willingness to kill Chloe, too, but NOT killing becoming part of the Legion code because of what Clark taught them silenced me.
The idea of not killing any old time you want has been under attack in comics for at least the last 20 years.
The recent crossover, DREAMWARS, hi-lights that conflict.
And in our world, killing is the simple answer to a lot of people's problems.
I'm glad the story involving the Legion made a stand against the constant 'bloodworks' around us.

Tom Welling is 29.
The character he plays is now in his early twenties, I believe.
Lana and Chloe graduated from college, didn't they?
I remember Brianiac being introduced during those years.

Anyway, I like Welling and I've enjoyed this last couple of seasons of Smallville, especially.

The Legion was so much fun to watch.
I got the feeling from the characters that the Legion in this universe isn't in it's mostly teenage era,but not yet in Johns era,either.

Rokk and Imra seemed in their very late teens or early twenties.
Garth was younger, of course, but that was fine with me.
He reminded me a little of Gates when he was in our time period, owwwing and ahhhing over stuff, wanting to collect it.

I thought there were to many close-ups, as well, lol!
And to much make-up!
It takes a lot to make Lana's features look generic but they managed it!

I love Chloe.
She was fantastic and I'm so glad she has her 'Kal' memories back!

Someone thought that she should go to the future.
But if she did that what would happen to Jimmy?
I kind of like that she's married to him.

I SO want to see the Legion in Smallville again.
Shadow Lass would be wonderful!

In Sanctuary, all of the sets are computer generated. They say it's cheaper than regular filming.

Last comment.
Did anyone else love the part where Garth asked Clark why they were having the conversion on the ground rather than in the air?
Clark said he couldn't fly.
Garth's and Rokk's reactions were so funny and so spot on!
Loved it.
Sounds like something that would work very well for a Legion series.

I

just watched it!!! so awesome.

yeah garth said joined not formed or founded.

i couldn't get over how blood thirsty the founders were either. maybe they are one of the dark future legions. and then..it didn't seem that hard for them to "exorcise" brainiac haha. rokk didn't even sweat.

i did love the fight scenes and imra especially. she was cool and not catty. and i never realized how catty it could be to be a telepath before watching this episode. she was all business but still warm. i loved how garth and imra spoke a bit slowly, made them seem more formal and different. i couldn't get over cosmic boy's hair...too long for him.

oh and imra can trash talk...."your sadism is legendary...and so is your defeat" yeahhh beyotch.

it's kinda funny how the founders were for continuity!!! haha "we've never heard of chloe"

i'm also sick of the xenophobia plot...and to make it a part of television history is gross.
can we get a generalized legion or amalgam not include a sentence that is sooo determinative of which type of legion this is!

i was on the edge of my seat waiting for them to say "fatal five" during the persuader scene. and i thought that clark would dodge the axe but...he dosn't know it can hurt him...and then i'm thinking it's gonna cut him in half!! very tense.

i liked their slant on garth, socially awkward and impetuous rather than hot headed. but i guess they made him out to be a newbie in this episode.

great action episode...

oh and btw, i've never ever watched smallville before. i think i might start watching it, so many shirtless boys too.

one more thing, isn't it kinda depressing to have the legion meet kal el because of an assassination attempt and they try to sacrifice his best friend.

must be a dark and random future.


i think the legion will be back on smallville(somebody has to teach him to fly)...and hopefully a bit more well...hopeful.

i'm really not weirded out that the legion would be kill-friendly at first! i mean... they're practically COPS. and if a cop had to kill someone, you wouldn't think it was weird! sad but not weird, you know? i guess i'm cold hearted but... chloe sullivan's life vs everyone on the planet dying?!! come on, guys! even chloe, i'm sure, would have sacrificed herself!

personally, i see the "we don't kill" thing in general as a writing necessity, one of the mainstays in comics is that you need some reason why superman doesn't just snap lex luthor's neck or why no one in gotham will ever get the death penalty when obviously in for reals land, they would. it's because they want the bad guys to come back and fight again, guys.

...and it was very clear that when it came down to it, none of them were enjoying the task! i thought the part where they actually had to DO the deed was very powerful and well done! notice that they were going to use a frigging KNIFE to make it more visceral. (though secretly i was going 'guys, there are less horrible ways...). did i miss a reason for stab-specific death?

GOD the look on cos' face!! holy CRAP, that guy made me think cos was going to cry a little, did anyone see those slightly watery eyes?!! and poor, adorable, nerd-garth ;____;!! oh my god.

imra apparently raided the bathroom for eyeshadow while the boys put the barn back together.

man... i would NOT mind a million more episodes with these guys. that is the most wide open door to more episodes i've EVER seen!!

"HERE'S THIS RING. COME VISIT ANYTIME."

"ANYTIME YOU WANT, AT ANY MOMENT."

"YOU COULD MEET ALL THE OTHER LEGIONNAIRES."

"LIKE, IDK, BRAINIAC 5?!!"

-----

man. i screamed happily the whole frigging episode. tiny throw away lines that made me FREAK OUT but that wouldn't seem out of place ("it's for my sister").

what, you were hoping they would just haze him the whole epsiode? haha i hope that happens next time...

vv, you crack me up!

I liked seeing a live action Legion very much, and I thought the story was very good.

I figured the Legion was willing to kill because history told them that that's what was needed. I liked that they couldn't actually do it and I liked that Supes was the boy scout.

I've never watched Smallville before and I probably won't again. Not because it was bad, but because I watch enough other shows.

I liked Cos' portrayal very much. No complaints.

Imra seemed to speak like she had too many teeth in her mouth or something. It was wierd. Still, she was very cute.

I'm not sure I like a goofy, silly Garth. It takes some getting used to. I almost wish it was Cham or someone else in that role. Or that it was the slick, cool Garth.

Overall, I was pleased. I recorded it. I'll watch it again sometime.

AFOB:

Quote

...No you're not, if you are referring to THE original. My first exposure to IK was the "cloning" story in S/LSH with IK and Ferro Lad. I thought he was a cool character and was one of the reasons I started getting back issues.

Yeah, the one that somebody at Major Spoilers called "Eddie Bauer Meets Elvis" or words to that effect.


Sketch Lad:

Quote

...I'm not sure I like a goofy, silly Garth. It takes some getting used to. I almost wish it was Cham or someone else in that role. Or that it was the slick, cool Garth.

Cham's probably switched agencies since the cartoons. I mean, first getting voiced by some Fox soap guy on his smoke break, then getting turned into Beast Boy without the fangs. You can hardly blame him.

I enjoyed the episode quite a bit and have no significant complaint about it--beyond the simple fact that I want MORE!!!!!

The more I think about the 'kill solution' the Legionnaires thought was best, the more I'm okay with the reasoning behind it. I mean, history told them that Brainiac absolutely HAD to be "destroyed" on that day or there would be no future left for them to return to.

So they meet Clark and he's nothing like what they expected: he can't fly, there's no costume...in short, he's not fully-formed on a day that they feel is crucial in their history. So with everything riding on what will happen that day, the Legion feel that if they don't destroy Brainiac by killing Chloe, everything they know will end. Even so, they are shown reluctant to carry through and are clearly not used to using lethal force. Those moments sold it for me.

It's kinda like whether or not, if given the opportunity, you would kill Hitler's mom while he's in utero, except on a much larger scale. Even Chloe at the end tells Clark that she would expect him to kill her if the stakes were this high again and no other option presented itself.

So I felt the scenario was very nicely done, and I especially like how Clark was able to inspire them so profoundly in a way that even his legend wasn't able to. Clark didn't measure up to their impossibly high expectations. But at the same time, he actually ended up exceeding them!

I was quite moved by that take. Even though it's not "classic Silver Age" Legion meets Superboy, it was a nice modern take and ultimately, I felt, true to both the Superman and Legion mythos.

Some more notes.....

Of the three, I felt Rokk rang the most true of the three. Yes, the hair was not the clean-cut look we're used to for Cos, but the attitude, the leadership and the maturity were all absolutely spot-on. This was most definitely Rokk Krinn, my friends, and the actor who played him did a great job.

I also enjoyed Imra and Garth quite a bit. Neither really came off as authentically for me as Rokk, but I enjoyed them nonetheless. Imra didn't really contradict the comics version exactly, but there was something off I couldn't put my finger on. Garth's personality was a little more of a classic Polar Boy/threeboot Tinya as far as the starstruck aspect goes. I still enjoyed the take regardless and can see this Garth eventually becoming more like the one(s) we all know and love.

I haven't watched Smallville regularly in a long time. I was onboard the first three seasons (in fact the second half of season one thru the first half of season three I felt were absolutely outstanding) but felt it was going off the rails so badly at the end of season three that I've only rarely caught a stray episode ever since. I may just make a point to catch a few more episodes now.

I feel that if the show is brought back for another season, we will almost certainly get another Legion appearance. So...here's to one more season!!!