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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,104
Leader
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Leader
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,104 |
Never mind Levitz's version; read the version from his first appearances! A super-acrobat worried deep down that he might be a robot, that's what I want Timber Wolf to be. Forget this animalistic stuff.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 25,675
space mutineer & purveyor of quality sammitches
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space mutineer & purveyor of quality sammitches
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 25,675 |
[QB]AFOB wrote: ...4. Chameleon's costume. What do those symbols mean? One might mean change, the other two?... [puts on art-geek hat] Multiple shapes = Shapeshifting. That's actually my favorite of all Cham's costumes. Well, tied with the cartoon one. What can I say ? Art-farts like black.
Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on DeviantArt! Drop by and tell me that I sent you. *updated often!*
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,065
Long live the Legion!
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Long live the Legion!
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,065 |
Originally posted by Doctor One:
-Phantom Girl's new origin really didn't make any sense at all. Nobody could ever function like that, half here and half there (except for Dream Girl, that is). The biggest problem with that is that Phantom Girl was supposed to 'walk through walls' by going to Bgtzl, where there is conveninently not a wall there. What if, on Bgtzl, there *IS* a wall there? (or a person, or a car, or a river, or a mountain, or a tree?) Well, she's screwed. So, apparently, on Bgtzl, which is depicted as co-terminous with Earth (since she phases from her bedroom at home to the Legion rec-room, during the introductory bit where Val is crushing on her), there isn't a single building in the same place as any building on Earth, other than her house co-existing with Legion HQ, which would prevent her from walking through quite a few walls in Legion HQ, since *her house is in the way!* Gah. Keep the four-dimensional space explanation. That works. This new definition of her powers fails.
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,906
Legionnaire!
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Legionnaire!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,906 |
What worked: the characterizations of Light Lass, Colossal Boy and Phantom Girl. I've never liked the first two more than I have in this boot, while I hadn't *really* liked Tinya since pre-Levitz (sorry, he wasn't perfect).
Settings like Triton's snow resort, the hub of the monitoring network, the pirate's planet were all interesting and worth revisiting.
Big Gay Al.
Theena.
Tenzil.
What didn't: I suppose this could be construed as a subtle gambit by Lemnos, but having none of the Legionnaires seem to know diddly about each other after a supposed two years existence as a team really sucked.
I think it was supposed to make things reader friendly, but all it really accomplished was making the team have a void in the place it should've had a big ol' heart.
Namelessness- three hordes of interesting *looking* villains who we weren't made to know at all, even to the point of cursory names further kept the reader at a distance.
Sensorization- by that I mean change for change's sake. Was anything really added to the story by making Chlorophyll Kid into Plant Lad? Or by the planetary characterizations of Caargg, Imsk and Daxam?
When there's a good story to tell, then fine- but if it's only so a group shot of Legion A looks different than Legion B, forget it.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 444
Active
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Active
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 444 |
there IS a vaguely referenced origin story buried in this boot, that we only get with very tiny inferences here and there, i am slowly compiling a recreated history of this legion based wholly on anal retentiveness. when i'm done i'll post it here for you guys to check.
....and then i'll mail it to mark waid in an unmarked envelope....and he will fear me.
edit: mystery lad: arrrgh, what i meant to mention, was that from what i've been able to gather is that there are different waves of legionnaires, and that there are different... well i don't wnat to call them cliques.... but definitely certain characters are "friends" and closer to one another than others.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 749
Active
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Active
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 749 |
Originally posted by stephbarton:
A couple issues off the top of my head.
1) I agree the "Eat it Grandpa" was the wrong message. I understand that he was trying to equate the legion with a movement, but it would have been nice if that movement was a POSITVIE movement (such as, you know, inspiring people t be HEROIC). Eat it Grandpa doesn't do this.
2) Not explaing WHY. To me Waid never explains a) where the Legion comes from b) why it calls itself the Legion of "Super-heroes" and c) what it's actual motivatios are. Without knowing this, to me, it was hard to care. You radically change the nature of the Legion, but you never explain what the NEW Legion is
3) Too much in-fighting and too soon. I was rereading some of my early threeboot, because I remember enjoying those issues, but I realized one of the things that turned me off. The Legion turned against itself TOO soon. The Legion, it's purpose, it's characters are never firmly established before they start tearing themselves apart. If Waid really really wanted to do a team "in-fighting" arc they needed to do it later in the series. Have the first arc (the war) be six issues, show us who the characters are and why we care, and then later show the team dealing with other stress.
4) unlikable characters and stupid changes. Too many times I feel like the writer is pointing and saying "aren't I cool, this isn't the Legion like you knew it." The characters (and partly because they fight amongst themselves so much) you rarely sympathize with them fully, they don't sing to you as much as they used to.
Then you have Micro-Lad, really, what was the point? What did his being from a race of giants ever bring to the story? You change a character that really serves a nice "All-American Boy" role (at least that's the vibe I always got from Gim) to "character who is just there to look large". And Invisible Kid, why do characters have to match their powers? Doesn't that sound kinda simple/stupid.
5) Poor pacing. Honestly, some issues were great, early on, but the energy was really gone by the time the war ended and I felt this book never recovered. Too much time to do ANYTHING. Even when Supergirl was introduced, he spent too much time on her "this is a dream" comment and never RESOLVED it. That should have been a three issue arc where the Legion proves to Supergirl that it isn't a dream or show where she comes from. The fact that he let yet ANOTHER subplot run on for too long.
there's more, like how he never fully followed up on things, left subplots dangling, didn't answer questions, never fully explored the universe (again, if you are going to change it that MUCH you need to explore it well) but I'll just start with that group. This perfectly sums up my opinion about the Threeboot under Waid. the only thing I have to add: The most ridiculous Supervillain of all time. Praetor Lemnos, the villain with the ability to be forgotten. I still have to laugh about the irony concerning this absolutely forgettable character...
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,394
Space Fatigue Survivor
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Space Fatigue Survivor
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,394 |
Originally posted by Chemical King:
The most ridiculous Supervillain of all time. Praetor Lemnos, the villain with the ability to be forgotten.
I still have to laugh about the irony concerning this absolutely forgettable character... Too true.
Celebrating 10+ years of Legion Worldness
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 25,675
space mutineer & purveyor of quality sammitches
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space mutineer & purveyor of quality sammitches
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 25,675 |
Personally, I liked what I saw of Lemnos. The implication was that in a society where privacy was virtually impossible, you'd have a great deal of power if that era's hyper-surveillance couldn't find a way to track and record you.
Implications there for our own time, with its emphasis on sacrificing privacy for safety, or the illusion of safety at least...
Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on DeviantArt! Drop by and tell me that I sent you. *updated often!*
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
Bold Flavors
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Bold Flavors
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634 |
Ultimately, Waid's writing showed flashes of brillance, but didn't get me to like or invest any sort of bond to any of the Legionnaires.
And Shooter's run is probably what I consider one of the worst of his long career. Everyting from the actual plots, the pacing, the corny dialogue and the inability to make anything seem not only 'epic' or 'grand' in regards to his entire run but let alone even interesting on a one issue basis.
But man, the art was great almost all the way through. That much almost no one can argue.
At the end of the day, I don't think any of the Legionnaires of the threeboot are the best of each version. I know some people like Invisible Kid and Phantom Girl, but I don't think IB compares to the reboot IB, and threeboot Tinya was fun, but she isn't anywhere near as enjoyable as the first two versions.
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