Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes LEGION #14 Preview

The best of the issue : Lydda, Ayla and Tasmia.
An I hope with all the changes about The Fatal Five.... Sarya Returns!

Okay, thanks for the info, especially with Lu--I thought that meant that there was literally a Legion member named Lu that I wasn't finding. I still have trouble remembering the Legion's real names (which made my reading of Giffen's 5YL stuff a real pain in the arse...).

Reading the thread I realize that I remember exactly nothing from that "Secret Origin."

If the real names were the only reading problem you had with 5YL you did pretty well!!!!

Since when do Arizonans say "arse"? I thought all Americans said "ass".

Wasn't sure if ass was okay under the "no swearing" rule.

But yeah, I honestly loved the hell out of 5YL--it was interesting, in that considering how there was all these attempts around that time of doing these out-of-continuity dark and gritty books with experimental storytelling, like DKR and Watchmen, to see that Giffen was actually doing this as well, and in an actual cannon story--and unlike others who'd come after him, doing it WELL.

But yeah, the names thing threw me off at times. I was praying for what we have now where we'd get the little box that tells the character's superhero name, real name, powers and all that.

I have just caught up on a few months worth of Legion...read #0, 13 and 14, and while I don't really care for Kolins' art generally, I found bits of it to be more enjoyable than usual.

As far as the writing goes, these are the first Legion issues I have read in AGES where I came away with an unblemished enjoyment of the book...usually there's something that really stands out where I think Levitz could have done a lot better, but I didn't feel that at all here! I am starting to get excited with all the Fatal Five lead-in stuff too, though I still think it's kind of disappointing that their history with the Legion has been thrown out the window....I also agree that Tinya not liking to be touched seems an odd choice given her personality, but it's not something that really detracted for me, I just found it a weird writing choice.

And Lydda on a real mission = WIN!

I haven't read the issue yet, BUT I'm guessing the schtick about PG not liking to be touched is another installment in the old "the character's power is what defines him/her" m.o. His/her raison d'etre, if you will. i.e., She's a phantom, so she's untouchable. Previously, we've seen this with Shady referring to darkness and shadows all the time, Dawnstar using the word path every time she opens her mouth, Dreamer being turned into a real dream/figment of Brainy's imagination, Timber Wolf becoming a werewolf, Apparition becoming an actual ghost, Alchemist becoming like Metamorpho, etc. etc.

It all boils down to one-note characterization, imho. Similar to making everyone on Winath twins and the whole world being agricultural, or making everyone on Tharr short, or all of Talok desert. Painting a whole planet with one brush or defining a character based on the nature of their power is just too easy imho.

A similar/tangental example is having Invisible Kid step down as leader because his power wasn't assertive enough to lead the Legion a while back, as if it's the nature of a person's physical power that makes him/her a good leader, as opposed to his/her personality, intelligence, character, or decision-making skills.

If so, that would be disappointing.

I don't like the idea that air characters have to be 'flighty' or 'distant' while fire characters have to be 'hotheads' and characters with great strength have to be physical and violent. (Although that sort of thing can be a great shorthand for a one-off team, like the Masters of Disaster or Terror Firma!)

Even Superman, over the last decade or so, has been increasingly characterized by the nature of his powers, being portrayed as more and more aggressive and confrontational and, IMO, dickish, because it's somehow incomprehensible to the new generation of writers that someone with all that physical power would be such a temperate and restrained boy scout and not more of an arrogant super-bully who likes to show off.

(Although, really, that seems to be Johns go-to writing trick for all superheroes. The entire Justice League, under his pen, are a bunch of rampant unrestrained super-egos, showing off and generally making super-asses of themselves. They spent more pages of their first twelve issues fighting against, or showing off for, or undercutting, each other, than fighting bad-guys.)

My assumption when I read the issue was that this interaction was an allusion to their history together - PG being offended by Dirk's womanizing. She did dump her drink on his head after he told her how he spent his weekend.

I don't remember the specifics, but Dream Girl relatively recently told someone to 'Don't touch the hair! Ever!'

Was that also Dirk?

'Cause, if so, Dirk getting touchy-feely and smacked down by Tinya, Dragonwing *and* Dreamy seems a little more than a coincidence.

The reason Tinya didn't like being touched is because it was DIrk doing it. Tinya thinks Dirk is a creepy lecherous pervert. This was established in Levitz's second run -- I specifically remember one scene where Dirk tells Tinya an off-color story and Tinya dumps her drink on his head. I forget what issue this was in, but I think it was just after the Great Darkness Saga.

Loved this entire issue with the exception of its concluding lines, which I thought landed with an uncomfortable thud. A little bit of humor that was actually amusing was all that was missing.

I find it sort of intriguing that Chemical Kid's so much more likeable with Jan than with anyone else. I wonder if he feels a sort of father/son bond with the Trommite? What we saw of his father on Phlon made me think they weren't exactly close, though I could well be wrong about that.

I hope Night Girl sticks around. I wouldn't mind if Rokk's recovery was a longish one, especially if it brought Garth and/or Imra back for a bit. I know they're in the way of being panel hogs, but the book just feels stronger and more 'Legiony' when the founders are around. I think Levitz needs to jettison his perpetual cycle of including them/writing them off/bringing them back/writing them off.

The Fatal Five as enemies the LSH has never faced? Can't wrap my head around it. I guess the team could've battled them individually. Validus and Emerald Empress, especially.

If DC's axing those appearances as well, then I feel bring back Lyle Norg is something that could happen. Any substitution rendering his murder someone other than Validus makes that death one that can be revisited with impunity. Sensor Girl's origin becomes nebulous, as well.

And what about Ferro Lad? One of the central occurences that totally shaped the LSH into the LEGION will HAVE to be explained. Sun-Eater story without Fatal Five?

I NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT THAT. I, personally, would jump for joy and run around like a small child at Christmas if they found a decent way to bring back Lyle. He was always a favorite of mine in the Reboot (and I heard he wasn't terribly annoying in 3boot either) and I WOULD JUST LOVE THAT.

Notice I inserted the word "decent". XD

Perhaps you're right, Sir Tim. But what does it say about a story when the series' biggest fans (Legion World, baby!) can't easily catch the meaning? Seems like most of us are just scratching our heads over it.

If the Legion's never even met the FF, then we certainly can't assume that a little thing like PG dumping her drink on Dirk is still canon. I got the impression that the no-touch thing was a personal rule of PG's and not aimed specifically to ward off Dirk's advances.

One of the many untold tales of the Legion: Dirk got smashed one night and put the moves on Tinya or, to put a more romantic sheen on it, confessed to her his true undying devotion. He's madly in love with her and just can't resist some physical contact from time to time - and she knows she has to back him off, clearly and firmly. A tragic story of unrequited love, which Dirk conceals by womanizing.

Kidding aside, if the Legion's never met the Fatal Five, there's either something wrong with the timestream or a whole lot of history to be revised. Maybe it's something Saturn Queen did, however: erased memories of the FF for some reason.

If it all brought back Lyle Norg, I'd be happy too.

I think I would be happy if the F5's history being dissolved ended up being some crazy long term plan of Tharok's coming into play....the more I think about it the more I think it's unfortunate and kind of pointless if the Legion have never faced one of their iconic enemies for the sake of one new story

Well, we already know that the Time Trapper has been seriously messing with things, and that this time around he's much more directly responsible for the Legion's origin than ever before, per the Secret Origins series.

Honestly, I wouldn't. I guess Jacques doesn't have many fans out there, but I'm one of them. So I want him to stay where he is, but with some better-written powers. Seems inevitable that if Lyle returned, they'd have to shunt Jacques out of the way.

Jacques suffers from the same affliction Lyle occasionally suffered from, the uncanny knack to forget to go invisible during fights, and, when he *did* remember to go invisible, boasting and giving away his position.

Invisibility, by itself, is not a terrible power to have, it's just that nobody seems to use it very intelligently. If the person kept it active and didn't shoot their mouth off, an invisible character could make one heck of a 'spoiler,' dancing around the combat zone and sabotaging bad-guys, or supporting good guy actions. (Although it would be helpful if the team was linked by telepathy or something, so that Sun Boy or Lightning Lad didn't accidently fry Invisible Dude with a stray energy blast...)

If his invisibility could apply to other forms of radiant energy, he could not merely be invulnerable to laser weapons (which would pass right through him like visible light), but perhaps even able to walk through force fields, which could be handy.

OTOH, I preferred Lyle as well. A young scientist who developed his own super-powers? That's something the Legion could use more of! Plus Jacques universal translator mysteriously failing to translate only the most common French words is annoying.

"The nanoarchitectonics of this fullerene icosahedron is... tres fantastique!"

"Sorry Jacques, your translator crapped out at the end there. What's 'tres' mean again?"

I love the idea of Jacques being immune to to all electromagnetic radiation.

He definitely suffers from the tendency to punch the bad guy and then become visible.

I like Lyle and Jacques both, but certainly something needs to be done to make them more useful, whichever one we go with. I suppose Lyle, being a genius, would be more useful to the team than Jacques whose only other attribute is his outrageous French accent.

It's Jacques' French accent and expressions which make him tiresome as far as I'm concerned. He lost all that in the 5YL series, got some leadership ability and was all the better for it.

If Lyle were to return, Jacques could undergo a power change through some event and both could stay in the Legion. Or Lyle could come back without his invisibility power and be a Rond Vidar type of friendly resident genius.

After rereading the story, a few little things I liked:

- the term "uniques" to describe certain super-powered sentients

- Bainy's steam-punky magnetic field detector - or maybe he took the parts out of the garbage bin

- the three Braalian raiders who each speak part of a sentence. Silly villains.

- sparkly Jan

- Legionnaires using each other's first names

The accent thing can be played a little too hard, but considering how hardcore the French are at keeping their language pure, if any language is going to survive as is into the 31st Century, it's probably that.

Probably a better way of showing it off is having him speak more formally (which tends to happen if you're speaking a second language), and then have him swear or mutter to himself in French.

Jacques could speak totally French all the time! That way, we readers would have to scramble to a French Dictionary to decode anything he has to say (sort of like the Interlac signage, but more challenging).

Comics that are entertaining AND educational is what I'm talking about...