Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes The original story from Jim Shooter's aborted LSH run

Hey, guys. Long time no see.

I actually came here to see how the rage would be on Jim Shooter's unpublished real plot story for his DC-butchered threeboot and apparently, nobody saw it in his website.

It's a three-part series, with the plot for the original 16-issue run.

Here are the links to each part:
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

I've already read them and SPOILERS follow.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">As one can see, Jim had an extremely solid idea what he wanted from the book. And, even though DC tried its best to make his run thinner than it was, he was actually able to keep the major plot almost to the end, when DC botched everything. One of the best things about reading the original version is how tense and dramatic it all was. It was probably going to be the best run since Giffen's v4 in terms of sophistication and sci-fi-ish elements.
My favorite idea was the return of Cos with the Legion of 41st Century - that would be a major shake-up! I also enjoyed immensely the development of the Alien Invasion with the recreation of various characters, such as Stealth and Super-Lad. It's almost an offense to see we were, instead, fed with that crap from issue 50 and the innocuous and dull Legion of Three Worlds (which was, as most Geoff Johns works from recent years, a work-in-progress that left writers later scrambling for something to hang on to). </span></span>

I wish we could have something like this from Giffen and Levitz original runs, as well as Mark Waid & Barry Kitson's original idea - already mentioned before but never entirely published.

Thanks so much for sharing this, Ricardo. It's a fascinating story that would have created some controversy for sure. I imagine I would have loved the final version. I was upset before about not being able to see the end of Shooter's story. More so now.

It's also great to have more insight into the creative breakdown between Shooter and Manapul. Wow. What an unfortunate misunderstanding/miscommunication.

Interesting read.

I agree with some of what he did, and disagree with other stuff. (I thought Giselle was *way* cooler as an alien looking person, and didn't like her changing to look more human.)

It's kinda funny how he goes into some really well-thought-out sciency-stuff in some points, and then sort of handwaves other stuff. "IK does something McGuyver-ish, again."

I have a love-hate relationship with these behind-the-scenes / making-of-the-show sorts of reveals, as they dish all sorts of neat stuff that didn't see the page / got left on the cutting room floor, but there's also a 'don't really want to know how the sausage is made' element where I read the cast-n-crew's recollections of events and am less impressed with either the creatives, their ideas, or the execution of those ideas.

I think it is fair to point out that this was a quite descriptive 16 issue story with no breakdowns, so I guess it meant the meat (the sci-fi stuff) which was vital to the plot was well-put out from the beginning and some non-essential parts could be dealt with later.

I also think Giselle worked just fine as an alien, but I can also see his point in making her (to the eyes of the average reader) more relatable as a "beautiful" specimen. Not only that, but also belieavable to IK, who was a humanoid after all. But for me, it would have worked just the same.

The story would have been interesting either way. However, they would have been very different stories depending upon whether Giselle was humanoid or alien. The humanoid approach would have worked better for me.

I would also have enjoyed the Super Lad storyline. It's ironic that it was replaced by the current reality in order to appease readers and creators who wanted the series to be more strongly tied to the Superman mythos, and who saw the move as returning the Legion to its roots. A teenaged team with a teenaged Kryptonian is much closer to the roots of the Legion then the current approach from my perspective.

I'm also totally intrigued with the idea of Princess Projectra controlling Saturn Girl in that manner. It would have been a dramatic reveal in comic book form.

I haven't even finished reading this yet, but I'm amazed. There is so much here that wasn't clearly communicated in the published comics (for example, that Jeckie was pissed at Garth because Garth publicly told off Brin). Shooter is such a brilliant writer.

Having finished reading it, I think this is the best Legion story that never was. The fact that it was never completed is an embarrassment to DC. Maybe someday when DC is run by different people, Shooter and Manapul can somehow be encouraged to complete it.

I do wish it'd seen print- especially everything with Projectra. Maybe someday she can 'jump' dimensions/realities/timelines to plague the current LSH or maybe the New Wanderers...

I can't say I'm sorry that the developments with Invisible Kid didn't become 'canon', however. To me, it just doesn't fit the character. Now, if Lyle's little 'adjustment' affected a handful of Legion characters, it'd be a different thing altogether. Imagine Brainy coping with cramps...

Still not sold on Gazelle at all. Sizzle, though, seems even cooler. I wish Levitz or someone would create a current-world version of the character.

Shooter's little throwaway, 'E-Lad should be the one to die' didn't exactly endear Shooter's ideas to me. Though I do agree that the restrictions to his power made him a difficult character to use. Or did he mean Jan's power in any reality? I wonder if Johns decided to kill Element Lad Prime after reading this outline? I felt somewhat unconnected to that version of Element Lad, so his death in LO3W wasn't as painful to read as it might have been. Sun Boy Prime's death hit me harder, to tell the truth.

Disappointing (to put it mildly) if so.

I hope when Levitz's reign nears an end that the powers that will be don't inflict such a cap to his stint as writer. The Legion's had more than its share of editorially-ruined conclusions with DNA's and Shooter's series-ending stinkers.

Wow! That's the master at work! Fascinating read and what an arc it would have made. It may be my own biases but I get the feeling Shooter wasn't too happy with the artist(s). Few things are more subjective and this is only my opinion but I believe the art undermined the whole enterprise for Shooter. In particular I note one commentator on the blog had some original art which I'm pretty sure came from Sanford Greene's fill in. All I can say about that is IT WAS HIDEOUS! I still flip through the trade from time to time and when I reach that chapter I train my eyes on the speech bubbles and go as fast as I can. Deformed, grotesque caricatures- awful. If only Kitson had been there, or even Lopresti whose fill- in was so refreshing.
Story wise I can't see the point of IK's transition and I would hate to see the end of Element Lad (and for such a lazy reason) but GO SIZZLE!! I would love to see her in the new book. Great power and real character potential. Thanks for posting this Ricardo.

Yes, the idea of killing off Element Lad is my least favorite part of the outline. At least Shooter qualifies it as a maybe, and perhaps he wouldn't have done it. The limitations that Waid put on Element Lad's powers weren't that confusing. They made him a very workable character who could be effectively included in battle scenes without us questioning why he didn't just transmute the oxygen around any given villain to interon and be done with it. His death in L3W was my least favorite part of that story.

Wow, what an outline!

Parts I liked: The build-up of the ADs storyline, the resolution of the bureaucracy (Go, M'rissey!), Invisible Kid's character overall -- particularly his shyness, his need for his father's approval, and the first favor he asks of Brainy.

To Lyle, impressing Giselle was as important as saving the universe! Typical teenager.

What I didn't like: IKid's second favor from Brainy -- it comes out of left field and strikes me as another token way of using sexuality to stir up controversy. The resolution of Projectra's arc (which, otherwise, was riveting). Again, there was no setup for her big reveal (at least not in this outline), and it always feels anticlimactic when the villain gets away (no real spoiler here). The inclusion of the Legion of the 41st century, a trite "the future cannot be changed" subplot that adds little to the story.

I think I might have enjoyed reading the actual issues, though I had read only Shooter's first issue (# 37) of the actual run. The plot of that issue was the same as published (IIRC), so it's unlikely that I would have continued with the series had this outline reached fruition. Many of Shooter's ideas, such as LLad not being cut out to be leader, rehashed old ideas, but did so in relatively fresh ways. (And, as the outline suggests, he even had more rehashings in the works: the Subs, Super Lad.)

But I'll give Shooter his due: he tells an old story very well.

Shooter's memories of Weisinger. Yikes!

http://www.jimshooter.com/2011/03/regrets.html

Wow. I knew Mort was a horrible man, but until now I didn't really understand why.

Truly sad story about Weisinger. And if the stories of Shooter's time atop Marvel are true, a textbook case of people's abusive environments perpetuating themselves and being passed on.

Shooter must have had a lot of strength of character and love for his family not to fold under such abuse. I wonder how many of today's writers and artists would be similarly motivated.

I've always thought that Shooter's famous interpersonal issues might somehow have been the result of his bizarre childhood. This interview seems to suggest that that may indeed be true.

Hands up. How many of us thought he was the luckiest kid alive at the time? Makes his achievements even more amazing IMHO.

More from Jim on his Super Lad:

Super Lad

Interesting info on Super Lad

I agree with Shooter that heroes ("Supers") should be noble and larger than life, and that attempts to humanize them over the years have resulted in heroes becoming, as Shooter puts it, villains.

It would have been interesting to see how his Super Lad would have been received. Would a generation (several generations by now) raised with the idea of "darker," villain-like heroes have accepted a classic icon of the past? Or is there something universal about such a character that he (or she) would appeal to the best in all of us?

Sadly, I guess we'll never know. I've been skim-reading the reboot threads, and, if the news is true, it looks as if DC has completely lost sight of what makes their characters more than just popular. If the company believes it must rely on gimmicks such as renumbering series and de-aging characters to make them "relevant" to today's readers, then the company either has a low opinion of its audience or we as a society have discarded anything of value beyond the shiny, ephemeral moment.

Incidentally, here's Shooter's non-insider\'s take on DC's possible motives behind the reboot.

This has been one of the most interesting threads to come along in a while - thanks to Ricardo for getting it started.

I have always been a fan of Mr. Shooter's work, and was super excited when he returned and super disappointed on how it ended. I still regret that the decision was made to pick up where the Waid story and characters left off, since I thought that whole experiment was a disaster. Still, the printed stories by Shooter were done well, and the text provided here would have made some even better story, which is a great credit to Shooter for salvaging the series at all. Francis Manapul is obviously a talented artist, but it was obvious from the start that his forte was not in illustrating science fiction. Being a slave to detail, Mr Shooter could not help but be frustrated with the situation, and apparently the editors at DC were of little help.

It would have been great to (re)incorporate Super Lad back into the Legion mythos.

However, from Mr. Shooter's description and illustration, I don't understand how this new character would be any different, legally speaking in regard to the DC vs. Siegel and Shuster case, from Superboy or Superboy-Prime?

http://www.jimshooter.com/2011/05/legion-overview-question-and-answer.html

"Dan informed me that I had to write Karate Kid and Duo Damsel out of my story because Geoff Johns was using them in some storyline of his. I asked how Johns had the right to usurp those characters. Dan said that Johns was so late with his scripts that his books went in and out of the house before things like that could be reviewed and considered, much less changed."

What a horrible lack of professionalism. And of course the one who had to suffer from it was Shooter, not DiDio or Johns.

Unless Johns was killing them off, or writing some story that was undeniably happening in the 31st century concurrently with the Legion issues being published instead of the 21st century, I don't understand why a character can't appear in two stories at once.

Or even if they are happening in the same century for that matter. But once you throw in time travel, it's just plain silly to make an issue of it.

PS and now I read this:
"The sad thing is, as it turned out, Johns was using the seventies versions of the LSH characters. There was no real need at all to change my story."