Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes JSA/JLA/Legion Crossover (spoilers)

I was thinking that she saw what we saw, the Lightning seeming to strike Karate Kid full on and just concluded that he died.

Yes it was just foreplay and we may be cheap easy to please fans when we see the pre-crisis Legion BUT just a few pages ago we where all talking about butterflies we got in our gut.

When was the last time we've said about any incarnation of the Legion.

I remember the Pacheco Superman/Batman arc where he drew the Cockrum Legion. It was exciting. This was 10 times more exciting.

Thing is it's not over. They will appear in Action Comics. Star Man is over at the JSA and Karate Kid is around.

The foreplay/tease may pay off.

The itsy-bitsy spider? Violet? Didn't Star Man mention that? would explain why we didn't see her.

Ah, interesting theory on Violet, Jorge.

Jim, I also noticed the lack of cape and hear what you are saying about the lightning. My explanation would be that if Kara were revived, she would have had to have been in the speed force. All of the modern Flashes are shown to draw their powers from "tapping into" the speed force, and apparently that's where they go when they die. Superman and the modern Supergirl have never been assocaited with the speed force. The post Byrne Kryptonians are powered down and don't display the same level of speed as the pre Crisis ones. It could be argued that the pre Crisis Kara did access the speed force explaining why she was so much faster, and got drawn into it when she died much as Barry did. Karate Kid not being killed wouldn't be as much of an issue. It would have been a single action that released Wally and family, Kara, and pulled Barry into Val's rod (if that is indeed what occurred). Three super heroes for the price of one, with a wife and kids thrown in as a bonus. Whatever saved Val when Wally was released would still apply. Linda and the kids managed to change clothes while they were in speed force, so I imagine Kara could have found an outfit that doesn't include a cape.

I hope you relaize these suggestions are about half tounge in cheek. It really is a guessing game at this point.

It could be that those assuming it is just Dream Girl staying behind are correct. However, I got the impression she was going back, when Thom told Mr. Terrific, "I can't let it take me with the others... ...Dream Dream told me". That made me think he and Nura had an off panel conversation about Thom staying behind alone. In the Fortress, she says to the others, "Thom isn't coming." If she were going to stay wouldn't she have added "and neither am I"?

Oh well, the speculating has been fun. Time will hopefully tell.

This was the impression I got and the conversation I was referring to as well. I just couldn't remember the exact quote from Thom when I was posting.

I got the impression that Karate Kid was referring to himself when he said Wally was not the fastest. I thought he was bragging that he was fast enough to dodge a lightning bolt.

I thought Jeckie calling Val "Sweetie" was uncharacteristically casual and "common" for her. Her proclamations of love were always more regal and formal, calling Val "my heart" and "my love," etc.

Yeah to all of that and it was still more fun for me than all of Waids 30 looooong boring issues. I hated Waids run that much. I hate that he doesn't like any character created after the Advneture era (still stunned that he actully included Timber Wolf), I hated his whole social agenda bit, I hated most of the personalitys he slapped onto characters. Basically I hated most of the run.

So yeah seeing Wildfire, Dawnstar, Sensor Girl, and the rest even with a few tweaks was still 100 times better than Waids run. If any thing it got me more interested in what was going on with this Legion than I ever was with Waids. What is wrong in their future that they want to keep Superman from finding out? How did the 3 founders bring Karate Kid back to life? Is Alya dead in their time, and if so what happened? Why is Wildfire in the body of the Red Tornado? Who is in the rod they brought back (Barry? Bart?), and so on.
In five issues they had me asking more questions about the Legion than Waid ever did, and these are actully questions I want answered. Most of my Questions with Waids run were "how much longer is this lame story going to last".

So I don't mind buying a few issues of Action for a story with the Legion that actully acts like the Legion.

Oh, yeah. Jay fought in WWII? That makes him AT LEAST 80! Retire the poor guy already!

The Flashes don't just fall into the Speed Force when they die - what happens is that they get pulled in if they run FTL. Post-Zero Hour Barry's death was retconned so that, instead of aging to dust, he got pulled in (see JLA: Incarnations #5; which superceded the Post-Crisis retcon from Secret Origins that, instead of aging to dust, he turned into the lightning bolt that hit himself).

It's very arguable whether the Speed Force even existed Pre-Crisis, and even if it did, Supergirl died from being fried by the Anti-Monitor rather than speeding to death.

Maybe she was channeling Pleasantville?????

Reese Witherjectra

No, Joan Allenjectra, Sweetie!

Although I like Reese Witherjectra.

So, I just read the conclusion last night. And I definitely burst into tears. Seriously, I'm really glad I read that alone. >< Because it was, like, for ten minutes. Because... because... I love him! He's back! My boy-- my favorite...

I'm so happy.

I mean, I wish the ending to Flash: TFMA #13 was different. (I loved everything with Bart up until that series.) But... to have Wally... as Flash... so worth it. Ironically, I even told someone that the other day. God, so happy.

Now, maybe I missed it in the 38 pages before this one but does anyone know why Brin says, "Now you're not alone. You can thank us later," to Hal? Because... I mean, I know Hal and Wally were close but it was nothing on Barry and Hal's friendship. (Was it?)

Maybe he meant Hal was not the only one to return from death . . . ?

Just a guess. I didn't get it either.

Brin wasn't that good with history and mistook Wally for Barry??????

(what was I thinking typing "mistaked"???)

Just read it. I'm not too keen on the potential loss of Ayla and the Wildfire being in Red Tornado's body idea, but it was a better depiction of the Legion than the genocidal Cosmic-Boy lovefest I've had to put up with in the other title. I guess it doesn't take a lot of action for me to be happy with a legion story. Give me the actual legion waiting for a table in a Chinese restaurant and I'd be happy. Plus, it's re-establishing the tie between superman and the legion--something I think both titles benefit from.

My fevered interpretations:
The lightning rods were designed to capture the essence of Barry Allen and did. For Lightning Lad's rebirth, the lightning stuck the rod & proty and proty's essence was transferred through that disk he was touching. Here, the "lightning rods" used by the legionnaires are more like the disk because the lightning already had someone's essence--Barry Allen's. The only reason a legionnaire would have died would be from the side effect of having been struck by lightning. Karate Kid, however, overcame that. In addition, the lightning had hosted the West family, so they incidentally popped back once it had been captured. What Brainy plans to do with Barry’s essence is up to future issues of, probably, Countdown or the next Crisis.

Speaking of Countdown, Val is stopped from returning with the others by someone stepping through a similar sort of time portal—a “legion time portal” I’ll call it. That person appears to be male and refers to Brainy familiarly. Val then runs off with someone who appears to be female. Thus, Val was joined by Chameleon Boy or by both Invisible Kid and a female member of the Espionage Squad.

I was so close to referencing that issue, but I decided to look it up and upon rereading the pages realized he used a bit of knowledge and luck to spot the flaw. My swiss cheese of a memory had convinced myself he sensed the weakness. I'll bet the writers of this crossover were thinking of this same scene!

So I'm all confused by this ending.

First of all, I had no idea Wally was even dead or missing or whatever, so his return wasn't terribly exciting for me.

But there were some references that made me wonder what was up. Preparing to quite possibly die, Timber Wolf says, 'I'm coming Ayla.' which makes it sound like she's dead in this version of the Legion. Whether or not he meant, 'I'm coming' in the sense of 'coming to join you' or 'coming to *rescue* you' was unclear, and she could be the face in the rod, or she could be mystery lass walking away with Karate Kid (or hey, she could be *both,* with Mystery Lass being a future version of Ayla after Brainy has gotten her out of the lightning rod or something!). Hard to say.

As with so many 'twist endings,' I was left feeling that they just sort of threw darts at a board to pick the end. The return of whatshisface and family seems to have been completely unrelated to what the Legion was doing, which leaves me hopeful that this means that there will be a Legion book coming out of this. It makes little sense for them to introduce this story, which, ultimately, had nothing to do with Wally West (since even Brainiac was surprised to find out he was somehow 'riding the lightning'), and never finish said story.

Perhaps Ayla is missing and presumed dead. The 80s Ayla was gone from the Legion for a year and nobody knew where she was. Maybe this version never returned and the Legion now fears the worst.

(I have my doubts the story where she regains her lightning powers and rejoins to replace her retired brother will be a part of this new continuity. Besides, with Star Boy out of the picture, her gravity powers would be needed.)

There were lots of other times when Val used that ability. Didn't he use it in the one where Grimbor chained up the Earth?

In the Johns/Meltzer Newsarama interview, Johns alludes to the upcoming Superman/Legion story in Action. The way he describes it suggests that this Legion has been "hiding" from Superman since the first Crisis, and I got the impression things hadn't gone very well for this Legion. Maybe T-Wolf's Ayla comment had something to do with that. Of course, I'm just old enough to find it a hilarious comment, because it reminds me of Red Fox on "Sanford & Son," who, in times of stress, would clutch his heart and say "I'm comin' to join ya, Elizabeth!"

The other thing I thought of, but then dismissed, is that, in the history of this Legion, it was Ayla, not Proty, who gave her life to revive Lightning Lad. Of course, I dismissed it because in "real" Legion history, Brin Londo didn't make his first appearance until after Lightning Lad was revived. Maybe I shouldn't be so hasty, this seems like just the sort of thing Meltzer and Johns would do. (Which, following the logic, would make "Lightning Lad" really Ayla, or at least part Ayla, which makes any subsequent relationship with Saturn Girl...interesting). Damn you, Johns and Meltzer!

Well, I think there is a profem angle to this story that we are all missing.

After all, one clever anagram for "The Lightning Saga" is "genital angst high."

From Brainy's comments at the end, it seems that he was not expecting Wally to be the one freed - so Barry presumably was the goal. That would explain the comments to Hal.

Brainy also seems to think Wally's presense was a deviation from history as well? That makes sense. If Wildfire really is somehow Reddy and that's not a long-term red herring (no pun intended), than of course he should have remembered the outcome. So I suspect this outcome could be a splintering of the timeline hat will factor into Final Crisis.

I had heard Wally was gone, but didn't know the g/f (mrs?) was also gone. Are those kids theirs?

okay. caught up on the last few pages. West family Qs answered.

I thought it was Dream Girl based on this week's COuntdown issue, which showed Star Man, Karate Kid and Dream Girl aboard the JLA Satellite HQ. I was a couple of panels into that scene when I realized that it seems to have actually taken place TWO MONTHS AGO, in publishing time, and should have be printed about the time of "The Lightning Saga, part Two."

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But I don't think K Kid could've revived Supergirl if that's what y'all are implying because he didn't sacrifice his life, which is how the lightning rod thingy is supposed to work.

It's doesn't really look to me like the Legion intended to sacrafice anyone, or revive anyone. What I got out of Brainy's reaction was that bringing back Wall was an unforseen byproduct. The real mission appears to have been to trap someone inside the duralim wand. But who's face is that in the wand? Barry? Max Mercury? Jenni? Someone else entirely from the speed force?

Wally West? We're supposed to get excited about the Legion bringing back Wally West? (Like Jim, I didn't even know he was gone.)

I wish it could have been someone more Legion-related. It would have been cool if they actually brought back Proty I - doesn't he deserve to be resuscitated for his sacrifice? Especially when nobody had to die this time around. Or Chemical King, or Ferro Lad or Trip's third body(which would have been a nice tie-in to Projectra's illusion.)

But Wally West? Who bloody cares?

Time will tell how much of an impact this will have on the Legion I guess.