Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Wizard and the Legion

But how much of this is in accuracy on the part of Wizard versus Waid?

Even so, being endorsed by someone and being on that person's payroll are not necessarily the same thing. My guess is that the Legion is endorsed because they are useful but at the same time they are challenging society.

While I'm glad that he won't be retelling stories (mainly because new versions just wouldn't hold up to the originals), I don't see how he can not use the Fatal Five or Mordru.

These two have taken on a life of their own and have appeared in current DC continuity.

I was never crazy about Universo, but not using the FF or the mean old sorcerer would be such a waste.

I hope the silly Lad/Lass names are deep-sixed within the first years, because no matter Waid's argument for them...they are freakin' LAME!

I love the Lad/Lass names. I think they help establish the series beyond you're average Marvel/Image/Wildstorm/etc. hero group and should remain forever. Why not call Superman, the Super; Batman, the Bat; Wonder Woman, the Wonder; Spider-Man, the Spider; etc.

As far as Universo goes. Why not have Rond Vidar be one of the aspiring, but powerless Legionnaires. His father, Vidar, could be among those adults who oppose the idea of the Legion and eventually gains possesion of a "Magic Eye" that allows him to control their behavior. It could provide a needed catalyst for Waid's storyline and if he does it right, he could add some new dimensions to it all. For those of us who like not so obvious connections to the general DCU, the "Magic Eye" could be the same that Mark Merlin used.

Adding such layers to the future adventures doesn't negate new readers from picking up the series, but keeps us informed readers coming back for more. You can't tell me that a new reader will drop the book if they realize that Rond, his father Vidar, or Mark Merlin all appeared before the Legion issue they just bought. Comic book fans just don't think that way, or at least this one doesn't. And frankly, I think they need me too, if they want this book to sell.

Super's an adjective, Batman IS often known as "the Bat", Wonder Woman, no good reason, unless you like alliteration and I think someone else has "the Spider" trademarked.

The point is their names are their trademarks. So are the Legionnaires. Why change them?

Well, firstly you picked quite probably THE four best-known superheroes on the planet, which makes change pretty much impossible, unfortunately. If a Legionnaire is even an eighth as well known, they'd be doing well.

As for why change them? Orange shirt syndrome. If someone wants to mock a superhero, the first thing they bring up is Superman's choice of underwear (NB: I wish they'd change that too). The next most common thing? Lad/Lass names (Aquaman's infamous shirt's up there too). They're a point of ridicule for most people, not fondness.

It's not even something they can't or won't change - from the TMK era (that's 15 years ago!) onward, Element Lad is the ONLY Lad/Lass the LSH has consistantly had. Why Waid wants to take such a retrograde step is beyond me.

What's this orange shirt thing you keep refering to? I've never heard anyone ridiculing Aquaman's shirt. I guess we don't hang out in the same circles.

People can ridule anything. Why avoid something you like just to avoid a handful of naysayers who have nothing better to do than make fun of make believe characters. The Legion had Lad/Lass names when they were the second best seller.

Who are these "most people?"

well i for one, was happy to see all that LEGION coverage in this months "WIZARD" !!!

having the ad for the first issue was great, a nice surprize when i opened it up !!!

and also DC will have paid a high price for that ad page !!! [ coming from a graphic design background ] that's the 3rd most expensive ad page in a publication !!!

the 1st being the back cover page, then the 2nd being the inside cover page, and then the one with the LEGION !!!

Matthew.

NC you make valid points. I am not a big fan of the lad/lass stuff but you convinced me. The use of just the adventure characters IMO is Waid's biggest mistake thus far. Would it have killed them to add one to three characters of a later era...or possibly a brand new one?

Also the Universo/Darkseid comments are all good...as long as he doesn't use any other long time Legion foe...say if Waid was a big fan of Nardo or something. I can excuse Mordu and the Time Trapper cause they are practically part of the Legion mythos IMO.

Finally...hype? Heck yes. Waid said this will be the highest selling book next summer. Most of us here know that isn't true...still i don't mind Waid trying to push the book as much as possible.

Am I the only one who finds that the replacement names often sound just as lame as the original Lad/Lass names did? Alchemist I actually liked okay, but Gossamer? Live Wire? Andromeda? Umbra? I think almost any super hero name basically sounds stupid, but maybe that's just me. And if they don't sound stupid, then they sound so vague or meaningless that the whole point in a 'code name' seems lost. But the Lad/Lass names sort of have the excuse of seeming "grandfathered" in, like Superman or Wonder Woman.

I'm not saying I'm desperately in love with the Lad/Lass/Boy/Girl names, or anything. Just that making new "modern" style names wouldn't seem like much of an improvement to me, so might as well go with tradition instead of trying to find new, bolder ways to call them dorky things!

"Brainiac 5" not counting since it's a title, of course.

Helloooo....

"Live Wire" is infinitely cooler than "Lightning Lad" and I should know because I base all of my judgments for what to read on how cool they will make me by association.

Funny, I thought the same thing a decade ago, only those characters had been around for over 35 years, [/QB][/QUOTE]

Agreed, FerroLad; However, when they did it last time, they did their best to at least wrap up the loose ends. There were very few (if any) loose ends that I can think of. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though.

You're probably correct, Lantern. I'm still not said for their loss.

As for naming, I prefer to Lad/Lass stuff - but that's almost certainly because I hated T&M's SW6 Legionnaires and the bad taste in my mouth has never quite gone away. (That is, names like Live Wire and Inferno debuted in L*.)

Agreed, the return of Lad/Lass will be fun. Umbra was always my least favorite of the updated names. although I did like Spark for Ayla. Seemed to fit her personality...

Anyone hear if there will be a Lar Gand in this new incarnation? I would be interesting to see if the Valor legend lives in this timeline.

I agree with Nightcrawler. I didn't mind the updated names of the reboot until Magno, Umbra and Sensor joined and I realised just how boring and generic most of these so-called 'kewl'er names were.

The distinct and original Lad/Lass/Boy/Girl/Kid names are a welcome return IMO.

I have to say that I most like a mixture of the names... some lads, lasses, boys and girls serving alongside Wildfire, Tellus and Kinetix.

In the upcoming reality, the names are chosen to link with a past, right? Or will there be more to it? We're 'joining' the Legionnaires a couple of years into their existence... and it seems from previews that at least a few of the group are pushing for change... maybe names are a part of that.

When the creators want to, they can always have various factions of the Legion represent differing views of the fans.

Thanks for the scans, Gary, as I never would have bought Wizard myself.

I suppose they feel this contemptuous of the earlier fans because they want to show their independence ... or, to be fair, because Waid does. He's the only one, I believe, who's shown this attitude. I haven't heard it from Kitson, Wacker, or Levitz.

They may be "sticking it to The Man" in the series, by having the Legion be independent in fact from the U.P. government (endorsement is, indeed, not the same as support). "The Man" in the context of the current market for these stories is, o'course, us creaking old-timers, who are now as "disposable" as any Legion character.

That we despised older fans happen to buy the Archives, the action figures, the coffee-table books, the other ancillary merchandise that's far more profitable than the monthlies to DC ... this, naturally, is immaterial to them, when they can get off a good insult.

Most of us have more cash lying around than most 20somethings for such stuff, but who cares, right? Just reboot the Legion monthly and, while you're at it, cancel the Silver-to-Bronze-Age Legion action figures series as well. Who cares about cultivating our piddling market when you can get street cred with Wizard?

... Okay, cynicism now turned down a notch. And I'm willing to give this new reboot a year, at the very least. Yet this new broom sweeping out the older fans, with a retro-that-ain't-retro sensibility, is both misguided and muddled. It doesn't help the Legion's prospects, for the ten years -- no more -- remaining of the monthly printed comics market.

Waid said he would be problematic (no details) but didn't rule him out.

I'll agree. In particular, Live Wire annoys me because I _hated_ SW6 Garth with a passion. Since the Legion thereafter followed with mostly-Ladless
code names, I didn't like it. Certain names work - like Wildfire, Timber Wolf, Dawnstar, Kinetix, and XS, but at least these characters started out with those names.

Isn't Brainiac supposed to be leading the charge for change? I got that feeling that the team was supposed to change their stance on this at some point, which would allow members like Wildfire, Dawnstar, etc. to eventually join. IOW, more or less a reflection of the Silver Age Legion.

To reminisce for a moment, I remember my excitement over Sensor girl when she was introduced. After a decade or so of names like Wildfire, Dawnstar, Mentalla, Quislet, Charma et.al. I recall being thrilled at both the mystery surrounding her identity and the love of the retro style name. Even my room mate who always gave me a hard time about the "kid's club" aspect of the LSH liked her and sat with me for hours digging through the stacks of Legion comics helping me look for clues.
it was fun...

Look again at the last panel of the posted comic shop preview (that would be pg.6 of #1) and tell me how many Legionnaires are there. A thousand? Barry drew a crowd a (dare I say it? Sure I do) Legion of teenagers waiting for the group we know to arrive at the clubhouse.
It's almost impossible to imagine that every one of them is a Kid, Lass, Lad, Boy or Girl.

Did Laurel Gand ever have codename? I got the impression that 'Andromeda' was the only one she ever got.

I always liked to call her Valor-Girl.

Which just goes to illustrate why Lar Gand was never a suitable replacement for Superboy. It throws the whole naming thing off for his cousin!

I always thought the names for Marvel's version of the Legion (Imperial Guard) were the best. In fact, Dave Cockrum's best design work for the Legion was probably the work he did creating the Imperial Guard. He went a step further by making the IG actually look like different aliens...not just Earthlings.

My favortie Marvelization of the Legion was Oracle (over Saturn Girl). I guess Oracle would actually have been a better name for Dream Girl (who wasn't in the IG), but it's better than being names after the planet the character was from.

I though Kid Flash's name was cool, because he used Kid first...and kid doesn't have a juvenille connotation like boy or lad. I just can't imagine any character 16 or over referring to himself as a boy. Kid, yes. Boy, no.

You obviously haven't looked at the ages in the profiles around here.

In any case, this is all relative to how people perceive age. Right now, adolescence is considered to have stretched out into the mid-20s, which has a lot to do with the age in which children become independent and our increasing life-spans. A lot of this could factor into their naming decisions - perhaps even intentionally so to highlight their youth in regard to drafting.