Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes ADVENTURE COMICS #1 (#504) SPOILERS!

I keep hearing about these fabled paradise comic shops that charge the same price for regular and variant covers. WHERE CAN I FIND THESE SHOPS?!? Most of the stores I've been to add another $10-$20 to the price of all their variant covers.

AAAAAAARRRRGGGGHHH!!!

Please NO!!

Does Batman have to run every freaking thing in the DC universe? Hell, even "Superman X" in the Legion cartoon was essentially a marketing attempt to get Batman in there without using the name.

Gah. Enough already. Save it for Elseworlds, DC.

I read it a week ago at the start of my vacation, and my impressions were generally positive. And I say that as someone who has NEVER liked the clone Superboy. Ever. But this was intriguing, with his secret interest in Luthor. We may finally get to see a decent take on someone being SuperBOY, not just little Superman or annoying character you wish weren't connected to Superman. The Legion story was...not a story. The error on labeling Legionnaires was unforgivable. The art is promising, even with the big foreheads. It's good to know the Legion has some sort of future. At my more cynical moments, I worry that Johns is just the master of some story-telling ponzi scheme that never resolves anything. At other times, I'm happy his stories build and grow off of each other so well.

Sorry to upset you.


Bats has already done a Legion story, during the Lightning Saga, I think.

I actually agree on Superboy, but if they've got to use him, do it well. Any Superboy not stuck in Silver Age sitcomy Leave-it-to-Beaverdom is an improvement.

I've been less a fan of Krypto than of Superboy. Super-powered animals make Silver Age Lex Luthor's escapes from jail on shoes with giant springs seem like good storytelling in comparison.

A team-up in Brave & The Bold (not the all-ages version) I believe.

Understood, though I suppose it comes down to how "realistic" one wants their comics to be. There's something about a dog with super-powers which feels right and fun to me, though it's hardly realistic. Angsty super-powered teens are certainly more believable than the Silver Age norm, but most of them bore me to tears.

Bats went up against Karate Kid in Justice League #8.

Justice Society #5 had Starman finding Dream Girl in Arkham Asylum, where Doctor Destiny was using Dream Girl's connection to the Dreaming to manifest the Asylum patients nightmares of Batman.

And Action Comics #864 would count.

Agreed. I never liked Superclark, because the age and it's themes never really appealed to me. Superconner, on the other hand, feels more like a real person and less like a Happy Days character.

In the context of the 60s, I didn't mind Krypto. In the modern day, I'd prefer for him to go away.

Certain titles have a whacky-fun or 'out-there' tone, and the presence of Cosmo in Guardians of the Galaxy is a riot, but the presence of Krypto in a comic title that has characters like Prime guest-starring just feels jarring and inappropriate.

In the long run, a super-powered Kryptonian dog with a cape is no more ludicrous than a human-male-shaped Kyptonian with those sorts of powers, running around with his underwear on the outside like that guy that gets kicked out of the frat party for embarassing even the drunken professional ne'er-do-wells.

Actually, I feel it's the other way around, Prime is the one who's jarring and inappropriate, in every way.

Krypto, on the other hand, is a breath of sanity and joy, in a comic industry (and world) gone mad.

I think that Prime and Krypto are the opposite extremes and as such I don't like either.

When it comes to Krypto, it is hard enough to accept a giant planet that has developed a race of people that are exactly the same as caucasion humans but live in a world of jewel mountains , fire falls etc. And then amongst all the weird creatures on Krypton are domesticated animals that look and behave like Earth's domesticated wolves. It is a stretch of parallel evolution too far. And don't get me started about Beppo the super-monkey...

When I read these comments the one thing that becomes clear to me is that the only way this Legion this is going to work is if DC produces two Legion series, because I most definitely do like the Legion that Superboy and Krypto were a part of etc...and I don't get much from the Legions they weren't a part of at all, to me those Legions are just another Superteam...and this includes the one written by Paul Levitz after the COIE.

Also, those other Legions are the ones I have been reading every since the COIE, that get rebooted every couple of years, I say it's because they lack those very things other don't want to see...other people say they have not caught on because of the writing.

I'm pretty much certain beyond all doubt that it's not the writing, especially when looking at the list of writers to wok on the title since the COIE, and various things they have tried, but I guess we all have our own opinions on that.

Ultimately there is only one way to find out, and that's to give the fans both.

And I think DC is about to attempt just that.


Only one of them is going to be called the New Wanderers. Works for me since Superboy and Krypto were part of the fabric of the Legion that was a cornerstone of DC whereas the other Legions never really were. So I do think the one Superboy and Krypto(or at least the one resembling that) were a part of should be the one bearing the name.

And as for the New Wanderers, it looks like the Reboot is going to serve as the Supermanless Legion and that's probably not a bad idea as they were arguably the best written and conceived of the post crisis Legions(except for the needless power changes). They certainly were in publication the longest.


Personally, I don't see a whole lot of difference between the Supermanless Legion and the L.E.G.I.O.N./R.E.B.E.L.S. title that is out right now conceptually. It's about as realistic as a space team can be. So hopefully the New Wanderers will fare better than that one is...and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the writing and art on that title

And I do know this, and I know I speak for all fans that do like Superboy in the Legion, we deserve a title too, the one we want to see deserves a chance to fail on it's own merits
(and not editorial decisions or legal manuevering).

Well said.

I can see that. But I've had enough of Prime, so I can appreciate Candle's p.o.v. too.

I've always subscribed to the idea of Kryptonian powers being psionic rather than physical (other than fueled by solar power, that is), so a dog with the same powers does seem more ludicrous to me. But I concede there is room to debate.

as for the costume (even beyond tradition), in a comics-universe where people have been dressing that way since the 40s, it would seem no more unusual than the spandex bodysuits we see athletes in these days. But I'm nit-picking for the sake of discussion.

If you want to have comics, meaning the next generation of 40 somethings paying real money for them, then there's better be a Beppo, Streaky and Krypto for the younger crowd and if a few of us older something happen to like it too? Well, it keeps us off the roads so in the BIG picture, Krypto is good for you superdog haters.


A kid going through father problems has got to have a dog. As long when told to speak, he doesn't recite Shakespeare, I'm happy with a superdog in the mainstream, it makes my tummy warm.

Well, yes, it would be, but it's most probably not parallel evolution.

Like Star Trek, with it's many worlds of humanoid development, the DCU was probably 'seeded'.

If we go with seeded, not as Valor did, but at a 'plasma pool' level, beings similar to Earth flora and fauna would develop.

In Kryptonian development, the environment (those crystal mountains and fire falls) wasn't enough to create major physical differences in species from Earth, except on some basic level not even realized by Kryptonians until their exposure to a sun that isn't red.

As far as powers go, we share eyesight, hearing, taste, touch, smell, pain, thought and etc., with the animals around us.
Why would it be impossible for Kryptonian animals to share an inate ability to be solar batteries and use that power in similar ways to the humanoids of their world?

Even insects and invertebrates share many of our senses and abilities.
Even flat worms have eye spots.

I DO agree about the cape, it's silly.
But I know LOTS of people who put clothes on their dogs.
Maybe, Krypto should have a red bandana with an S on it, rather than a cape.

Even when they were supposed to be 'aliens,' I always thought of the vast majority of Legion home worlds as Earth colonies. Titan is the most egregious offender, but Braal, Winath, Cargg, etc. could easily be colony-worlds.

I just roll my eyes whenever Super-whomever shows up. Those sorts of characters are narrative kryptonite. Either Superman uses a tenth of his powers and the threat is neutralized before the rest of the Superfriends even have time to hear the Trouble Alert, or Superman stands around like a big blue dork, allowing his friends to be endangered, so that they get to show off their insignificant powers. "Yes, let's wait for Hawkman to get here and hit it with a stick. I'll go stop an earthquake in Chile, catch a falling airliner over Osaka and rescue some trapped mineworkers in South Africa while he's flapping his way to the battle..."

As long as Conner has only a fraction of a Kryptonian's strength (and doesn't seem particularly tougher than Cassie), he's usable.

As much as I didn't care for the way they dealt with the 'Last Son of Krypton' thing by removing Superboy from the Legion's history, I think that the writing would benefit hugely from there being something *special* about Kal (and Lar) and there not be entire races full of people with the powers of Superboy/Mon-El.

It would also nip the 'mind-controlled army of Daxamites' plotline in the bud, since it's already been used too often.

Instead of *every* Kryptonian / Daxamite gaining planet-shaking power under a yellow sun, I'd rather it be that the long spaceship journey undertaken by both Kal and Lar exposed them to something special, that allowed them to convert solar energy into vast power. Perhaps the process required falling through a spatial distortion, or into a black hole, or a journey that went horribly wrong and took *millenia*, so that it can't be easily replicated to pump out hundreds of super-people, super-dogs, super-cats, super-monkeys, etc.

Like Jo Nah or Garth/Ayla/Mekt?


We might prefer it that way, but that's not how it's been done, so we have to go with what we have.
I think, anyway.

There are MANY humanoid worlds that are NOT colonized historically or any other wise, in the DCU, though.
Krypton, Colu, Tallok VIII, Kundia, Lobo's home world, and hundreds and hundreds of others.

In the Valor universes, he 'seeded' worlds with Dominator experiments but that hasn't happened in universe 0.
I suspect New Krypton may do that with the Brainiac worlds this time, but they won't be Earth experimant colonists, since they all came from their own homeworlds at one time.

And in the whole DCU at this time, there is only New Krypton and Daxam, Krypton's ancient colony, who share those superpowers under a yellow sun and Daxam has that horrible lead weakness so I don't find the issue to be a terrible problem.

I DO think that a lot of the Kryptonian superpowers may be beyond MOST of the animals from their homeworld.
They may all share the 'battery' ability but most may only show it with invulnerability and superstrength.
Some may 'float' or automatically use infrared or X-ray vision, but the powers that Kal had to learn to control, like flying and heat vision, would be beyond them.
Except for exceptional canines, felines and monkeys, maybe.

re: superboy says above: "Personally, I don't see a whole lot of difference between the Supermanless Legion and the L.E.G.I.O.N./R.E.B.E.L.S. title that is out right now conceptually".

i dunno about that. the "New Wanderers" float thru dimensions holding hands in a big conga line. they don't eat or read or fight crime. they just float. AND they are duplicates of the Legion in Adventure. same powers, same identities ONLY just some of the names are different and some of them look a little different, and...
pretty lame concept if you ask me. if you can't say it it one sentence then it's not a marketable concept.

"Look it's Superman's friends from the future, Brainiac 5 and Saturn Girl!" " no, it's the Brainiac 5 from Earth Prime because that Saturn Girl is mute, and that Dream Girl loves Brainy not Star Boy... er... Starman." "um..."
too confusing. we just need one legion to care about not 3 Legions.

NEW WANDERERS: The team that floats thru dimensions holding hands in a big conga line.

I'd at least have to check out the first issue, even if it wasn't LSH related...

re: superboy says above: "Personally, I don't see a whole lot of difference between the Supermanless Legion and the L.E.G.I.O.N./R.E.B.E.L.S. title that is out right now conceptually".

i dunno about that. the "New Wanderers" float thru dimensions holding hands in a big conga line. they don't eat or read or fight crime. they just float. AND they are duplicates of the Legion in Adventure. same powers, same identities ONLY just some of the names are different and some of them look a little different, and...
pretty lame concept if you ask me. if you can't say it it one sentence then it's not a marketable concept.

"Look it's Superman's friends from the future, Brainiac 5 and Saturn Girl!" " no, it's the Brainiac 5 from Earth Prime because that Saturn Girl is mute, and that Dream Girl loves Brainy not Star Boy... er... Starman." "um..."
too confusing. we just need one legion to care about not 3 Legions.

re: superboy says above: "Personally, I don't see a whole lot of difference between the Supermanless Legion and the L.E.G.I.O.N./R.E.B.E.L.S. title that is out right now conceptually".

i dunno about that. the "New Wanderers" float thru dimensions holding hands in a big conga line. they don't eat or read or fight crime. they just float. AND they are duplicates of the Legion in Adventure. same powers, same identities ONLY just some of the names are different and some of them look a little different, and...
pretty lame concept if you ask me. if you can't say it it one sentence then it's not a marketable concept.

"Look it's Superman's friends from the future, Brainiac 5 and Saturn Girl!" " no, it's the Brainiac 5 from Earth Prime because that Saturn Girl is mute, and that Dream Girl loves Brainy not Star Boy... er... Starman." "um..."
too confusing. we just need one legion to care about not 3 Legions.

Yeowwwwsir!
Who's the last one in line so I can grab his/her . . . hand!

But yeah, I think they need a house and transportation.
It wouldn't be the first time they 'took' what they needed from some generous soul.

I was pleasantly surprised by #1. Although it felt like onethe story seemed to be stretched longer than it should have been (both of them), I can see why there might purposely be a slow burn build-up.

I collected Superboy's entire last series and this was already as good as that ever was (and there were times it was pretty good). I didn't realize how much I missed the character, which shows how long he's been misused these last few years.

Also glad to see a Smallville that isn't from the 1930's. Thank you Smallville TV Series for showing people that can be done.

Lot of interesting things appear to be developing, with some new characters.

The Starman back-up was okay but the set-up for future things is exciting. Element Lad, Tellus, Dream Girl, Starman...all of them in the present time, obviously with something tied to Superboy. I'm intrigued. Johns is purposely creating a slow build rather than a Legion title immediately and maybe thats a better approach considering the last several attempts were complete failures sale-wise. He might be waiting until after Blackest Night is over. And his slow-build approach helped create excitement for Sinestro Corps and Blackest Night, proving that formula is successful. Hopefully he's keeping his cards close to the vest so Didio isn't too aware of his overall plan.

I love the idea that maybe one day soon the Legion will push Superboy out of this title. I would expect, of course, the reason would be because Superboy would suddenly star in his own Superboy #1, so DC could have two Superboy launches in two years (you know those guys are space-hookers to the extreme ). And if Superboy somehow can become a marketing success again, any chance for the Legion to share in that would be welcome.

I'm actually pretty excited about this, and don't mind taking things slowly with more character-oriented stories for the time being. It will at least get us away from the "great menace on the horizon" stories. So I'm excited about Wildfire/Dawny and Brek/Dirk stories to come. In the meantime, the Legionnaires in the 21st Century having their back-ups eventually tying in to Superboy (and possibly Mon-El) seems intriguing to me too.

PS - I think Blockade Boy is right about Krypto. If Superboy or the Legion OR COMICS IN GENERAL are to survive, there needs to be things for the younger kids too. Especially in the Superman-related titles above all others. So Krypto is either a welcome bit of nostalgia or a necessary evil depending on the viewpoint.

Krypto is one of those bipolar concepts -- people have no in between. I don't mind the idea of a superpowered dog. There are lots of really good dogs in the real world. I've never owned one (mine are always annoying and misbehaved) but I know they exist. The thing that always bothered me most about Krypto is that he looks too distinctive. He's an all-white dog with vaguely beagle/hound/dalmatian features. That's not a particularly common-looking breed these days (if it ever was). So there's no chance he could maintain a secret identity. Which is fine with me.

As for the Legion...well, it's pretty cool that Tellus is such a big player, even if no new reader has yet learned enough about him to distinguish him from a Swamp Thing. And say what you like about Starman, this is more panels and more characterization than he really ever had before. I'm glad that Johns isn't referring to his condition as "schizophrenia" anymore, though. Just mental illness is fine. And we see both the amusing and more poignant aspects of that illness in this issue, so that makes me feel less sensitive about this portrayal of the character.