Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes ADVENTURE COMICS #1 (#504) SPOILERS!

I'm from Michigan and we had a huge 'swampy' area behind our farm, and talk about the mosquitoes!

We called it a marsh, though.

What's the difference between a marsh and a swamp, anyway?

When I hear the word swamp, I think of a sub-tropical setting like Florida, myself; I also picture dangerous animals and the unseen presense of tropical diseases.

To me a marsh is a place in a more temperate setting with no dangerous critters or exotic diseases. Then again, here in Canada (in Ottawa, yet) people did die from Dengue Fever while building canals in a relatively temperate setting (cold wintertimes notwithstanding), so maybe the notions of "swemp" and "marsh" are, indeed, just a matter of regional semantics.

Anybody out there know for sure?

Swamps have trees, marshes do not.

Well with the Titans books in the toilet, at least I can look forward to the Legion even though they won't get many pages.

Nice to see Starman searching for Nura.

Poor Nura captured again....she was captured in the JLA/JSA crossover too. You would think she would know when she was about to be captured! Hehe

doncha luv-it when we get all educational!

Children don't need school: they need more Legion. Or Legion World at any rate.

Yeah, lots of swamps/marshes/lagoons/wetlands down here in the Midwest--especially BECAUSE the land is often so flat, the water moves very slowly. Chicago, my home, was described as a "swamp" prior to its settlement, with abundant flora including a stinky wild onion the natives called "chicagou." So there ya go. More edu-macation. Some would argue it's still a swamp, and still smells bad. I've gotten used to it.

I'm a little more accepting with the methane/swamp connection. But, I'm still saying this issue lacked a lot for a first issue.

What a delight to be able to go to the comic book store and get a comic book that I can anticipate every month. And I do eagerly anticipate the next chapter in this story. I'd be fooling myself if I didn't admit that much of my anticipation is because I get to see Element Lad again. And he's a chemistry teacher, not a philosophy or Sunday School teacher, whew!

Seeing the other legionnaires was a treat, too. I wonder if I should take Starboy's conversation with Bird Boy to mean that Quislet is in the past. Plus, I wonder if we've already seen Chameleon Boy--maybe hew was the one guiding Conner to Chemistry class, or in the Despero panel.

If I wanted to complain about anything, which is required for serious message board posts, I'd express my bother that the only black legionnaire wasn't even visible on the splash page--"Look out villains, here come a bunch of white kids!" I hope the Legion rookie has some ethnicity, or is just short or skinny or something other than "of a different hair style/color."

Holy-! Polar Boy is BLONDE?!

pencil sharpener

I can't imagine Desparo saying, "Of course, Mr. Edge."

Sounds a lot more like Cham, to me.

as a legion fan, i'm REALLY pissed off. in the end, we only got 4 mere pages of story! when i saw it i couldn't believe it... sigh.
i understand how johns wanted to introduce the legion to potential new readers, but... did he really have to use three of those little eight pages of story?
besides, i don't think that splash page was that memorable to justify the waste of space: clayton henry is a skilled artist but still average, and his faces look all the same (compare colossal boy's and brainiac 5's, they're identical!).
i repeat, as a legion fan i really felt cheated. i don't care if the superboy story was good, 'cause if it wasn't for the legion i wouldn't even thought to buy this book: i'm really cold about the kon-el character and i hated johns' teen titans book...

a tiny note about the cover: why did the use shooter's legion logo? i think it could be confusing...

another thing. it's pretty clear now that the next big storyline involving the legion will be set in 21st century. i can understand the sheer editorial logic behind that move: to introduce readers of common DCU titles to the legion of super-heroes. nonetheless, i don't think it's a very good idea: that way, i'm afraid the legion will look like just another super-team. instead, i think it would be way better for present-day DCU heroes to travel to the future and let readers see the 31st century through their eyes. batman or the justice league need to go to the future and awe in front of it: i think that would be a more honest and effective publicity for the legion. anyway, the story's just starting so who knows how it will develop!

i think what he's doing is building up legion interest from the ground up. It maybe too little for us Experienced readers but for those who weren't into the legion this is a bite size snack they'll become hungry for and then it will be a full sized meal that they look forward too.

That may be the "plan," but if they don't start plotting things out better and tightening up the stories instead of throwing ideas against the wall to see what sticks, they're going to lose far more than they can gain.

not much "meat" in a first issue.
Johns is clearly building interest in LSHn in baby steps.
i liked the art just fine. Clayton does a nice future gloss, and attractive characters. not many comic artists do individual faces.
i'm glad they did a 2 page spread to introduce characters to new readers. can you imagine how it would have felt to not have that? the Night Girl/Shadow Lass mix up did bother me, but it often happens in legion books. too many of'em. it also bothers me ALOT that Timber Wolf's power blurb says "claws". ugh. i thought with this retroboot version they'd stop trying to Wolverine him.
bonus points for keeping the rocket ship shaped HQ that waid/kitson re-intro-ed.
can't help but want answers to many continuity questions...
do Garth/Imra have the twins?
are Ayla and Vi gay?
why does Chameleon Girl have improved power levels. i liked her better before when "all Durlans are not the same".
i think Duplicate Damsel is a dumb name. how about Multi-Girl?

I liked the Conner stuff a lot more than I thought I would. Not a fan of Conner really.


The Legion stuff was way too short of course but I did like what I saw in the teaser images. I liked Henry's artwork, except for the two page spread.

Lots of interesting subplots going on with the Legion in the 21st century now and since I love that kind of story I'm game to see it play out.


As for what DC is doing right now...IMO they definitely are rebuilding it from the ground up...more importantly, I don't really think they are trying to cater to Legion fans particularly, or at least not the diehards.


They're trying to build the audience from some of the other successful audiences they have...

A#1. Anything Johns writes.

B#1. The Titans base.

C#1. The Superman base.

#2. The Green Lantern base.

At least based on the books the Legion is appearing in now.


I think they pretty much realize that unless they pull new readers in the title is not going to be in publication as a regular title any longer...


Actually it already isn't.

Because they already know what it will do..

Launch at somewhere between 50-60k, be struggling to stay above 30k after a year, be down in the mid 20's and dropping and on life support after 3-4 years. Then poof, another relaunch or reboot. And it's not really because of the writing either. The book has had good writing and still sold quite poorly.


The Legion doesn't sell @25 k because it keeps getting rebooted, it keeps getting rebooted because it sells at @25k. Unless they expand their audience that isn't going to change any time soon.


As for the 21st century stuff...

I'm just thinking there's been stuff being teased with Brainiac 5 in Booster Gold for a few years now, since well before Jurgens was writing the title and Johns was still the main writer. That stuff is still being hinted at and I'm wondering if that is going to eventually tie in to the rest of the Legion in the 21st century.


Ditto the stuff with Dream Girl which goes all the way back to the LS arc. Even later on additions like Tellus and Cham etc.


And was that Mon-El shown with Conner in the teaser page at the end?


And I'm wondering if the Legion being in the 21st century has something to do with New Krypton as well...expecially considering Didio made some comments a while back about New Krypton rising to become an interstellar power....wouldn't be the first time the Legion has been involved in a war between Krypton(or a surviving variation of it) and Earth.

One other thing...reading this issue didn't exactly feel like reading an Adventure Legion story...but the tone and format are very similar to the Superboy series of the early 70's.

You get the simple, almost homey Superboy story at the beginning and then all the futuristic Legion stuff in the backup. It's exactly like that old Superboy series....except no one doing this title has Cockrum's genius for redesigning costumes(and pretty much ushering in an entirely new era of comics at both companies with them).

Dave Cockrum was a huge part of the reason the Legion made it out of backup status back then...

I'm not sure how you arrived at the conclusion really...since there have been teenagers as part of the roster of adult Legions. Magnetic Kid was added to the Levitz Legion and even the 5YG had characters like Kono...And I'm not sold that the current Johns Legion is supposed to be particularly old either.

While it's been years since the Crisis for Superman, it's only been a few months since the Criis for this version of the Legion. As mentioned in the LS and the Action arc.

In the LS they said it had been 6 months since the Crisis and at the beginning of the Action of arc they said it had been a few months since the Lightning Saga.

I figure this version of the Legion the oldest members are probably 25-28 or so or about the same age as the oldest members of the Teen Titans.

If tying a concept to every other concept including the "popular" ones was a better way to get readers in the long-haul then there would be several series (JLA, Titans, etc.) pushing higher numbers than they actually do.

In fact, if this was the policy that DC was actively pursuing for the Legion or any book/series for that matter than they'd all be named BATMAN AND THE ______!

This is all just a bunch of filler crap that the editors are letting their hot writers of the day, Johns and Robinson, indulge themselves in until the next someone stumbles upon the next big thing.

Any Comic Book series that really matters and that builds a big and lasting audience need great writing and great (or at least interesting stylistic) art to reach word-of-mouth and casual buyers. Filler issues and confusing continuity (even for the Fans of a series) isn't going to help anyone especially the Legion.

A new Batman and the Legion of Super-Heroes would be kind cool.

Dick Grayson is Titan and Legion age.
Night Girl, Shady, T Wolf, Tinya and Cham would fit in easily with just a little redesigning, as would Tellus, Starman, ELad and Dreamy.

Maybe they could call it 'Batman and the LSH Espionage Squad'.

I agree with this.

More...I think they approach they are taking, and what Johns does typically to great success, is look at what worked for the Legion when it was successful and a flagship of the DC Universe. They are looking at it from a comics audience standpoint rather than a Legion fan standpoint.


The biggest problems with all the fixes since it was broken, aside from DC editorial policy which is the main culprit of course, is that they've had these huge Legion fans writing the book that kept getting their Legion fandom in the way of their writing instincts.


It's been...

Look, Mon-El is Superboy now and a focus of the book, think of all the years we've wanted to see this.

Look, Element Lad is gay(without actually being written as being gay) think of how long this has been wondered about.

That's what they did in the 5YG.


Look, it's the Legion from the very beginning before Superboy was a member that we always wanted to see more of.

That's what they did in the reboot.

Look, it's the Legion starting in progress(just like the original), only still before Superboy joined with that mysterious unchronicled early era still intact, and look, here's that Supergirl era we never got see before.


That's what they did in the 3boot.


Always with just enough needless tweaks to say it's new...while simulataneously acting as if LL, SG and CB saving RJ Brande is some hallowed Legion element and the foundation of it all...instead of the uneventful retcon/untold tale written a decade into the Legion's existence that it actually was.

Not an important element to what made the Legion work, in any era, and neither were any of those other unexplored eras and unanswered questions they've tried to focus on in the reboots. Matter of fact, those eras being unexplored and those questions being unanswered were part of the Legion's mystique. I got excited about them as any Legion fan would...but it's not what made the series go, ever.


That's my take on what they've tried to do anyway...they were given the task of launching a Supermanless Legion(not their fault) and to compensate they tried to launch or build the book around things that were important in Legion circles, and it just didn't do anything to capture the casual fan.


Johns not only doesn't have that handicap with Superman, he is definitely not a Legion fan of the same order as TMK or Mark Waid, and I think his sense of what makes it appeal to the casual fan is the best of any writer to touch the book in decades...he's good at doing that with all characters and teams, it's his strenght as a writer(and he obviously has strengths as a writer).


I think his approach is: colorful characters from the future, Superman(boy), space, time travel, mystique.


And every truly successful commercial era of the Legion has featured those things in abundance.


I'm enjoying it and I'm interested. If this Legion fails it won't be for the same reasons as all the other reboots have.

Don't know if its been mentioned, haven't read the entire thread, but am I the only one thinking that the Valentine monster in the lake is Tellus from the backup?

It was okay. Geoff sex up a Lex Luthor for Conner in Valentine, with Tellus saying that valentine would be his greatest enemy. He gave us the "lies to superman" thing. But i don't get anything evil off it, more of a wanting to understand the other parent, his "second father".

Didn't catch the girl on the bridges name, but is this Conner's Lana Lang?

Geoff packed a lot in, no doubt. But the Legion artist was really good, a better fit than Manapul I thought. At one point Manapul's art made superboy look like he was drawn by John Romita Jr. and I never really cared for his art.

Solid c+ on the Superboy stuff.

Solid B- on the legion.

And with what happened with 50, there was really no excuse for the mixup on the boxes for night girl and shadow lass.

by the way, swamps around my home are full of methane gas. Its one of the "swamp gases" that scientists us to explain wierd lights in the swamp at night.

Of course. Comics companies try this all the time to no success. Just slapping them together mindlessly doesn't usually payoff.

That said, the Legion hasn't ever been quite like any other comic property in it's appeal. And it was very much a part of the Superman family at it's peak. The most successful part of the Superman family outside of Superman.

What is obvious to me is that a team a thousand years in the future fighting crime is a tough sell....even if it's got great writing and art.

The Legion has had great writing and art...that really hasn't been the problem. If anything the roster of writers and artists in the past 20 years is more impressive than the roster of the original Legion.


They do that all the time, but throwing Batman a thousand years in the future doesn't really do much for Batman and what he's about. His arena is crime, not space and science fiction.

To me it's if it makes any sense or not. It makes sense to tie Green Lantern to the Legion, it doesn't make sense for them not to have any connection since they occupy the same Universe.


I guess it just depends on if you're a fan of those writers or not. I don't consider either of them to be hacks. I consider Johns to have a full plate and Robinson to be submerged in the Superman continuity right now, but it's not like Robinson doesn't give a damn about Mon-El. He's pretty much the major character his writing career revolves around right now.



And the Legion has had those things in abundance over the past 2 decades, and hasn't been as successful as it was in the previous two decades when it really didn't have those things in abundance.

I'm as pissed about having to read 60 pages of Conner to get 5 pages of Legion as you are...but I don't think any of what they are setting up is confusing(at least not when compared to the continuity after the Crisis) and I'm definitely interested in it.

I think Johns has a clear track record of setting things up years in advance and I think he is a DC fan to the absolute core that generally puts his heart into his work. I see absolutely nothing in his history to indicate he doesn't take this approach or that he is just haphazardly throwing stuff together.


I think how this all came about is Brad Meltzler brought this Legion back on a lark and DC saw exactly what potential it had and then it became Johns' baby...and what we see is Johns working around some of the stuff set up by Meltzler in the LS arc, the Superman litigation, and a ground up rebuild designed to attract new readers.


I mean, there's no threat we as a fanbase can make to DC...they've already said goodbye in many ways. I mean what is there to do? Not buy the Legion comic?

There isn't one.