Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes 15 years later - Rereading the Reboot...

So: Legion Worlds.

Cool! Good concept, great execution, mostly good art and a lot of interesting stories and back-stories in extra-sized books that broadened the Reboot universe. It's that kind of stories that made up Legion Lore and that are currently missing in the Retroboot to make into a real experience.

I thought it was a great idea to get another penciller for every issue. Thus, each world did have its own flaire, its own identity. I especially liked Paul Rivoche in #3, the Braal issue.

#1 did a good job introducing new readers to the Legion universe. Mon-El was the feature character, but other Legionnaires kept popping up and the summary of "previously on Legion" was certainly a good jump-on point. The stories were mostly good, I liked Aylas return to Winath and Tinya escape to Rimbor most, though the issue on Steeple with Val and Ferro Lad also had a certain appeal.

All in all, I really enjoyed this mini again, especially due to the way it managed to use the Legion universe to its fullest, drawing a canvas of distant worlds and individual tragedies that made me care.

Now it's the regular series... and then, we're through with the Reboot reread!

I haven't read Legion Worlds since it was published, and I often think of it as an afterthought: something that marked time before the start of the new series.

Your post, however, reminded me that LW featured some very good stories. In addition, it expanded the Legion's universe (though few of those ideas were followed upon in the regular series) and took some compelling chances. Apparition's year-long pregnancy, for example, led to a spirited debate on the DC message board about who the father could be.

Today, I think of LW as a lot of wasted opportunities--particularly regarding said pregnancy and Jo's fatherhood. As stand-alone stories, however, they were quite good insofar as they showcased DnA's strengths as writers (though to a much lesser extent than Legion Lost did): developing individual characters and relationships among small groups of characters.

I especially liked how what the Legionnaires did after they disbanded reflected their personalities.

Kinetix joining the SPs made sense, since as early as her origin story she kept harping on about using her powers to help people and "be more than just a useless kid".

XS traveling around? Made sense too.

Karate Kid and Ferro seeking inner peace on Steeple? Ditto.

Cos, Vi, Invisible Kid, Chuck (who was always the Legion's biggest fan), Sensor and Triad staying with the Legion underground? Also made sense, these were among the most dedicated Legionnaires.

M'Onel becoming the only Legionnaire to remain officially active? We all know he'd rather explore space on his own, but it did make sense that he'd have a strong sense of duty.

I especially liked issue 4, the one on Xanthu. Great writing all throughout. And they made it exciting and poignant, rather than depressing.

Legion ##1-8

This was still great entertainment. Ras Al Ghul as a villain certainly was a surprise (well, I remembered that much, but it was a surprise the first time around), but probably not the best choice for the Legion franchise. I found the basic Hypertaxis idea to be a little too "far out". The terrorforms being midwives to evolution, putting people into tiny ball cocoons to save them, and this is all supposed to be the natural cause of things? Come on... that's a little bit too much.

The return of the Legion, their reuinification with the rest of the team, Legion World, the interludes in Progeny space and on Xanthu, the lurking danger of Robotica already established in Legion Worlds, all those things that expanded the horizon of the reboot universe I liked. The artwork got even better, though it took Coipiel only four issues to make way for a guest artist in #5 (again in #9!). That's a little sad.

As for the characters, most of them had their moments with Kid Quantum and Mon-El being the ones who probably excelled the most. I liked the fact that that not every team member was back in the fold within the first eight issues, too: Tinya, Star Boy, XS, Karate Kid and Ferro were still lost or on their way to Earth. That's a realistic approach I very much support.

All in all, the first storyline of the regular Legion book was okay, though characterisation was better than the overall story, which to me was too far-fetched.

Legion ##9-14

The Robotica Threat - and Computo was behind it. Well, that one was quite interesting, would it not have been the third death threat to Earth in a row after Blight and Hypertaxis. DnA planted Robotica early on (Legion Worlds #1), but it probably would not have hurt if they would have given the Legion a rest between those two invasions...

What I rather liked were the few slower moments, like the Tinya issue (#9) or the election (Kid Quantum, to Aylas displeasure). After such a long time, we finally got an overview who exactly was a member in #10: 20 people voted forthe leader, including Chuck Taine, excluding Tinya, Ferro and Karate Kid. Don't know why those latter two did not get rescued when XS and Star Boy were, but well. After that, Tinya rejoined, Umbra left, and Timber Wolf joined so we had 20 members plus Chuck. Still a large team after the deaths of Garth, Jan and Monstress.

Anyway, with the Robotica problem solved, Coipiel obviously left the book. I did not remember that, but he already missed #5, #9, #13 and large parts of #10. In my imagination, he was there for all of the DnA run, but that seems to be an incorrect memory. I have hardly any memory what happened after Robotica (Darkseid came up in the end...) - so I'm interested to see how this run turns out. Only about 20 issues to go!

Actually, DnA planted Robotica even earlier than that - their very first issue, right before the Blight story.

Your reviews inspired me to re-read Legion # 1-8, CK. I agree: they were entertaining, particularly from # 5 on.

The first four issues have so much happening that I felt a bit overwhelmed; also, the storyline moved quickly up to this point but didn't quite pull me into it. While the plot is more than competent, there weren't many scenes of emotional significance until # 5. This lack of emotional impact is truly a letdown as, given the circumstances of the lost Legionnaires' return, the pages should have been dripping with emotion.

(Two exceptions and one particular letdown: Triad's rescue of Shikari from the government lab was a triumphant moment, and Imra hugging Ayla after the latter had just learned of her brother's death was touching. On the other hand, M'Onel being shot by Ra's al Ghul came off as perfunctory. Since Mon is used to being invulnerable, it would be understandable if he had showed fear in the face of imminent death--from a lead bullet, no less! If DnA had managed to convey Mon's sense of powerlessness, we could have felt for him. But on re-reading these scenes, I felt nothing.)

DnA must have had a mandate to hit the ground running, as they kept the formerly lost Legionnaires busy during the first four issues. The heroes go from arriving on earth to saving President McCauley from Corvan IV terrorist to an attempt on their lives to fighting the Oversight Watch to discovering the truth about McCauley to being rescued by the Bouncing Boy to being introduced to Legion World. This is a lot to take in without a breather.

M'Onel, too, is kept busy by the villains so he doesn't suspect what is really happening. I couldn't help but view that as a metaphor for us fans: Keeping the Legionnaires moving masked the fact that there wasn't much story here. There was a plot, yes, and a lot of stuff happening, but none of it seemed to carry much weight. It's a pity that DnA didn't observe the old adage about writing: less is more.

On the other hand, the highlight for me was # 5, where four Legionnaires visit Kwai space and first encounter the hatemongering group Credo. The issue stands out because of the very real emotions Saturn Girl feels toward the displaced Progeny and how those emotions cloud her judgment toward them. This is as real as the Legionnaires get, and her transformation in the end (after encountering a progeny child) was well handled. Invisible Kid is also used effectively as the one who tries to force Imra to see things rationally.

As for hypertaxis, I applaud DnA for trying to include some real science fiction in Legion stories. Most of what passes for sci fi in the Legion are merely super-hero stories set in the future (nothing wrong with that). This arc made me think of the science fiction in early Legion stories by Edmond Hamilton.

However, DnA were not as well versed in sci fi as Hamilton, and parts of story line came off as forced and unclear. After having just re-read the story, I'm still not sure how Legion World moving into earth's orbit defeated Ra's al Ghul's plan to force human evolution. I could read it again, but I always feel that the writers haven't done a good enough job if I'm left scratching my head.

All in all, a good story arc but not great.

It counterbalanced the Moon - the "hypertaxian" threat was the Moon being knocked out of orbit, and the gravity of Legion World stabilised matters. That's also why Brainiac 5 was moaning at the end that they can't move LW any more - if they did, the Moon would start "falling" again.

For me, Hypertaxis/Terrorforms was where DnA really started to run off the rails. I don't mind somewhat loose science in my science fiction, but that whole idea just stretched credibility too far. Plus in the context of the reboot Legion, it didn't make much sense... are we really supposed to believe that life on Earth was in more danger of mass extinction then than when, for example, rampaging Daxamites were running around killing everything in sight? Or any of eight billion incidents in the twentieth century when Earth was in danger?

I also hated the reveal of Mr. Venge as Computo, which I thought ruined one of the most potentially interesting new villains in years.

Uh... the Moon was ripping the planet to bits (and was about to shatter and impact until the Terrorforms buffered it). So... yeah. Even Final Night had more of a margin for error, and the WT Daxamites never threatened to repeat The Trom Manouvre on Earth - what they did was orders of magnitude lesser.

The White Triangle were certainly in the process of exterminating life on Earth. They were intentionally doing it slower than they did with Trom. So, at what point would the magic evolution fairies have appeared to save everyone? Or do you circumvent them if you cause mass extinction slowly enough?

And it's a little strange that these things seem to be specific to Earth, and don't appear on Trom or any of the other numerous planets that got blown up every couple of months in the rebootverse.

Thanks for the clarification.

This is a good point, although I think it shows just how unclear DnA were in their explanations and how they overreached themselves.

As I understood it, the Terrorforms were supposed to serve as "midwives," helping to usher humanity into its next stage of evolution. If human beings are extinct, no evolution occurs and so the Terrorforms are not activated.

At least that's my take on it.

Here's my take on # 9-14:

Legion # 9 is one of my least favorite DnA issues. It starts off with a humorous Jetsons riff, then becomes a silly story about Timber Wolf trying to babysit the ultra Cub. Silly but not funny. Far from being the fierce, animalistic hero he's supposed to be, TW ends up looking like an inept boob. Also, his "Think fast!" catchphrase gets old very quickly.

Any humor in the story is also undercut by the horrific reveal of the Vyrgan used to pilot the footstep drive. Of course, we already knew that's how the footstep drives were powered, so it's not that big of a reveal. But the grotesque sight of the Carggite/Vyrgan and mercy killing are at odds with the rest of the story. Are DnA trying to tell a comedy or a tragedy or both? The story just doesn't work.

Then comes the Robotica arc (# 10-14), which was handled much better, I thought, than the Ra's al Ghul story. At least it's more compact and goes straight from beginning to middle to end without many digressions or extraneous ideas. Most issues propel the story forward--with the exception of # 13, which exists mostly so Computo can give a lengthy exposition for his actions.

In the end, though, the Robotica arc amounts to a re-telling of the tried and true science fiction premise of machines being oppressed by humans. DnA offer little new here.

I was somewhat touched, however, by Computo's desire for Brainy to recognize him as his offspring, and by Brainy's eventual decision to do so and to aid Computo in achieving evolution. Brainy takes a huge gamble here, though. He assumes that if Computo evolves into a higher lifeform, he'll put aside his "petty" bitterness and hatred (which, in fact, is what happens). However, if history is any indication, human beings do not put aside their hostility toward others as they "evolve." They just find more complicated rationales to justify aggression. There's no reason to assume that machines would be any different.

Another quibble I have with the story is that the introduction of Warworld gives us one more planetary body to keep track of. We already have Legion World, the Terrorforms, hypertaxis, and Robotica. The Legionnaires themselves seem dwarfed by objects that are taking over their book.

The ending of the story is a copout. Sharn Nux, revealing herself to be an assassin, tries to kill the evolved Computo, and both get sucked into a void. This is a typical comic-booky way of ending a story without really ending it. It leaves the door open for either villain to return--an approach that was tiresome twenty years ago.

In spite of the Legionnaires being dwarfed in their own comic, DnA do provide us with some important character moments. I liked the surprise of Jazmin becoming leader and Ayla and Imra's reactions to same. Tinya returns and thinks Jo is cheating on her in a well-handled scene. Lyle enjoys showing up the oh-so-superior Sharn Nux.

Though not perfect, the Robotica storyline showed that DnA could still spin a good yarn.

I agree about #9. While I give them credit for trying to do a comedy issue, it really just didn't work at all.

Hmm. I'd have to reread them, but I recall the first 6-8 or so issues being such an awesome rollercoaster ride of action and cliffhanger endings... I remember it being probably the last time I was really excited while reading the postboot.

And Coipel's art certainly didn't hurt either. He really came into his own by this point.

Coipel is hit or miss with me. I like his long shots of planets and space, but some of his faces and figures take getting used to. Some have said that he had a manga influence, but, to me, the artwork just looks cartoony in places and stiff and awkward in others.

They were pretty exciting as they were coming out, not in the least becasue of the feeling that DnA were "fixing" the problems with the reboot, but I think HWW is right that, in retrospect, there's a lot more flash than real substance.

Coipel definitely was working on finding his groove when he was on the Legion.

Even more flash than substance was more appealing after the several years of absolutely nothing of any real interest happening. I have not reread this version lately, but I remember loving DnA's run because it gave a feel that things were actually happening again.

I wasn't reading when Legion during DNA's run but I have gotten it all in back issues. I just felt that they did a great job with smaller groups of Legionnaires, but when they reunited the Lost Legionnaires with the rest of the team the book seemed to flounder. I think the cast ended up being too big for DNA.

I enjoyed their run well enough (before Foundations, I thought that was awful). However, I don't like the Terrarformers or the Hyperaxis idea. I thought that that concept derailed the first few issues where we see the new UP status quo through the Legionnaires eyes which I found interesting and exciting, but the ending was weak and not very strong motivation wise. And I agree with many on the board who think Ra's was a poor villain for the Legion.

Robitica arc was ok, it was written very solidly and had it's nice moments, but ended up being so utterly predictable that I really don't ever have the desire to reread it unless I'm rereading their entire run. And having reread the DNA issues I have (most of Blight, Legion Lost, etc) I get to Robitica real burnt out by the imminent threat to Earth scenario. So in the end Robitica actually gets a 'meh' to 'thumbs down' from me for being nothing that I haven't seen before.

As for issue #9, I think DNA needed one more plot point in it. "Think Fast" does get old and the humor scenes were stretched out way too long. If they had cut those pages down and instead showed us what other Legionnaires were doing or something else I think it would have been a much stronger issue, as it is it is a comedy issue where the joke went on too long and not worth much reread. However, I did like the reveal at the end in that I don't mind there being some strong emotional stuff in a mostly humorous issue. However, I do feel the pacing of the issue was a bit off and even the reveal at the end took too long.

Still, of the recent Legion stuff I own their run is one that I tend to reread most often and is some of the best (minus the very beginning of the reboot which I think was pretty good).

That sums up my assessment, as well.

One thing I credit DnA with is taking chances. Even though some of their chances were bound to be unpopular (Garth's death, Jan becoming Progenitor), they at least tried to take the Legion (pun not intended) where no one had gone before. However, this approach seemed to work best with a smaller team of characters.

Legion ##15-23

After Robotica, the Legion had to fight two "smaller" menaces, which was a definitely necessary change of pace. Timber Wolf got introduced into the team and his first fight was against the Fatal Five, after that Ras al Ghul escaped and helped to save Sneckie. Two decent stories, with average artwork by fill-in artists. The way DnA tried to make Sneckie into a less annoying character was noticed, I really thought her new look was less cheesy. Her change of appearance was well sewn into the next big storyline "Dreamcrime", another five-parter which was okay. I just don't like the constant portrayal of mental warfare, that happened too often during the Reboot. I liked the way Karate Kid and Ferro Lad were brought back to the fold during the storyline - reminded me a little bit of good old "Earthwar" - but apart from that, I was glad that the story was over, though it certainly was not that bad.

I was a little sad to see Coipile go. Certainly he did not really manage to keep up with a monthly book, but his artwork was special. Chris Batistas was not. It looked okay, reminding me a little bit of Moders stuff, but no longer special, especially lacking the certain "darker" style Coipiel brought to the book.

As for the team, with Timber Wolf and Dream Girl joining, the group got larger and larger, in the end reaching "legion" numbers like in Levitzs days. That I really liked, even though we already saw with Dreamcrime that it's easier to focus on a smaller group of members.

My reaction to the Timber Wolf story is that it's good, but should have been a one-shot. Just everything about that story screams 'this should be a one shot' so I think it suffers from being stretched into two issues.

Also this is another example of most of my exposure of the Fatal Five being when they are less than formidable. I hear so much about how the original Fatal Five are the Legion's deadliest villains, but I haven't seen in their post-ZH appearances (of course I might have missed some of their appearances as I do not own the entire reboot). There is an "oh crap" moment when the FF show up, but they are more like typical one shot villains, all fury and sound signifying nothing (is that the quote?).

As for the Ra's Al Ghul two parter, man when I got to this I was still sick of him from the opening of the book. Downside to reading a book in one sitting is that sometimes having many many months between one's last appearance helps make it less annoying when they pop up again. Not a bad story as I recall, paced well, decent twists and moments, nice move on Sneckie (but she is still a great example of what is wrong with the reboot) but still wished it hadn't been Ra's.

Legion ##24-33

DnAs final issues - and it shows. They seemed to run out of ideas. This was especially obvious during the Darkseid story, which started as a mediocre retelling of Great Darkness and ended as annoying time travel gibberish. To throw in Superboy and TWO Darkseids seems like a desperate marketing ploy to me - as history shows, it failed, and ten issues later, the reboot was over.

This was probably DnAs worst storyline, whereas I could enjoy the one-parters with Umbra (drawn by Lightle) and Chuck/Gear (drawn by Giffen) and the finale picking up the loose threads with the Credo story. The latter one would have been a decent end to the reboot. Considering how they permaturely ended Shooters run on the Threeboot years later, one has to wonder why they dragged on the Reboot with the last four issues by Champagne and Simone. Was there a draft among DC writers asking, "hey, anyone got some thow-away Legion story to tell"?

As for the art, Batista did a solid job, but his work lacked something special. It really showed when DnA lost Coipiel. All the more enjoyable were the guest stints by Lightle and Giffen - what a pleasurable exception that guest artists are NOT some no-name newcomers...

So it took me some time to end my Reboot reread, but I'm, getting close now - it's the least I can do after this whole thread went so long...