Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Lightning Saga Legion in Action!

To me it just depends on how they are combined. If they are merged into one...that's usually something that no one likes, but there are different ways of getting the best of all of them, ways you can do it without merging, and Johns so far has been unsurpassed at pulling this sort of thing off....

Put it this way...he's been better at doing it than anyone else at DC...including Marv Wolfman and the original Crisis.

I think Johns is brilliant in a variety of ways...but I do agree his payoffs seldom live up to his setups...but that's actually because his setups are fantastic.


But even if you don't think Johns is particularly clever or inventive...one thing cannot be denied and is easily proved...and that's that he has about a thousand times more common sense than anyone that has done this sort of thing at DC before.


In the crisis, DC came up with the explanation for the way things would be, how it all worked...and they fit everything to that explanation, the explantion was more important than the end result, even though that explanation was badly and superficially thought out...they made the books, the characters, fit the explanation...and in many cases, the books and characters were the worse for it.


Johns OTOH...he figures out what he wants, what elements he wants...and then he makes the explantion to fit what he wants...it's a much smarter way of doing it, because people are ten times more likely to accept an explantion they don't like, than they are a character change or book change they don't like.

The end result is more important to Johns than the explantion...and because of that IMO, his explanations actually make more sense. Because it's a hell of a lot easier to change the explantion than it is 25-40 years of history.

Me? The inconsistencies of that Pocket Universe story drove me up the wall originally...but ultimately it was becuase I didn't like that Legion...now? All those inconsistencies are still more or less there, but since I like this Legion more...it doesn't bother me near as much.

Yes I to am for Geoff Johns Restoring The Legion and what lost history of the original he can, as it is far better than scrapping everything and Rebooting as I have had about enough of that over the last twenty years.

And BTW, for you hardcore continuity buffs...would you believe the seeds of this current L3W World Tale were possibly sown by none other than Jim Shooter way back in the early part of the SLOSH title? By possibly I mean..I don't know for certain this is where Johns got the idea from...but it does seem to fit rather well.

For all you guys that think Shooter might not be on board with what Johns is doing...Johns actually might be picking up from where a 30 year old loose string from Jim Shooter left off.


Ladies and Gents I give you SLOSH #223 page 5 by Jim Shooter and Mike Grell:





Based on that...Superboy, Karate Kid, Sun Boy, Chameleon Boy and Saturn Girl needed to be eliminated for the Time Trapper to rule the Universe...and that litle comment makes everything that has come since...make sense.

Including Sunboy's sad end, and Karate Kid's frequent deaths.


I don't know if that's where Johns got the idea from for tying all the continuital differences and various Legions into a broader continuity using the Time Trappers determination to remove Superboy from their history...but those that think Shooter might be offended by the idea...well, he had an idea pretty similar to it 30 years ago.

One fringe benefit of what Johns is doing...is editorial references to the Pre Crisis Legion are now an option...my back issue collection whole heartedly thanks Geoff Johns for this.


You know...in 1984, Adventure Comics #247 was the most valuable comic of the Silver Age...more than any of the Marvels, and more than Barry Allen...and erasing all that continuity killed the value of those backissues. They were no longer referenced, they were no longer relevant...they have not gone up in value at a similar rate to the other key Silver Age titles, in fact I think Adventure Comics #247 is worth basically what it was worth in 1985 at the time of the Crisis...perhaps now they will again hold pace with the other Keystone Silver Age titles...by all means Geoff(or Editor)...feel free to reference all those old Legion titles

I think this is the first alternate Legion story way back in Superboy #117.



And check out this picture.

[/qb][/QUOTE]One fringe benefit of what Johns is doing...is editorial references to the Pre Crisis Legion are now an option...my back issue collection whole heartedly thanks Geoff Johns for this.


You know...in 1984, Adventure Comics #247 was the most valuable comic of the Silver Age...more than any of the Marvels, and more than Barry Allen...and erasing all that continuity killed the value of those backissues. They were no longer referenced, they were no longer relevant...they have not gone up in value at a similar rate to the other key Silver Age titles, in fact I think Adventure Comics #247 is worth basically what it was worth in 1985 at the time of the Crisis...perhaps now they will again hold pace with the other Keystone Silver Age titles...by all means Geoff(or Editor)...feel free to reference all those old Legion titles[/QB][/QUOTE]

Well I guess there was one perk in DC destroying The Legion's Legacy, I bought a good Adventure Comics #247 over two year ago off of ebay for a little over $300.00,I also got #267 of Adventure and Action pretty cheap the 1st,2nd and 3rd issues with the Legion

That's a good point...I completed some of my collection during the discount era as well.


I feel pretty positive that if the Legion as it once was comes back in some form(if other versions are published more power to them as well), the Legion will once again become what IMO, it always was...the premiere comics Superteam. Before FF, before X-Men, JLA...before all just about but the JSA, and much more successful. Not just came before...and ushered in the Silver Age, but the one that the X-Men ripped off(along with our beloved Dave Cockrum) when it defined the Bronze Age.


...but IMO, it doesn't happen without Superman, anymore than any version of the JLA seems like the real one without some of the iconic characters.

He may not be the most poular Legionaire among the Legion faithful...but they aren't the problem, the rest of the comics audience, and their lack of interest is...and Superman is definitely the most recognizable. It's kinda like your mother holding your hand on your first day of school or something...he's the anchor and the known quantity...in the vast, futurisitic(and hopefully once again vital and growing), unknown and alien, Legion Universe.

Hey Superboy did you get the private message I sent you.

I eventually came to the same conclusion. Otherwise, it makes absolutely no sense that a powerless Lu with only one self would have been sent to protect KK in Countdown. It has to be because they were both dead already.

No I didn't. It's weird because there was some flashing text saying I had a PM at the top of the screen but when I clicked on it and checked my PMs there was nothing there. Resend it and maybe it'll go through now.

I sent you a new message close to the 1st one.

I show nothing. I think something has been going on with the board lately. Hopefully it'll show up later. I'll definitely respond when I get it.

Getting back on theme.... the most irritating thing in Action 864 was Batman not recognising the corpse of KK after interrogating him during the Lightning Saga. Gimme a break.

Looking forward, does anyone know if L3W being published weekly or monthly?

The issue was pretty much irritating to me because I couldn't get over how ridiculous Garth's hair looked. Gary Frank's designs were barely passable with him doing them and I'm afraid they're not looking good when anyone else does them (even Perez). It's starting to bug me that these designs are the "original" Legion.

This issue bugged me because Garth acted like he was some loser who never grew out of High School. The entire "I don't like cops, especailly human cops" bit irked me to no end. Since when has Garth not liked any group of people, and since when was HE xenophobic? I mean, this is the guy who lost his arm to the Moby Dick of space and still didn't lose it (it turns out he was acting all obsessed because he made a promise, awwww) and the guy who quit being a hero because he wanted to raise his kids.

Garth's a lot more level headed and mature than this issue made him out to be. also, what was with unbelievable jerk Batman, I thought he was supposed to go away with Infinate Crisis.

Furthermore,I wish Superman had reacted more to seeing 'Una's" and KK's corpse. He didn't seem to care at all that his two old friends are dead.

Also, since when is "dead is dead" considering how the guy saying it a) was resurrected himself, b) was saying it to a resurrected guy and c) was talking about a person who came back (although we don't know how or why) once before. I hope that was an allusion to the fact that the Legion will try to save Val (and Una?) but I really don't think so.

Oh, and the butterfly effect that Batman was whining about, BOGUS, I'm sorry, but if you are going to reintroduce time travel with the Leigon and especially Superman to the Legion mythos you kind of need to chuck out the entire "time is fragile and time travel can have dire consequences" bit, it simply doesn't work (I mean, the Legion probably wiped out civilization a thousand times over judging by their earlier adventures). Also, there's this big bit in Booster Gold about not being able to change history, events will happen regardless, yet Batman is worrying about a butterfly, and apparently Brainy agrees (rolls eyes).

Now, the bits with the Time Trapper was AWESOME and I thought set up Legion of 3 Worlds really well, but all the other bits in between really rubbed me the wrong way and made me nervous about Legion of 3 Worlds for the first time. I just don't think Geoff brought his A game to this at all.

that and the art was really bad (and a tatoo, a freakin' tatoo, ugh, how unoriginal)

Most of those comments register with me though I didn't react quite as strongly with the exception of Superman's reaction. I know he's been through a lot but the whole point of being Superman is he retains his "humanity." He doesn't go cold. These deaths should have affected him personally IMO.

Been offline for a few weeks and missed the fact that the first Action issue after the Legion run ALSO has Legion material in it... how vicious...

So do I have to stay with Action Comics, or was this just a self-contained oneshot I have to hunt down at the next comic convention?

Johns and Frank give us a nice little follow up to their recent Legion storyline in the Superman: New Krypton Special. Clark is in the barn after his father's funeral alone with his memories. He opens a trunk and pulls out a baseball cap that says "Happy Father's Day" in interlac. In a flashback scene Jonathan says, "A baseball cap from the future. I bet I'm the only one in the conty with one of these."

Shouldn't it have read "Happy Parents' Day"?