Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Lightning Saga Legion in Action!

It's at least six months between the two, from the Legion's point of view. The 'wands' mission was the Lightning Saga.

Age-wise, they are not significantly older than Lightning Saga, but art styles give the impression. Plus being on the lam makes one look less ideal than when one has more luxury to attend to how one looks.

They seem to be roughly where they were in the late 80s, roughly late 20s, maybe early 30s.

Yes, the same KK from Lightning Saga is now in Countdown. In the final pages of LS< the rest of the team is going back, but KK is left behind with a mysterious figure; Countdown picks up where that left off, and the mystery figure was Una.

The current-series Legion has no conenction with Superman/boy at all; that's part of why they werre so befuddled by Action #850. In the current series, time travel is essentially non-existent; only Supergirl and Booster Gold have been shown time-travelling. No Kal-El - in person or in memory.

Hypertime is cast aside, as I understand it.

There are basically 2 legions with conflicting futures at this point. The rest has yet to be examined.

That clears it up.

I've run through the rest of the thread quickly, but is there any consensus guess on if this is a post-Magic Wars group? Any guess as to why KK is in the 21st?

From everything that the writers have said this is the original Legion from the past. Their past changed sometime around the original Crisis on Infinite Earths so some of the latter baxter series stuff like the Magic Wars story should be out now. I would say since Projectra was in her Sensor Girl costume in the Lightning Saga so that much I would think is still in. The major cutoff point would have to be around Legion of Super Heroes 37 since that was the "Death of Superboy" story. So I would think their past started changing right after Crisis around issues 16-18 of the baxter series and was completly changed by issue 37.

At least that is the theory that makes the most sence to me anyway.

I agree, but I'll also point out that there are other differences between this Legion and the original Legion that reach back long before Crisis on Infinite Earths. Supergirl, for instance. Chemical King and Tyroc, quite possibly. Other things too.

However just because we haven't seen them yet doesn't mean they don't exist in this timeline (RE: Tyroc, Supergirl, Chemical King, etc)

That's true. However, a) there are some excellent reasons for thinking that Supergirl is not part of this continuity, and b) if Tyroc and Chemical King were around, I would have expected them to appear in i) Superman's statue collection and ii) the flashback group shot in the first issue of the Action arc.

As Z-Kahn, said, it appears to be earlier than (or divergent from) post-Crisis aspects like Magic Wars (and even before hand; we see no mention of those Matthew E mentions, or even some of those who joined with Sensor Girl). Also, from what Superman said during L-Saga, there is question as to whether Thom actually fully re-joined after being expelled for killing, as he did in the #340s of Adventure Comics (I forget the number).

KK tried to return with the rest of the L-Saga team (I'm gonig from memory here; my copies of the story are 1,000 miles away and I haven't seen them since they were current), but was detained; I gather that Countdown involves KK having some illness that needs to be cured in the 21st (for some odd reason).

differences in the timeline we've seen thus far:
1. No Supergirl or certain other members - as far as we know. KK and Una made it clear in Sg 21/22 that they only knew Supergirl from history media, never in person.
2. Clark as Clark not Superboy; no secret ID-prank with LSH first meeting.
3. Question as to Thom's membership status; his insanity/medication is a new twist as well.
4. Hints of some connection between Wildfire and Red Tornado.
5. KK alive at the same point in LSH membership as Sensor Girl; in Levitz Jeckie does not become SG til after Val's death. Val hints at having been saved by Founders. Superman remembered Jeckie as SG; thus some semblance of Superboy's last few Levitz appearances remains (Superman says the last he'd seen them was pre-Crisis; that would have been around the time Jeckie re-joined as SG in secret - so either Kal knew the secret along with Imra... or things happeend a little differently).
6. Una refers to herself as being part of Triplicate Girl, not Dup Damsel - possibly not to confuse Supergirl, possibly because she is Luornu's 3rd body, also rescued from time as Val may have been. Superman did remember Luornu losing her third body; this was made clear during Lightning Saga.
7. Nothing resembling the Death of Superboy, Conspiracy or the like seems to have happened. Very little (other than Legionnaires knowing Jeckie is Sensor Girl) suggests anything post-Crisis (let alone TMK).
8. If Val was not rescued in time from death, then we have a clear pre-Crisis deviation, and Jeckie became SG for completely different reasons. This would help explain why her fellow "class of '85" members are absent (except Brek, who could have been around anyway).

that's those I can recall off the top of my head.

I suspect that in this timeline, Lightning Lad, Cosmic Boy and Saturn Girl never retired from the Legion the way they actually did just before CoIE.

For other differences, I might mention:

- did we ever get a look at Jeckie's internal anatomy pre-Crisis? Because she's got two hearts now
- Dream Girl's powers now come from the Dreaming, not from Naltorian super-science. Nitpicking, perhaps: it's a change that can be made without affecting too much else, but it's also a whole different take on the character
- Luthor was used in some early Legion stories; presumably that can't be true for this new version

good points, Matthew.

-we see nothing either way on the retirement, or even the kid(s).

-In Levitz era, Jeckie's homeworld Orando was hinted or stated to have been settled by Zerox, which as we later found out was Gemworld, settled by medieval humans through a magic gateway around 1300ish. Therefore Jeckie was assumed to be earth-human, or the two-heart thing would have to have been a seperate development, or Orando was not completely of earth-human stock.

-Naltorian science could theoretically involve tapping the Dreaming, just as the Kirby 70s Sandman sort-of did (although in a much different way).

-presumably true; I'm not up to speed on what official-continuity Luthor's backstory is these days. But presumably a costumeless Clark would not have a classic super-villain nemesis. I can't really consider Luthor to have been a major factor in LSH history in any event, but clearly any Superboy supporting cast member's role would be altered, too, as we've arelady seen with Mon-El in the Action annual last year. I didn't see the need to single out all Superboy cast members individually; I felt they would be covered by a blanket mention of no Superboy.

It's also implied that the Mon in the threeboot is the same Mon that is put in the Phantom Zone in the Action annual (or at least he thinks he was put there by "Supergirl's cousin"). Which seems to indicate that either a) the same Mon meets both Legions; or b) The LSL Mon is yet another Mon with a slightly different origin. It's worth noting that the lack of Luthor also seems to alter the circumstances under which Mon joins the team.

It's also stated by KK in Countdown that the Australia of his time (as in the Threeboot) is now the South Pole, which would affect Chemical King's death story if he does exist in this version of the Legion.

Re: The founders retiring. They could've still retired and just made a come back.

The biggest sticking point I think is Supergirl. The rest can be just oversites or minor tweaks, but the Supergirl factor is a biggie.

I agree about Supergirl. Geoff made a mention of replacements for certain characters. I love Laurel Kent but I wouldn't want that again.

It's certainly possible. But their not retiring is actually a really good explanation for the apparent lack of three of the "Levitz Five" that joined after their retirement.

I actually think of that the other way. They could have Tyroc or Chemical King or whatever in there if they want, but at this stage of continuity, they can't use Supergirl--so I give them a break on that. If Supergirl was the only difference, I'd say there was effectively no difference.

That is true. No Magnetic Kid, Quislet or Tellus. Though we did see Sensor Girl and Polar Boy. And I just have this feeling Quislet will show up before all is said and done.

And why can't they just bring back the original Supergirl and have her just stay in the 31st century.

Did Dream Girl's powers originally come from Naltorian super science? I thought it was the other way around. In Adv. 363 Naltor's president (or whoever) says that their science is based on their visions and in that solo Dream Girl story, she discovers that Naltor's earthquake vibrations were responsible for their visions. Or something like that.

I agree that they can't really use Supergirl in the LSL, unfortunately.

okay I've just finished reading the lighting saga
could some one point me to where they talk about who is stuck in the thing <--that's my attempt to be subtle

Is Dream Girl going to appear in the next issue of Action? I really liked her in the Lightning Saga.

jimgallagher: I think Naltorians' powers originally came from their science. In that solo story, it was the machines they used to regulate the earthquakes that were interfering with their visions: they were vibrating on an inconvenient frequency, or something, so Nura had to recalibrate them so there wouldn't be any negative effects.

Askanipsion: According to some exposition, Dream Girl's on Naltor at the moment. I guess she could appear, but my suspicion is she'll remain offscreen during this story.

Tis a shame....since she has disappeared from the regular Legion series....Brainy has also not been shown so I wonder if he is with Dream Girl now.

I would like to see Shooter's take on her.

Presumably Barry Allen, the Silver Age flash. Each of the locations the various reams visited had some connection with Barry, or his final visitations during the original Crisis.

Brainy and the LSH seemed surprised it was Wally, not Barry, they freed.

Since Barry spent almost all of his last six months alive in the 30th century, where he fathered Don and Dawn Allen, the Tornado Twins that the LSH knew, there is presumably some connection Brainy was seeking to take advantage of.

Huh. I thought that it was Bart Allen in the thing. Didn't he die around the same time Wally came back? And I thought that Bats and Hal thought that it was Barry. I don't think that the Legionnaires gave any indication of who they were bringing back. They were going for someone, but it just wasn't Wally&Family.

(I'm going by memory here. It's been a while since I've read those issues and I don't have them on hand to check them out.)

I think you're right about the Legionnaires giving no indication; it was my interpretation that Brainy expected Barry. I should have clarified.

Given all the locations, Bart seems unlikely, but so did Wally so no one can really say at this point.