Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION The Anywhere Machine It hurts when you can't share a passion ...

... which is eminently not true here. We can be sharing any and all opinions (and facts, and our own creations) about the Legion without being in any fear of being ostracized. All that's called for is deeming the Legion worthy of artistic respect, in some form and in some period. You don't have to be a "fan," dedicated that much, though of course it helps and makes it more enjoyable.

It gets frustrating when you can't do that with other passions.

I've been an admirer of Barbra Streisand and her work for 33 years, half again as long as I have been for the Legion. For the last 20 years, I've sought places to talk about the artist and her creations.

I venture to note that I've been no more of a curmudgeon or critic than I have been here. I have Legion eras (and Streisand emphases) that I dislike, some that I adore. I'm candid about both. I've tried to be articulate about both, always noting that many reasonable opinions exist.

Yet I've also noted that I see many elements of visual and writing (and vocal and acting) techniques as being worthy of objective judgment, as to how well they carry out their intended purposes. Or, at least, that we're capable of thus judging such matters.

AFOB likes to say in his signatures that "The only consistent factor of all your dissatisfying relationships is you." Well, such a phenomenon as a destructive group pathology exists, so I have to disagree with him. I know this because every forum for discussing Streisand that I've encountered in two decades has blown up. Every one.

Anyone who is less than an overemoting fan -- of every aspect of the woman, from politics to personal life, as well as every work she's created -- is suspected of being treasonous to the fannish cause. Or separating and judging politics from art and music is seen as carving her up in an intellectual sense. Or fans-as-fanatics are the ones wanted, to the point of moderators editing all posts in advance. Or those sufficiently critical of any one point about her, no matter what it is, are seen as polluting the tone of the forum and are banned. (I'm not talking about Stu's jokes. I'm talking about really being literally banned.)

I can't find any community of Streisand admirers that hasn't, in the end, been taken over by sheer worship and mindless adulation. I have tried for twenty frigging years. Seven such forums have become inhospitable, or have decided to exclude all but the sycophants. I'm getting fed up.

Not with Barbra's creative work. She's had an excellent run -- several of them, in a host of media. But with my not being able to even describe, to anyone who gives more than an occasional damn, what I see in her falling short, whether in losing vocal technique or in being politically obtuse. It's set against my respect for her achievements, so I'm not griping for the hell of it, or to bash her, but out of wanting more and better from her. That doesn't seem to matter any more.

The comics community doesn't tend to be like this. Perhaps because the material isn't tied to the foibles, for better and worse, of one creator. Perhaps because a broader range of imaginative innovation exists than in popular music and mainstream movies. (Certainly broader than exists in Streisand's career, her early musical innovation notwithstanding.)

I'm spoiled by Legion World, and a very few similar venues, and I'd like to find more.

Do you have spheres of your own artistic or other interests where the Net has fallen short? Where, even in this nearly infinite playground, you can't find others who are willing to put up with your particular color of discussion marbles? Where you can't be an intelligent critic, at times, without being figuratively run out of the electronic town? Where you don't have any place to talk freely without watching your back for those slamming you?

I'm sure you have at least one such interest. Please tell us about it.

If I told you, they could arrest me!

Grey, we may disagree over her politics, but if you love her work that much, which is what you are talking about here, why don't you start your own, and invite the people you want to.

I'll admit, she's not my cuppa tea either artistically or politically, but my enjoyment isn't the issue, your's is. I'm sure Gary and Scott would be willing to give you some direction if you aren't skilled at setting up sites. I honestly don't know if you are or not.

And while we may disagree politically, we both agree that its nice to have a little place where everyone knows your name, lol.

My own interests are many and varied, with no one taking up a majority portion of my interest.

Baseball, scuba diving, my very large (for me, lol) library of books that aren't comics, my very large library (for me, lol) library of actual comics, my love of working with my hands building things...just call me a jack of all trades, lol.

I've explained to my wife several times that it hurts when I can't share my passion, but it doesn't seem to make any difference.....

But you're right, Grey, we do have a wonderful opportunity here. Anyone who's spent time on the Star Trek boards or the Marvel boards has to appreciate how mature and thoughtful our group is.

The big passions for me are Bauhaus art especially Paul Klees work, indie music and several unmentionables

I love Babs too... though like you Steve I don't always agree with her choices...like the entire Return to Broadway album - wot was that for?

I know exactly how you feel. You might have noticed (LOL)that I love Erasure. They do have their own forum and I participate occasionally, but it still doesn't feel "right" to me.

I recently discovered a site (w/ message board) dedicated to John Barry and Matt Munro (I understand the 1st, but the 2nd?). It being a BRITISH site, I should have expected this-- the fans there have NO sense of humor!!! Anyone who's ever read an issue of STARBURST magazine (the UK equivalent of STARLOG) would know this already. It seems the Brits are incapable of reviewing a film, etc., without RIPPING IT TO SHREDS intellectually. If that's what they call "enjoying" something, they have very odd notions... At any rate, I posted a humorous comment about a certain Shirley Bassey song and some hard-head immediately responded by grilling me about what I "must" be implying, rather than just taking EXACTLY what I said, word-for-word, in the spirit it was clearly intended and not trying to add his own agenda to it. (Hey-- I posted the EXACT same comment on this board, and NOBODY batted an eye.)

Barbara Sterisand gets mentioned a LOT on 2 shows I watch-- SOUTH PARK (best not go there... heeheehee) and, THE NANNY. (In that "cartoon" world, the Jewish people refer to Barbara in worshipful terms as "their leader".)

I recently read that Barbara was Ellen Foley's "hero", and who she WANTED TO BE when she started her own career. That took me back a bit, but somehow made sense of some of Foley's unusual career choices. (Given a choice, in some fantasy alternate reality, I'd take Ellen WITHOUT hesitation!)