0 members (),
45
Murran Spies, and
2
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Previous Thread |
|
Next Thread
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
Not much between despair and ecstacy
|
Not much between despair and ecstacy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141 |
Re: # 266-67.
After re-reading the heavy-handedness of 5YL (including Dirk’s tragic story), I find it oddly refreshing to get back to a Conway tale. As others have noted, this story is competent but mediocre. It presents four modestly powered Legionnaires defeating an incredibly powerful enemy with little cost to themselves, other than burning out the warp drive of their Legion Cruiser. This tale is indeed a stark contrast to 5YL.
I had mixed feelings about this story when it came out. None of the four Legionnaires featured were favorites of mine. On the other hand, it was nice to see Chuck and Lu again and to have some continuity with their previous Wondil IX adventure. The story ends with Chuck and Lu apparently thinking about rejoining the Legion—a cliffhanger, of sorts, that was never followed up on.
The story is also a definite period piece. Notice the roles women have here: On Vulkan, it’s the women who are fighter pilots while the men “handle operations from the command base.” It’s also Lu who ultimately defeats Kantuu. In 1980, Women’s Lib was not that old, and it must have seemed daringly original (to Conway if not to DC) to feature women in such roles. I had to laugh when Tage said she was glad that “women’s reflexes are so much faster than men’s.” Such reverse discrimination seems dated now.
I don’t mind the silliness of Kantuu being a genie or the attempt to give his origin credibility by tying it in with the Guardians of Oa. But I, too, feel he was defeated too easily. My complaint isn’t so much with the three wishes as with the Legionnaires beating Kantuu to earth and gathering up all the other genie bottles before he arrived. What did Kantuu do? Take a snooze on the way?
Janes’ art does seem to have improved. The lines are cleaner and some of his faces (particularly Chuck and Lu) are more distinctive.
This story is neither good nor bad. It’s an episodic tale of a day in the life of the Legion circa 1980.
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,205
Legionnaire!
|
Legionnaire!
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,205 |
#269 through #271
The Dark Man Saga
This story is one hot mess. Earlier, I criticized Space Circus for being boring. Dark Man is not boring. It does seem to be kind of all over the place though. It gives us a couple of lasting contributions to Legion lore.
First, is the election of Colossal Boy’s mother, Marte Allon, as Earth’s President. This was interesting and unexpected. Conway’s vision of a single day election in a festival like atmosphere was a solid concept. The idea that the candidates were selected by computer was a good bit of science fiction. Princess Projectra didn’t approve of the process and asserted that leaders on her world were trained from birth, as she defended the idea of nobility. This was nice characterization by Conway. It was progress in the development of a more interesting and complex personality for Projectra. Levitz would capitalize more on this later. Gim’s concerns about how his mother’s potential election would impact him and the Legion were a good set up for future stories and subplots. Conway is clearly making attempts at real characterization, as opposed to the melodrama and overacting mentioned in earlier posts. That’s not to say that the overacting has gone away, though. It’s on pretty obvious display with Mon-El still.
Conway makes a real effort to develop Timber Wolf’s character with this story. He gets a lot of panel time and much is made of his loner status, difficulty communicating and being part of a team. Much of it is overly dramatic and, for me, seemed over the top. Brin left monitor duty alone to respond to an emergency signal from Lar and Tasmia. Garth tried to call him on it, Brin argued, Garth backed down, Garth took it out on Ayla, Ayla fretted, and Imra lectured Garth on leadership. None of them came across well.
The other big development was the set up for Blok’s induction into the Legion. Brin and Ayla seek assistance from the jailed League of Assassins members in locating the Dark Man. It’s pointed out that the Dark Man gave the League their powers – again a contradiction to what we later learn about Blok’s race. In a complicated bit, Brin and Ayla circle the Earth in a Legion cruiser, at Blok’s instruction, in order to discover the Dark Man’s communication frequency. ??? By the end of the story, Blok’s transformation from villain to hero is completed after he frees Brin from captivity and shakes the Dark Man out of hydroponic tree on his sometimes spaceship/sometimes boat in the North Atlantic. Did I use the phrase hot mess to describe this story earlier? Are you beginning to see why?
Mon-El, Shadow Lass. Princess Projectra, Colossal Boy, and Shrinking Violet spend much of the story trapped under the ocean in a pure neutron sphere. They eventually escape after Projectra tricks a trademark Conway sea monster into fighting with an illusion of itself. During the fight, it cracks the pure neutron sphere open from the outside. The combined might of Mon-El, Wildfire, and Colossoal Boy could not bust it open from the inside. Pure neutron spheres, you see, are vulnerable from the outside but not the inside. Hot mess.
The Dark Man himself confuses me more than anything else about this story. There is a lot of mystery and drama about “Who is the Dark Man?” in the first couple of issues. He turns out to be a kind of clone doppleganger of Thaork, with a whole body. Ayla discovers a mysteriously edited video tape on the spaceship boat thing that shows how some scientist dude cloned Tharok’s brain, how the brain learned to talk in Tharok’s voice by using mental energy to vibrate the air, made the scientist dude create a body for him, declared that he is all that is dark in the human spirit, fed on the scientist dude, and revealed that he is life force vampire, and that he was creating surrogates to test those who opposed him, so that he could neutralize an opposing force in the cosmos. Got that? Good. His powers are never really clear but he seems to have a lot of them.
Eventually the Legion, Blok and the Fatal Five team up to defeat the Dark Man. As mentioned earlier, Blok shakes him out of a tree. In a classic Conway two panel finale battle, Tharok and the Dark Man charge into one another. There is a big “KRATOOM”, and they both cease to exist. They were doppelgangers and couldn’t exist together or something like that.
The greatest tragedy of this story, for me, is how ineffectual the Fatal Five appeared to be. Arguably, the Legion’s greatest villains were reduced to nothing more than simpering pawns of the Dark Man.
Things seemed to start to unravel for Jimmy Janes during this arc. He started strong in issue #269 with some great group shots of the Legion at the election festival and a stunning splash page of Validus attacking Mon-El and Shadow Lass. By the end of #271 everything looked sloppy and rushed.
The letters page of #271 gives us some insight into how Conway’s run was perceived by readers at the time. The comments were on Kantuu story. Editor, Jack C. Harris wrote at the end:
“Another really nice thing about this month’s mailbag was that there were no letters advocating a lynch mob for writer Gerry Conway. We’ve always said that it takes TIME for any creative team hit stride on a new (to them) feature. We KNEW that Gerry was the right writer for the Legion and it seems he’s finally proven it to you fans! We never had any doubts!”
Beauty's where you find it. Not just where you bump and grind it.
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
Not much between despair and ecstacy
|
Not much between despair and ecstacy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141 |
Excellent review, Jerry. I had written mine before you posted yours, so there is some overlap.
My favorite part of these issues is the opening pages of 269, wherein the Legionnaires attend a political rally. There are a several good character moments in this scene: Mon and Shady run off to the beach and leave Jeckie hanging (though why she wasn’t using her flight ring is unclear). Jeckie finds the “rabble rousing” of the campain “disturbing.” And Gim learns that his mom is running for president.
To be sure, Conway tries to milk the drama for all its worth. Gim finds out about his mom on page 4, and we, the readers, do not learn why he acts so surprised until two pages later. In between, there’s a silly bit when Imra tells the “hysterical” Gim that he’s “among friends.” Frankly, the revelation wasn’t worth dragging it out that long.
All in all, the “Dark Man” story reads is it might if Marvel had published the Legion. There are several character bits, as above. Old foes (the Fatal Five) attack and capture several Legionnaires. Then we learn that the old foes are actually working for a new enemy (the Dark Man). The remaining Legionnaires have to seek help from another old enemy (Blok) in order to locate their teammates. The other enemy helps them for reasons of his own, and the Legionnaires aren’t certain they can trust him.
Fairly standard stuff.
Until Marvel creators jumped ship for DC, stylistic differences sharply divided the two companies. DC, short on character development, prided itself on clever plotlines. For Marvel, plot always took a back seat to the interpersonal drama of the characters. Spidey fights Doc Ock this month—but that’s not nearly as interesting as Peter Parker’s money woes or girlfriend woes, or Spidey being branded a menace by JJJ.
That’s pretty much what happens here. The Dark Man/Fatal Five story is serviceable, but it takes a back seat to Conway’s attempts at character development. I say “attempts” because not all of his efforts are successful. For example, he again tries to instill drama by playing up Timber Wolf’s loner status. Wolf violates Legion protocol by investigating his missing teammates’ disappearance on his own. He then argues with Lightning Lad (“I don’t care about rules”). Had Brin only just joined the Legion, his actions might have made sense. Instead, he comes off as childish and spoiled.
On the other hand, Garth’s insecurity as leader—he loses his cool with both Wolf and his own sister—foreshadows a plotline Levitz developed later, leading to Garth’s resignation as leader. This scene is quite believable—there was a reason, it seems, why Garth had never been leader before: he took matters too personally.
(And then Conway ruins the scene by having Garth tell his wife, “Now I know why you never ran for Legion leader twice.” Not only did Saturn Girl serve as leader twice, she also ran for a third term, in Superboy # 190.)
Another Marvel-esque aspect is that Conway has characters doing things that the story requires, regardless of whether these things are consistent with past portrayals. When Mano first appears, he shoots a destructive beam out of his hand. Oh, really? In every other appearance, Mano had to touch something in order to disintegrate it. Validus inexplicably talks throughout these issues.
However, the Dark Man does take a bit longer to defeat than Conway’s usual Legion villains, and the action scenes are well done. Timber Wolf, in particular, gets a good showcase at the end.
Another plus is that we get to spend some time with Colossal Boy’s parents. In a previous storyline, Conway used Legionnaire parents only as fodder for the villain. This time, Gim brings some Legionnaire buddies home to celebrate his mother’s nomination. Gim then has a heart-to-heart with his father over how it might affect Gim as a Legionnaire if his mother wins the election. This all-too-rare scene rounds out a Legionnaire by showing him connected to something other than the Legion and by suggesting political implications.
Two major events happen in this story: Tharok dies, thus ending the original Fatal Five, and Blok “reforms,” leading to his joining the Legion in the next issue. Of the former, I can only say that Tharok’s death came as a surprise—what is even more surprising is that he was never brought back (at least not to my memory); when the Fatal Five reappeared some years later during Levitz’s run, it was virtually a different team.
Of the second, I can’t help feeling frustrated because Conway never gives us an indication as to why Blok does what he does. In his previous appearance, Blok was a reluctant villain; still, it does not follow that he would risk losing his only friends in order to help the Legionnaires find the Dark Man. It was fine for the Legionnaires not to fully trust him, but, as readers, we should at least have had a hint of his intentions. Conway only has Blok tell us “I was wrong to want to kill Legionnaires” without telling us what caused him to change his stoney heart.
The Dark Man story is not bad—in fact, with three issues, Conway at last has room to stretch the story out and make it more satisfying. It’s a noble effort marred by ineffective character bits and shoddy research.
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,205
Legionnaire!
|
Legionnaire!
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,205 |
Great review, too. Yes, some overlap and fairly similar conclusions. Hopefully we inspired Sketch Lad to dive into Dark Man, or at least let him off the hook for posting a review.
We brushed earlier on the topic of art and story. In my JLA reading, I'm finding that my enjoyment of Conway's stories is really enhanced when Perez does the pencils. The Conway/Perez Starro Saga is a high point. The little Starro replicants attached to everyone's faces may have seemed silly as illustrated by someone else. The realism of the Perez art made them frightening.
Beauty's where you find it. Not just where you bump and grind it.
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 140
Substitute
|
Substitute
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 140 |
I'll admit that I have a huge soft spot for the Dark Man issues, because they were the first issues of a comic that I ever bought. (I had been introduced to the Legion shortly before when I swiped a digest from my brother.) These issues also cemented Timber Wolf as my favorite legionnaire and, while I can understand people's criticism of Brin as a loner given his history, it was a nice angle to a reader without his entire history. By the way, I don't think it is necessarily contradictory with his backstory. Reading the entire run, I always figured the tension could be atributed to ambivalence. On the one hand, Brin had been alone for a long time so the Legion (and Ayla) were an attractive option. But after a few years in the Legion, the group dynamic could chafe a bit and during the S/LSH run, Brin began to think he was only still in the Legion because of Ayla. It seems to me that this all ultimately plays out after Great Darkness when Brin finally realizes that he needs the Legion, even if it is without Ayla.
On rereading, though, I agree with the "hot mess" aspects of the run. There are just too many inconsistencies, the Fatal Five does come across weak, and the Tharok/Dark Man implosion is an incredible WTF? moment.
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,215
Time Trapper
|
OP
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,215 |
Thanks for keeping the reviews going, guys. I finally read this 3 parter.
I'll sort of note things in sequence.
I like that the Legion has a happy occasion to think about something besides their troubles. The characterization exhibited in the political rally was pretty interesting. Colossal Boy and Saturn Girl emerged as most dramatic. I love the idea that Marte is nominated for president.
I also love the very romantic scene with Mon and Tas. However, when the "meteoroid" hits, why didn't Mon use telescopic vision? Also, they've colored in Shady's torso to indicate that we're not looking at a skimpy bikini.
I'll use HWW's word for the artistic storytelling : serviceable. I'll add that it borders on bland.
I like the action sequence of Mon & Shady vs Validus, Persuader and Emerald Empress. The two kept getting surprised by the other three until they were captured. Much better than a simple swift capture.
Lone W -- I mean Timber Wolf is acting weird (again). Why is he having such problems? As a long time Brin fan, I'm both annoyed and interested in what's going on with him. (I know that it will lead to him seeking medical assistance in the Levitz era following.)
I also like the scene where Mano and Tharok attack the Legionnaires at the Allon home. Yeah, weird.. Mano can now blast his energies from his hand! That's new.
Characterization note - Wildfire laughs off the idea of explaining "democracy to a princess." He ends that comment with a flirty note similar to the one he said about Dreamy in the Starburst Bandits episode.
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,215
Time Trapper
|
OP
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,215 |
In #270, the plot continues. Lone Wolf (cheeky grin) and Ayla seem to be the only ones available to fight against the 5, and they've now learned that the Dark Man is involved. I like the way the Dark Man is intro'd - involved somehow with the FF and tied to the League of Super Assasins, whom Brin and Ayla contact. They're all still crazy, except Blok.
This is the second time we've seen Ayla show some real skill as a detective, I believe. Previously, it was against Dagon the Avenger.
Ayla, Brin and Blok find the Dark Man's ship and see that he's a non cyborg (fully human) version of Tharok!
This issue had a lot of recaps and conversation along with some action. It felt very part-2-of-3.
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,215
Time Trapper
|
OP
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,215 |
Detective Ayla learns the Dark Man's origin - he's a clone of Tharok, ultra powered by the radiation from the bomb that destroyed half of Tharok's human body - and he's a life-force vampire. This is a fascinating idea!
The various groups of Legionnaires gather on Dark Man's ship. Lightning Lad and Saturn Girl join forces with the FF in order to take down the Dark Man. The action is pretty good, illustrated by okay-level artwork.
The Dark Man and Tharok knock each other out of existence. Conway!!!!! sigh....
This larger grouping of Legionnaires haul the now Fatal Four to jail OFF PANEL! sigh....
Marte Allon is the new president.
I just sorta wish an editor or maybe one of Conway's friends or family members could have pre-read the script and let him know that his formula was showing again. There was some decent characterization stuck in between some decent action sequences, within a decent plot that ended just too simply and typically.
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
Not much between despair and ecstacy
|
Not much between despair and ecstacy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141 |
# 272: “The Secret Origin of Blok!”
Why this origin has to be “secret,” per the title, is unclear, as Blok says he no longer has anything to hide. For that matter, neither does this story: It’s a straightforward narrative about Blok’s history and successful bid to join the Legion.
As with most of Conway’s stories, this one offers no surprises. It accomplishes its simple objective to portray Blok in a positive light and show how he might be useful to the Legion. In doing so, however, Conway portrays other applicants as dunces who don’t recognize real villains when they see them. He also takes Wildfire and Sun Boy out of action too quickly and has Dawnstar calling Lightning Lad for help. This might be understandable if the Legionnaires were going up against the (pre-Conway) Fatal Five or the Time Trapper. Instead, they square off against the Starburst Bandits, villains who were hardly worth raising a fuss over the first time around.
The story begins well enough. At a Legion Academy training session, Wildfire blasts Blok with his energy beam in order to see how tough the latter is. Blok doesn’t flinch; he says that the energy blast tickles, suggesting that the rocky newcomer has a subtle sense of humor. Conway then develops that sense of humor further by having Blok walk through an obstacle course consisting of pistons that shoot from the floor, ceiling, and walls of the training room. Instead of attempting to evade the pistons, Blok merely allows them to crash into him and break.
As Wildfire sulks away, Blok relates his story to Sun Boy and Dawnstar, as well as three other applicants, Lamprey, Nightwind, and “the” Crystal Kid. He recounts how his world had no name until it was settled by colonists from earth who thought that the world was uninhabited. In truth, the natives—a race of living rocks—chose not to reveal themselves until they were certain of the settlers’ peaceful intentions and learned their language.
Somewhat later, Blok, then a small child, was playing with several human friends when six Legionnaires evacuated the planet before its sun went supernova, as recounted previously (S/LSH # 254). Too young to understand what was happening, Blok and his friends blamed the Legionnaires for destroying their world. Later, they were turned into the League of Super-Assassins by the Dark Man.
Although this account differs from what we’d previously been told about Blok’s origin, a far more glaring hole is left in the story. Was Blok the only native of Dryad to be rescued? No mention is made of other rock people survivors, and, during later stories by Levitz and Giffen, Blok is portrayed as the last of his race. How could it be that only Blok was rescued?
Blok’s narrative is interrupted by scenes of the Starbust Bandits, who escape from their Himalayan prison and make their way to the Metropolis zoo, where they retrieve their flaming steeds. (Why fiery horses used by criminals were turned into a sight-seeing attraction is anybody’s guess.) The Legion is alerted, and, since the team is short-handed—what else is new?—Lightning Lad issues flight rings to the four applicants so they can be tested in battle. One flight ring cannot lift Blok, however, so he requires assistance from Sun Boy and Dawnstar, who join Wildfire in leading the applicants while Lightning Lad remains on monitor duty.
The battle then goes pretty much as expected. The other three applicants, thinking the bandits to be part of a drill, blunder into the villains’ starburst bolts. Wildfire, Sun Boy and Dawny are waylaid, and it’s up to Blok to save the day. He does so by absorbing the starburst bolts and directing them back toward the bandits.
The Legionnaires then gather around to welcome Blok as their newest member. Conway seems to be at his best when writing interpersonal stuff such as the Legion Academy scenes and Blok’s origin. These scenes are well paced and pull the reader into the emotions of the characters.
The plot, however, is full of missed opportunities. At one point, Conway sets up foreshadowing by having Lightning Lad suggest that Wildfire test Blok’s skill and courage instead of just his brute strength. Such a test never materializes. Instead, Blok defeats the bandits in pretty much the same way he destroyed the training pistons: by doing nothing.
Another opportunity is missed in the depiction of Lamprey, Nightwind, and Crystal Kid, three applicants who were created by Legion fans. It's always nice when readers get to contribute something to the mythos; however, the three applicants serve only as cannon fodder. They never even get a chance to do what Legion applicants have done since the beginning: demonstrate their powers.
Then, there are the Starburst Bandits themselves. Conway creates an interesting twist by revealing that the guns they used previously serve merely to focus their starburst bolts—the bolts originate within the bandits themselves. Yet the starburst bolts seem just as effective without the guns, leading me to wonder why they needed guns in the first place.
Steve Ditko’s art serves the story well, and he creates imaginative creatures and impressive space scenes. However, some of his character poses are laughable. What is Wildfire supposed to be doing on page 5? Walking like a space Egyptian??
Once again, Conway’s story does what it needs to do. In some ways, though, this effort rises slightly above previous ones. The focus on Blok—a single character—gives the story a grounding and purpose that most of Conway's Legion stories lack. He instills enough personality in Blok that the reader cares about him and rejoices in his all-too-easy victory.
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,215
Time Trapper
|
OP
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,215 |
Don't have much to add about the Blok story. Um, I like Blok. I'm glad he made it into the Legion. It's too bad Gerry Conway forgot his own story regarding the details of his past. Maybe the editor made him change things?
Can't understand why Ditko keeps illustrating Legion stories. It just doesn't fit.
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,364
Wanderer
|
Wanderer
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,364 |
I never knew Lamprey, Crystal Kid and Nightwind were fan-created characters. That's an interesting tidbit.
One thing that always struck me about this story when I read it years after I had read many other Legion stories (including Who's Who in the Legion and the 5YL stories) was how utterly, utterly BLAND the designs for the above three applicants were.
I'd first been introduced to Nightwind with those cool facial markings and hood and Crystal Kid with his crystal hair and weird puffy shirt - but here they're all given the most boring, non-descript appearances ever.
Were their outfits/looks also designed by the fans (which I find hard to believe after seeing some of the retina-searing costumes fans have designed for other characters... exhibit A - Mal Duncan) or was Steve Ditko just having a really, really lazy day?
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,364
Wanderer
|
Wanderer
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,364 |
Gerry Conway = the writer of Blacula's favourite ever comic (Justice League of America #200) so reading this thread essentially slamming him is a bit of a bitter pill to swallow.
In all honesty though I can't disagree with any of the criticisms. When I think back on this Legion-era (and it's been years since I read it) I remember a few bright sparks (he used Collosal Boy a lot which this #1 Gim-fan appreciates, and it was nice seeing things like the Legion parents, RJ Brande's return, Tyroc's island and Chuck & Lu)) but my abiding memory of this period is how boring AND annoying the stories were.
That's a tough combination to create in a comic I think (you usually need something of note going on to be annoyed by it) but Conway somehow managed to tell stories that were almost completely uninteresting while at the same time creating little ways of annoying the readers (like with Mano's weird power changes or all those disappointing endings).
Having said that, I've developed a bit of a soft spot for 70s/early 80s comics (the last time comics were at their most pure and innocent IMO - the mid-late 80s introducing us to depressing, grim and gritty "adult" stories and I don't think the medium has ever been the same since) so I'd like to re-read these comics sometime and see if I don't get some more enjoyment out of them.
One final note - preboot Wildfire has always been one of my very least-favourite Legionnaires and after reading this thread I'm beginning to wonder if Gerry Conway wasn't primarily responsible for that? I might have to re-read some non-Conway Wildfire stories sometime too and see if my opinion of him doesn't soften somewhat. After all, I can't hate a character just because one writer wrote him badly.
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,897
Wanderer
|
Wanderer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,897 |
Originally posted by Blacula: I never knew Lamprey, Crystal Kid and Nightwind were fan-created characters. That's an interesting tidbit.
...
I'd first been introduced to Nightwind with those cool facial markings and hood and Crystal Kid with his crystal hair and weird puffy shirt - but here they're all given the most boring, non-descript appearances ever.
Were their outfits/looks also designed by the fans (which I find hard to believe after seeing some of the retina-searing costumes fans have designed for other characters... exhibit A - Mal Duncan) or was Steve Ditko just having a really, really lazy day? Night<strike>wing</strike>wind Lamprey & Crystal Kid All three were designed by John Workman.
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,364
Wanderer
|
Wanderer
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,364 |
Thanks Gary. That was an interesting thread. I can blame John Workman for the boring designs then. (Though to be honest, I couldn't have done any better.) I'm shocked I've never heard of Transporter Boy or Thunderbow before this though! I thought funky obscurio characters like those two would've had about half a dozen tribute threads on Legion World by now. EDE? Lash? What's taking you so long?
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
Not much between despair and ecstacy
|
Not much between despair and ecstacy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141 |
Originally posted by Blacula: Gerry Conway = the writer of Blacula's favourite ever comic (Justice League of America #200) so reading this thread essentially slamming him is a bit of a bitter pill to swallow. I think we've all tried to be fair in our reviews by pointing out things that worked. But sometimes you have a call a bad story a bad story. As I pointed out previously, Conway admits in an interview that the Legion was not top priority for him--JLA was (which accounts for the favorable comments about his JLA work by you and others). Therefore, I don't feel it's appropriate to excuse his work or make allowances for it. Clearly, his heart wasn't in his Legion work.
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 465
Active
|
Active
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 465 |
Well, you guys pretty well summed up the Dark Man saga. although I do enjoy the arc it was for a lot of the reasons everyone has already listed and the things that annoy me were also listed. A few extra things of note (to me).
Light Lass lifting the ship. I am always impressed by this scene because I can't recall Light Lass ever doing anything on this scale before. Usually she just uses her power on one or two goons and then gets wonked from behind or something. So to see her override the gravity on an entire ship was impressive. I just wish that Conway had followed up on making Ayla more awesome by not having her turn into "girl hostage" at the end.
The Dark Man's origin. A on concept C on execution. The way the origin was revealed was cliched beyond belief. Mid-story hero comes across the records that reveal the origin in full and then gets surprised by the bad guy himself. So not to happy about that, but I liked the idea of Tharok's human half being cloned, and the idea of a life-vampire (whatever that is). Not sure if they needed to be married but still great concepts nonetheless, but then they all disappear.
The fight scenes (early on). I actually enjoyed the fight in the Allon's apartment and on the beach, it really made the Fatal Five seem fearsome in that they were able to break into smaller groups and still handle Legionnaires. I'm not used to seeing the FF shown that formidable (of course my first exposure to the FF has been post-ZH and they always seem to be portrayed as beatable in those stories).
Also liked the focus on Timber Wolf, a bit melodramatic, but I think he must have been one of Conway's favorites sense he got so much attention.
Lots of other things to like (and not like) but those were all mentioned earlier on.
I do think that Conway's run would have been more fondly remembered if he was paired with good artists. Rereading some of the Legion stories from when Grell was on the art duties and they can be pretty formulaic at times as well, but you don't mind because the Legion looks so pretty and the very panel layouts are dynamic, even if that particular scene isn't. However, none of the artist who worked with Conway drew a particularly beautiful Legion and even the layouts weren't very dynamic, so you focus more on the story but the story is lacking.
Long Live the Legion!
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
Not much between despair and ecstacy
|
Not much between despair and ecstacy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141 |
That's a good point about artists, Steph. It might be worthwhile to review the Grell-era stories at some point.
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,322
Legionnaire!
|
Legionnaire!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,322 |
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,205
Legionnaire!
|
Legionnaire!
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,205 |
Thanks for adding a visual dynamic to the discussion. rhino.
#272 - Excellent review by He Who Wonders. This issue is one of my favorites of Conway's run for reasons sited in the review. It's a nostalgic favorite for the use of the Nightwind, Lamprey and Crystal Kid. I like this field testing of applicants as opposed to the "display your powers in front of a group of Legionnaires sitting around a podium" method that we see so much. This seems logical. Wildfire gets some good moments. Blok's story is told effectively and he comes across as sympathetic and likable.
The Ditko art is.... well, just pure Ditko.
Beauty's where you find it. Not just where you bump and grind it.
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,205
Legionnaire!
|
Legionnaire!
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,205 |
#273: “The Man Who Framed Brainiac 5” or “A Murderer Among Us?”
In this issue Mr. Conway finds himself in the unenviable position of having to explain a major lose end from the Omega story. Brainiac 5 had never been punished or held accountable for the murder of An Ryd.
Yes, it’s a difficult place to be. As the stalwart professional, Conway plows into it and attempts to explain the unforgivable while preserving Brainiac 5’s status as a hero. I’m not sure that any writer could have pulled this off. Still, I’m not prepared to let him off the hook just because the task was nearly impossible.
First, Conway kind of put himself into this position by failing to address An Ryd’s murder when he “cured” Brainiac 5 in the amusement park episode in issue #56. The cure came too easy. Fan reaction finally forced this story to be told.
The issue opens with President Allon ordering the Legion to disband for violating their own by-laws by allowing a Legionnaire who killed to remain on the team. Conway’s character overreactions and overly dramatic dialogue are on full display here. The Legionnaires come across as dim witted by gasping in shock at the President’s allegations. Um, they were all there during Chameleon Boy’s investigation of the murder, his confrontation of Brainiac 5, and Brainiac 5’s meltdown. They fought Omega.
Chameleon Boy backtracks on all of the investigative work that he did. Gosh, I’ve realize now that I was horribly wrong. Brainiac 5 couldn’t be the murderer. It undercuts the skill he showed as espionage leader during Omega story. For Brainiac 5 to be redeemed, Chameleon Boy has to look the fool. Chameleon Boy picks Star Boy to assist him in the reopened investigation. Odd choice since Star Boy has never been portrayed as one of the more clever members. The fact that Brainiac 5 coldly prosecuted Star Boy for killing in self defense back in the Adventure days isn’t even alluded to. It almost seems as if Conway never read “The Legionnarie Who Killed” and just picked Star Boy because he hadn’t seen much action lately. Unforgivable.
In the end, Pulsar Stargrave is revealed to be the true villain. Stargrave is actually a good choice for the ultimate villain. Shooter intended him to have the stature of a major villain and his position as Brainiac 5’s nemesis had been established. Stargrave’s introduction, however, was fumbled when Shooter left midstream. Do any of us really know whether or not Stargrave was actually the original Brainiac, Brainiac 5’s father, or someone else entirely? In the end, bringing a complicated villain in to solve a complicated dilemma failed. Like the Fatal 5 in the Dark Man saga, Stargrave (Brainiac) ends up being diminished. After all this, Brainiac 5 still wasn’t fully redeemed in my eyes. Yes, the murder of An Ryd needed to be addressed. Omega was the other result of Brainiac 5’s insanity. His goal was to destroy the entire universe. That part still seemed unresolved.
We were also left with the supposed death of Ultra Boy. In a direct contradiction to the usual Conway style, this development is underplayed.
The final battle between Stargrave and Brainiac 5 was given a full four pages to play out. Querl’s use of the dual force fields was actually quite clever. No complaints with Jimmy Janes effort this time out.
Beauty's where you find it. Not just where you bump and grind it.
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,205
Legionnaire!
|
Legionnaire!
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,205 |
More side notes on Conway's accomplishments:
I'm up to the Detroit era in my rereading of Conway's JLA. I'm reminded that he had previously created Steel and Vixen. He and Don Heck were the creators of a short lived series called "Steel, the Indestructable Man" from 1978. It featured the World War II adventures of the grandfather of the JLA's Steel. Citizen Steel from John's recent JSA run is a relative of these two characters.
Vixen was originally intended to star in her own Conway penned solo magazine. It was advertised but never released due to the DC implosion. She was later introduced in a Superman story.
In a single decade, Conway had a hand in creating more DC characters who stuck, than just about any other writer that I can think of.
Beauty's where you find it. Not just where you bump and grind it.
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 25,675
space mutineer & purveyor of quality sammitches
|
space mutineer & purveyor of quality sammitches
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 25,675 |
Hmm... I actually like the designs for Nightwind and Lamprey. Then again, I usually don't like complicated costumes. Also, I don't think that I knew until now that the comic-verse made Nightwind the daughter of Mar Londo. Or did they? I can't remember any familial connection between her and Timber Wolf being emphasized in the Legion comics. Someone? Anyone?
Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on DeviantArt! Drop by and tell me that I sent you. *updated often!*
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,055
Long live the Legion!
|
Long live the Legion!
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,055 |
Originally posted by Jerry: I'm up to the Detroit era in my rereading of Conway's JLA. I'm reminded that he had previously created Steel and Vixen. That's kind of neat. They are two of my favorite 'b-league' characters. Was he also responsible for inflicting upon us Gypsy and Vibe? 'Cause that would cancel out my goodwill.
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,205
Legionnaire!
|
Legionnaire!
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,205 |
I believe he created Vibe and Gypsy specifically for the JLA.
Beauty's where you find it. Not just where you bump and grind it.
|
|
|
Re: Gerry Conway's Legion
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
Not much between despair and ecstacy
|
Not much between despair and ecstacy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141 |
Re: # 273. Jerry did an excellent job of explaining this story's faults. I'm almost embarrassed to admit that I had a letter published a few issues later praising this as the best LSH issue I'd read in a long time. After re-reading the Conway era, though, I've come to realize I wasn’t completely wrong, relatively speaking: Despite its logic flaws, this issue is indeed better than most of the issues that preceded it. Granted, that's not saying much. First, the good points: Conway continues to inject Marvel-style interpersonal drama. President Allon's unenviable task of ordering the Legion to disband creates tension between her and Colossal Boy. Also, the Legion has to confront their lapse of not addressing Brainy’s alleged crimes. Rather than being a loose end, this lapse humanizes them: who would want to believe that their teammate and buddy was a murderer? Organizations fall prey to this sort of collective denial all the time (Enron, anyone?). It could also attributed to Lightning Lad’s lack of leadership skills that the group had been allowed to table this matter for so long. The continuity with the earlier story was also fairly rare in Legion stories in those days. Again, Conway uses a Marvel technique of building off of an old storyline, whereas most DC comics assumed that readers had very short memories. It’s understandable, though, that Thom doesn’t mention Brainy’s role in the former’s court martial. It would have required too much explanation and would add nothing to the present story. I also enjoyed Brainy’s one-on-one against Stargrave. This scene afforded us a rare opportunity to see Brainy do something more besides hang around his lab and offer solutions to other Legionnaires. His use of a double forcefield was clever, indeed. Now the bad points (or, rather, more of them): The investigation. As Jerry points out, Cham looks like a fool when he second-guesses his earlier detective work. Why didn’t he investigate whether Brainy had been in An Ryd’s room before? Surely, he would have wanted an airtight case before accusing a fellow Legionnaire of murder. Ultra Boy and Phantom Girl visit Rimbor Space Control and discover that no ships resembling Brainy’s had entered or left Rimbor during the time of Ryd’s murder, and that no one resembling Brainy had visited Rimbor. C’mon, folks. How is it that Jo and Tinya can’t figure out that someone with a 12th-level intelligence could have easily used another ship and a disguise? Speaking of Ultra Boy, this experienced Legionnaire lets his guard down and allows Stargrave to blast him to kingdom come after Tinya gets injured. Well, at least Jo’s obsession with Tinya is consistent with his portrayal in Adventure # 379, which I synopsised on another thread. Just as Cham has to look the fool for Brainy to be exonerated, Jo and the other Legionnaires have to look incompetent for Brainy to have his showdown with Stargrave. Conway credits neither the Legionnaires nor their fans with much intelligence. Then there’s Stargrave himself. I can’t figure out how he fits into the original Jim Starlin story. Let’s see if I get this straight. Stargrave murdered Any Ryd to frame Brainiac 5 for framing Ultra Boy. Meanwhile, Brainy went nuts and tried to destroy the universe by creating Omega. How did Stargrave know that Brainy was going to have a breakdown about that time? Or was his involvement a coincidence? Stargrave’s motivation is also a problem. He’s just a standard baddie who took such umbrage over Brainy’s earlier refusal to partner with him that he devotes his existence to destroying Brainy. Stargrave’s involvement reduces Starlin’s story—one of the most complex and significant Legion developments of the ‘70s—to a cliché. I am, however, still impressed by the Jimmy Janes/Frank Chiaramonte artwork. The art finally starts to look attractive, and facial expressions—particularly Cham and Brainy—become distinct. Layouts are also more dynamic and interesting. One major gaffe, though: The bottom panel on page 3 is apparently intended to be a flashback to # 250. That’s Wildfire’s hand pointing at Brainy, and the Legionnaires are acting shocked while Brainy looks dead calm, mirroring a scene that occurred in the earlier issue. The dialogue, however, comes from the prosecutor general in the present story. It's ironic that I had regarded this as one of the "best" Legion stories of the time. I suppose my standards had been set so low by Conway's usual fare and the lackluster art of the period that this issue truly did seem fresh. But it's also worth noting that Conway targeted his stories for young readers who would not scrutinize the stories. It's a pity he didn't count on those same readers returning thirty years later with a more critical eye.
|
|
|
Forums14
Topics21,064
Posts1,050,188
Legionnaires1,731
|
Most Online53,886 Jan 7th, 2024
|
|
There are no members with birthdays on this day. |
|
Posts: 3,095
Joined: June 2010
|
|
|
|