Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Gerry Conway's Legion

A review of # 262.

If Conway was running out of inspiration for the circus story, things get only worse here. This issue shows him still mining TV shows for ideas. "The Planet that Captured the Legion" reads like warmed-over "Star Trek" by way of "Lost In Space."

While helping R.J. Brande create stars, several Legionnaires (Cosmic Boy, Chameleon Boy, Karate Kid, Shrinking Violet, Dream Girl, and Colossal Boy) have a run-in with space pirates. Not alien pirates, mind you, but good old-fashioned earth pirates who traverse space in wooden ships!

The pirates are, natch, androids created to serve "the Engineer," the creator of a self-sufficient planet built to amuse him. But it seems the Engineer died 250 years ago and the planet has been on autopilot ever since, even destroying a solar system in search of "suitable companions" for its dead master.

The story is so full of science fiction cliches that it offers nothing new. It's mildly entertaining to see the Legionnaires work with Brande and doing something other than super-heroing (making stars for profit), but that alone cannot salvage this turkey. The Legionnaires go through the motions of using their powers in standard ways, then the resolution comes down to Cham, who impersonates the Engineer and orders the planet to destroy itself.

The only saving grace is that this story lasted a single issue.

Actually, there is another saving grace in that the opening scene takes place on earth and catches us up with the rest of the Legion's slow progress in rebuilding their HQ. Ultra Boy and Light Lass flirt with each other and goof around; Lightning Lad worries about the burdens of command, etc. Mainly standard stuff, although the Jo and Ayla pairing was fun for a change.

James Sherman returns to the Legion and is credited as sole artist (meaning he's not paired with an inappropriate inker), but his return is a mixed blessing. While Sherman's space scenes are magnificent, most of the artwork is bland. I also don't care for Sherman's stylized versions of certain Legionnaires, e.g., Cham's high forehead or Garth's wavy mullet.

While discussing the Space Circus story, some of us have concluded that it's not the worst Legion story ever. Conway generously gives us at least three other candidates for that: the Mantis Morlo story (248-49), the Starburst Bandits story (252), and now this cliche-ridden mess.

Previously, I've noted how various Legionnaires have been shown brooding over the hard times they'd faced - post Earthwar issues, the destruction of their hq and mentally ill members. So, I feel it's important to mention that back in #260, the group seems to be on the mend, emotionally. They have a group hug/cheer. It comes across as a bit cheesy, but certainly good to see.

This sentiment is continued in #262, as illustrated by the team left working on the hq (Ayla & Jo flirting, Wildfire and Shady talking about getting happy, etc). Garth and Imra speak in Conway's earlier style about worrying about the other Legionnaire off on missions. It comes across as just too much. "How did you ever manage it, Imra? How did any of you ever manage it?" She calls him "darling husband." A lot. Bleh.

It was so cool to see the Legion working with Brande to create a new star. Wonderful!

The story with the Engineer was another typical Conway formula - the Fantasyworld Planet is shown to be very dangerous because they killed an entire planetary system. Then, it's stopped by Cham simply impersonating the Engineer. Sigh.

The thing is, the art is so amazing I absolutely love this comic book! Every single panel of every single page just blows me away. The detail, the craftsmanship, the action, the glamor. Dreamy looks beyond fantastic.

It's interesting that we have very different takes on # 262, Sketchy. You admired Sherman's art; I did not.

I truly think this is the worst Conway Legion story I've read yet. I remember seeing an episode of "Logan's Run" that had virtually the same premise: the main characters are taken in by the android servants of a master who has died. The androids let the heroes go only after they find someone else to serve.

For that matter, the idea was used in the original "Star Trek" series episode "I, Mudd" and later in the "TNG" episode, "Casino Royale."

Dreamy may look fantastic, but she has very little to do in this story. Just to give her something to do, Conway has her foresee an explosion--which occurs--and then pass out. Shades of Stan Lee-era Scarlet Witch!

The story would have been much more interesting, I think, had Conway followed the premise on the cover: the Legionnaires are trapped on a world and can only get off if they kill. They would really have had to use their brains to come up with a solution.

I'm not saying that one view of the story is better than the other; I just find it interesting that we focus on different aspects and use different standards to judge it.

It's interesting that pirates will return to Legion pages after this story (Cpt. Frake and crew).

HWW, we do agree that it was a weak story. I bet I would be whining a LOT more if there was more of Staton's "servicable" art instead of Sherman's masterpiece (IMO, naturally).

#263 - "Day of Judgement"

It's very Conway. Dagon the Avenger kidnaps some of the Legion's parents and leaves word that if he isn't given a billion credits, he'll kill them. We have 3 suspects, all of whom blame the Legion for being laid off from their jobs when Brande went bankrupt. Cliff hanger ending.

The more interesting part is seeing the parents. Shady's mom gets a touch of spotlight. Crav and Myrta Nah bicker about how Jo never gets a word in...

As for Legion , it's fairly novel to see Tyroc included in a story! However, he needs to leave to be with his people on Marzal. That makes Wildfire furious. Speaking of Wildfire, he's pretty snarky with Dawnstar.

Jimmy Janes's art is nicer to look at than Staton's. He makes the characters look very attractive, in fact, there are a couple of quite beautiful close ups. My complaint would be that it's still not as good as last issue's work by Sherman, nor previous Legion legends Grell or Cockrum. (Later we'll get dynamic and innovative work from Broderick and Giffen.)

My copy of this issue is very worn. This was back when my best friends were my comics!

#264 - "Dagon's Cavern of Doom"

Gah! I can barely tolerate writing this.... they figure out who Dagon is by tracking down which of Brande's employees worked on the Legion's new security system. Once they found him with the parents, Lightning Lad simply zapped him and it was over.

There were other distraction in the issue, like Dawnstar trying and failing to find Dagon. The Legionnaires almost collided with an aircar. Whatev.

I just find these stories to be tedious!

Meanwhile, Shady and Dawny go off to Marzal to see what's up with Tyroc.

I actually like these two issues. I always like stories where the Legion's parents show up, I just find it fascinating the Legionnaires HAVE families. I mean, so many heroes have parents who are dead, are only children, etc. But I have parents, I have siblings, so I love seeing comic characters who share that with me. I still find the idea that most of the Legionnaires have living parents refreshingly novel (which means it will be retconned away asap).

Yeah the Dagon mystery is weak weak weak, but maybe it's because I'm a child of the 90's (comic wise) that I don't expect there to be decent mysteries in comics so something as formulaic as "there are three suspects who don't like us, must be one of them (even though I'm sure there are entire planetful of people who don't like the Legion).

Still, I like the emotions shown. I like how Wildfire is so mad at Tyroc for leaving at such a crucial time, I think if one of my friends left in my time of need (my parents are missing) I would be angry and hurt as well. Furthermore, even though Wildfire is the most vocal about it, you see the anger and disgust in the other Legionnaires, but I also enjoy how others try to come up with a defense for Tyroc's action. Some people will always try to give the benefit of the doubt and others won't. Nice touch.

Art was very nice, some good dynamic scenes.

Really, I think everyone always said how bad the Conway run was that I was expecting worse. And although the stories tend to end weakly I still enjoying reading about the Legion.

I feel like I should insert the fact that I very much appreciate the way the Legion members are all accounted for in Conway's time. This group is here, that group is there, another group is elsewhere, all while big picture events are occurring. That is a definite positive.

steph,
I'm glad to hear that you don't dislike these stories as much as you thought you would. I think they're just rather dull and formulaic. That and they precede the legendary Levitz/Giffen era.

Re: 263-64.

I agree with both of the points Dean and Steph made: the resolution of the mystery is weak, but the focus on the Legionnaires' emotions provides much interest.

Dagon is the latest in a long string of one-shot villains. However, that's actually reassuring: Whereas other DC heroes could count on regular matches with the Joker, Luthor, etc., the Legion must have been doing something right to have so few recurring enemies.

Also, there is something believable about a villain who knows the Legion's security system and blames them for his loss of job. It's also realistic that he's defeated rather easily since (as my brother, the cop, can attest) most criminals are kinda stupid.

So, the focus of the story isn't on the villain. Sadly, it isn't on the parents, either. After the buildup of their introductions in 263, they quietly fade into the background, serving as nothing more than McGuffins (Alfred Hitchcock's term for something that a character is after). I would have liked to see some of them try to escape from Dagon's energy cage or have interactions with their Legion offspring. It's odd that none of the Legionnares whose parents were taken are present when they are freed. (Well, Wildfire says his parents have been kidnapped, too, but we have to take his word for it.) What's the point in having the parents appear if we don't get to see them interact with the Legionnaires?

Conway includes Marvel-style bickering amongst the Legionnaires, and some of it works better than others. Wildfire, granted, has always been a hothead, but here he's portrayed as reckless and out of control. He nearly collides with an aircar and then goes nuts when the Legion is misled about the parents' location. This from a guy who was recently the Legion's leader? On the other hand, some of his dialogue is entertaining ("Me? Why does it always have to be me?" and "Oh, darn it all, anyway!"--the latter when his latest encounter suit is destroyed.)

Light Lass scolds Wildfire for his recklessness and seems to be the voice of reason throughout the story. Dawnstar takes it hard when her tracking powers fail her ("I am useless here") and doesn't understand Wildfire's snippiness toward her. It seems that Wildfire is the center of Conway's characterization. This is easy to understand: as a "hothead," Drake would fit right in with the Marvel Universe.

I also agree that Janes' art is an improvement over Staton. While Janes is not as dynamic as Broderick and Giffen, he tells a story well and, as Dean said, makes most of the characters look attractive. My only complaint is that none of the parents looked old enough to have Legionnaire children.

So, the Dagon story is better than most other recent offerings, but it's still a so-so story. As a reader at the time, I was still waiting for something "big" to happen.

In Legion Companion, Glen Cadigan interviews Conway. Here are some revealing insights about his Legion tenure that might inform our discussion:

• At the time, he was under contract to write 150 pages, or about 6-7 titles, per month for DC.
• He had read the Legion sporadically but was never a fan. ". . . I was probably more a fan of Paul [Levitz]'s stuff than the series itself."
• The one-issue or two-issue stories were the preference of editor Jack C. Harris. Conway actually preferred longer stories.
• As a writer, Conway rarely plans his storylines out in advance. He has "notions," "sprinkle[s] seeds" and "sets challenges" for himself "to resolve later." An example is the Dark Man, whom he introduced as a device to explain the League of Super-Assassins and only later developed into a villain. He agrees with Cadigan's suggestion that his writing style is like improv.
• He describes the Legion as a "second-tier" book for him as a writer. His passion was JLA.

Just wait until we get to the Lord Romdur story. That one is a real groaner.

My thoughts on # 265, "The Brigadoon Syndrome":

Conway is credited only with the plot; J.M. DeMatteis wrote the script. While DeMatteis has written countless memorable super-hero stories (including the Defenders and JLA), this isn't one of them. "The Brigadoon Syndrome" is a serviceable story that accomplishes its simple objective--to write Tyroc out of the Legion--in the simplest manner possible.

This is unfortunate as, during his short existence, Tyroc never developed much of a personality, nor did he get to participate in many Legion adventures. Almost from the moment of his creation as "the first black Legionnaire," Tyroc became an embarrassment--a discofied stereotype of a black man with an ill-defined power that could do whatever the story required of him.

He returned with some fanfare in # 263-64--even being cover-featured on both--only to leave unexpectedly when he received a summons from home. (He cryptically explained his departure as having to do with the "roots" of his people's existence. How topical of a black character in 1980 to mention his "Roots"!) Shadow Lass and Dawnstar followed him to Marzal, his island home, where they all became trapped when the entire island vanished into another dimension.

Issue # 265 picks up the story as the two confused Legion ladies demand answers from Tyroc. He is slow to give those answers (a typical Conway strategy of trying to prolong suspense), but finally relates the story of Marzal's history: the island was settled by African slaves who revolted on the slave ship carrying them; only after landing on the island did they discover that it periodically shifted into another dimension, returning to earth every 200 years for a period of 30 years.

As for Tyroc himself, he inexplicably discovered his sonic scream power as a child, when he drove away a monster from the other dimension. (In a complete lapse of originality, he is shown wearing a smaller version of his discofied outfit even as a child.) Since he believes that his power comes from the alien dimension, Tyroc reasons that his departure from the island (to join the Legion) triggered Marzal's premature return to the dimension.

After giving this explanation, Tyroc concludes that his scream power can create a hole in the dimensional barrier long enough for Shady and Dawny to get through, then Dawny's tracking ability can guide her and Shady home. Tyroc chooses to stay with his people, who would never give up Marzal as their home.

As I said, the story accomplishes its purpose. However, Tyroc remains such a flat character that it's difficult to care about him; he does not even have to face a major decision--it would have been nice, for example, if he had struggled with some doubts about staying with Marzal. After seeing much of the outside world and making friends in the Legion, perhaps he wouldn't be so keen to give that up. Alas, what passes for drama in this story is a momentary indecision on his part about whether he can pull off opening the dimensional barrier.

As for Shady and Dawny, they are present mainly to listen to Tyroc's tale and witness his farewell to the Legion. (Shady, who has been featured in the last three issues, does not even use her power here or in 263.) The hook of the story is whether or not they can get back home, but this, too, is accomplished with almost no drama.

We are, however, treated to a flashback of Marzal's history, including a brutally honest depiction of slavery and the deplorable conditions aboard slave ships. While Conway and DeMatteis's intentions here were noble, the flashback comes off as too "comic booky" with heroic slaves battling villainous slavers. (We know that they are villainous when the captain backhands a crewmember for panicking in the face of a storm.) These scenes, like the rest of the story, lack any subtlety or depth.

Because this story marks Tyroc's swan song (until 5YL), it stands out as a high point of Conway's tenure. Unfortunately, that high point is still pretty low.

RE: #262

We're at a point where personal tastes are taking us different directions. I'm more in line with Sketch Lad than He Who Wanders on this one. Sherman can do no wrong on the Legion, in my opinion. His single issue return would have thrilled me regardless of the story.

I enjoyed the flirting between Ayla and Jo. It's a memorable scene. Star building with Brande is a concept that I enjoyed seeing fulfilled. Yes, android pirates are another example of what I came to expect as uninspired menaces from Conway, and the dialogue was thick, at times. I didn't mind the Engineer plot. It may have been used before, but borrowing from Logan's Run or Star Trek is at least borrowing from mainstream science fiction. Much better for the Legion than a trip to the circus, in my opinion.

HWW, thanks for the tidbits from Legion Companion. I've been rereading some of Conway's JLA recently. There is a definite feeling that he had more of a vision for the League than the Legion.

Your welcome, Jerry. I think I'm less willing to cut Conway slack after knowing how little he regarded the Legion. He doesn't seem to have put his full effort into the book.

If Legion writers are going to borrow ideas, I'd rather they borrow them from less obvious sources than mainstream science fiction TV shows. It demonstrates a lack of imagination and a limited frame of reference when comic book writers plunder Star Trek.

I respect your and others' love of Sherman's art, but, frankly, I don't see it. Sherman's first few issues (around # 225) were stellar, but his style is so eccentric and exaggerated that I find it hard to think of his characters as real people. At times, he seems to exaggerate things just for the helluvit (e.g., Wildfire's helmet doohickey. If Drake weren't an energy being, one might think he had self-confidence issues!). None of Sherman's women ever seem to wear bras. This is most noticable on Imra. One would think that going into battle without some kind of support would be a tad uncomfortable . . .

I'm definitely more of a "writing person" than an "art person": If the story is no good, then the best art in the world cannot salvage it for me.

#263 through #265


There are many posts here on Legion World, and elsewhere, devoted to the Tyroc situation. It's really such a muddled affair that it is hard to sort out what Conway contributed, let alone whether he deserves praise or criticism. As you guys have pointed out, these issues contain a lot of what is becoming familiar Conway formula. Was the Brigadoon Syndrome something that partially redeemed a flawed introduction of Tyroc, or was it something that made a bad situation worse? I think it made things worse because it ended up with Tyroc leaving the Legion.

To me, the racism of omission is greater than the racism of stereotypical portrayal. I don't find Tyroc's introduction by Cary Bates as offensive as many others do. I actually kind of liked his early stories. If there were flaws, they could have been written out of. The solution would have been to just let the character evolve. A good example is already discussed in this thread. Blok's introduction story provided a much different background for the character than the origin that we later learned. The problem with Marzal, I guess, was that an island of all black citizens shouldn't have existed in the 30th century. Future stories could have just shown other races on the island and the inference of segregation would have faded. The attempt to explain it with the Brigadoon Syndrome just reinforced the idea of segregation. Tyroc leaving at the end left us, again, with a Legion with no black members. The status quo and the racism of omission remained firmly and sadly in place.

Conway dealt with the same issue in the Justice League of America at about the same time. There was a two issue arc where Black Lightning was considered for membership. I thought Black Lightning's portrayal in the early years was more stereotypical than Tyroc's. He was even shown on the cover calling the JLA members "that jive bunch of turkeys" while rejecting Superman's offer of membership. The end result was the same as in the Legion. He rejected membership and the status quo of omission was preserved.

HWW mentioned Don Heck a few pages back. Conway became the writer's equivalent of Heck during this period of time. Give him a story to write and he would write it. The issue would make it to the printer on time. I imagine the editors told Conway to write Tyroc out of the Legion and to address the Marzal issue. He did it. That's what counted as professionalism. Conway delivered. The character of Tyroc was never truly redeemed. Here we are several decades later and Paul Levitz is poised to finally write some stories that include Tyroc. Strange days, indeed.

I haven't re-read the Tyroc story yet, but will get to it really soon.

If I love the art in a comic, I will definitely cut slack on the quality of the story.

Tyroc's farewell was simple enough. After re-reading all these stories, I just feel kind of annoyed the way the text is constantly telling us how extraordinary everything is, how perilous and deadly the antagonists are, but the plots and resolutions end up being SO simple and ultimately inane.

So, again, the art is okay. I keep wishing it was better, more illustrative or dynamic, to match the words.

I couldn't help but notice that Shady is wearing gloves instead of her bracelets. I like them.

Another note, Shady really complemented Dawnstar on how well she got them home from Marzal. I like that because it seems like Dawnstar has always received a lot of criticsm when her powers don't end up helping. Not much else going on characterization wise.

I agree with Jerry that some evolution of Tyroc and his backstory could easily have solved much of the "stereotype issue". I'd further add that all of this could be subtly done, then and now. Give him a current haircut, a better costume and put him in situations where you show different sides of his character (i.e. where he's helping children or something) and it can be easily done without being obvious. I'd also add other races of human beings to Marzal too and get rid of that plotline--in the 31st Century it shouldn't be so relevant.

All of your reviews of #262 make me want to go back and read it--I feel like maybe I missed it the last time I reread my Legion run (this might have been an issue we bought afterwards).

I like that Conway was using new atangonists in almost every story, even if many of them are forgetable. He did this in almost all of the major titles he worked on (with varying degrees of success). This showed he was willing to create new characters & situations and not retread old stories with 'rematches'. That takes a little bit of courage to do that so consistently, I think.

It's time for the Kantuu story, and I felt cynical about it before I even started to (re)read it.

Chuck and Lu as we know, are on Wondil IX. They accidentally release a giant genie, who makes a bee line for Earth. So they call the Legion and are able to warn Colossal Boy and Element Lad.

Those 2 guys were working out in the gym, and Gim was shown lifting a 30 ton barbell before he grew to giant size. It was probably an art error, but we Legion fans are naturally opt to try and explain how he did it. Maybe Gim's full giant strength comes to him just before he goes giant size? When he "turns on" his power, the energy build up begins while he's still normal size?

It's weird that Gim is so cynical ("pure hokum!") about the legend of genies. Uh, is he new to the 30th century and all it has to offer?

Gim and Jan meet Kantuu in space and are easily swatted unconscious. Lu and BB arrive and are also easily swatted unconscious.

To be continued...

The Janes/Chiaramonte art is only okay again. Oh, and why are Lightning Lad and Wildfire on the cover?

I guess the reason for my cynicism is that I now know the Conway formula. New menace intro'd. He/she/it will be very deadly. We'll learn the backstory. Menace will be oddly easily defeated.

Let's see if I'm right.

In #267, it takes 3.5 pages for the unconscious Legionnaires to pull themselves together. Then we meet Tage and Rin on the most mineralogically-wealthy world in the UP. I recall discussing Tage and Rin in one of EDE's threads. I like tough girl Tage and sensitive man Rin.

Anyway, Kantuu attacks this city on stilts and everyone dies except Tage. Now we know how deadly Kantuu is. Check!

Tage shares Kantuu's origin story, which he told her. This is actually interesting.... Kantuu's race, called the Djinn, went out into space on a conquering mission. They raided Oa, where the Guardians rather easily stopped them, literally imprisoned each one in bottles, and shrank them from their giant size to 1/100th of that size. The Guardians of Oa actually initiated the legendary 3 wishes scenario! Kantuu's bottle landed in "what was then Arabia." Kantuu was released by someone called Lord Saladin. However, Saladin's 3rd wish was for Kantuu to vanish from Earth. That's how Kantuu ended up on Wondil.

I think I'm doing okay with this comic book explanation of the Earth genie legend. I like that the Guardians of Oa made it all happen. It was cool to see them in a Legion comic. (I'm not a GL reader, normally.)

The Legion finds and attacks Kantuu on Earth. They easily get him to go back into the bottle. The end.

Sigh.

Gotta be honest, I'm glad Conway didn't write the Dr. Mayavale story. I'm just not in the mood to re-read that one right now.




I am, however, going to post a Group Shot by Ditko and post it in the Group Shots thread at Bits.

LOL, Sketch Lad. You've described the Conway formula perfectly. It's the exact same pattern in his JLA stories. The final page sometimes gives me whiplash. The genie concept was pure silliness. It was great to see Chuck and Lu get such a prominent role. Jan and Gim both got some well deserved screen time. This was a fun line up. I felt like Janes pencils improved a little this time out. Maybe a little less stiff?

Conway's creations *should be* very interesting or fun or crazy, but they all come out bland because of that dang formula for writing that he follows.

For me, Sherman's art can save that kind of thing. Staton, Ditko and Janes don't do the kind of artwork that can carry it.

Now we're coming up on the Dark Man story, and I'm actually not feeling very inspired to get into it.

Ah the Kantuu storyline, when I first read the first issue of this arc I really didn't like it, I guess because I found the genie idea stupid. However, once I got the second part I actually bumped it up to alright status.

Things I like:
Chuck and Lu, I always like seeing parts of the Legion universe that we don't always see, whether it be characters who don't normally get face time being the center of a story or seeing Legion reservists, subs, parents, etc it is always nice when they pop up in a story

Origin of the Djinn: Still don't like the genie angle too much, but felt the updated origin for the djinn works well for a Legion/cosmic/sci-fi book.

Tage and Rin: This scene always gets me, not only does Conway show us how powerful and deadly Kantuu is (the point of the scene) but he does a great job of making me care about what happened. I've seen a ton of crap get blown up and destroyed and probably have read millions of murders in comics, but this is probably one that didn't involve a main character that really made me care what happened. I think this scene is more than cheap shock, I really like Tage and Rin and feel sad because I know what is coming.

When the Legionnaires find Tage and say she's the only survivor, I really felt for her. So kudos for Conway for making me care about people who are obviously going to die. Also, I would love to see Tage show up again in the Legion somewhere, just saying.

Kinda Like:
A look at a different part of Earth, the Middle East of the 30th century. Nice to see some variety, even if it's very stereotypical variety (and Conway revisits the Middle East in the Grimbor/Reflecto arc). However, still appreciate getting the Legion out of Metropolis when they are on Earth.

Don't like:

Still not sold on the genie thing, the origin makes it salvageable but part of me still doesn't like it

General plot holes etc. Chuck just "happens" to know what ancient Arabic sounds like? I know he's from Earth but I think most people would have a hard time recognizing Old English, much less recognizing Old English a thousand years from now. Would have preferred if a universal translator or something had id'ed the language.

Also, how did the Legion beat the genie there in time? First we're told he's traveling super fast but the Legion is able to repair their ship and beat him to Earth (and set up their plan?)

And yeah, definitely a pattern here of really powerful villain taken down really easy. Of course it's not like the Legion never used simple tricks to beat powerful foes before, but for some reason it seems 'cheap' when Conway does it.

This one does feel mediocre too me, not awful, and has one really good redeeming factor, but still pretty mediocre.

Looking forward to the Dark Man saga though, although this one has it's problems as well, I do enjoy it.