Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION The Anywhere Machine Lost: Season II -Beware Spoliers

I just check my TiVo schedule and they have indeed changed it. We are now getting two episodes next week. The first a recap of this season (from what I can tell) then a new episode. Looks like they may be repeating the new episode the following week too followed by another new one.

Wha?!?! Stoopid football- I'm going to have to give Kippers a call and see what he can do about this.

I'm going through withdrawal here. I almost bought them crappy novels at the bookstore yesterday.

Evangeline Lily (KATE) was on Live with regis and Kelly (I'm on vacation, sue me) and she mentioned that tonight's episode will reveal some more about the monster.

And she said she hadn't been told yet either, but was fairly certain it wasn't a dinosaur.

It wasn't, but I still don't know what it actually is, or how it could possibly hurt someone. In real life, anyway, in comics it could work...

It's great to have "Lost" back!! (and with "24", "The Shield" and "Battlestar Galactica" around as well, this is great tv viewing time)

The producers have always been saying that the show is about character and they proved it again tonight with Eko's tale (and we have yet another murderer on the island!). They really manage to cram in a whole lot of pathos in one hour while moving the plot along (the monster revealed!! I suppose, unless it's just a ... smoke screen -ba-dum-bump!). That little look Charlie gives at the end is very worrisome indeed. That look whatsername gives Hurley though...

It's certainly no coincidence that Locke and Eko both stared down the monster and lived - they've been set up as yin/yang from the get go (I mean, look at their names). Men of faith but very different. A more detailed comparison would be interesting, but it's late and I'm sure there are more comprehensive blogs or sites doing that anyway. We still don't know what Eko was doing in Australia though...

I'm waiting for the backstory for Rose and her hubby -- there's gotta be more to that "I know he's not dead" thing from before (does she know they have a different fate?).

I thought last night's episode was quite good, the first episode I've liked in a long time. Eko is a fascinating character, the actor playing him is nuanced, and his backstory was well-written, with the added bonus of the movie-worthy cinematography which the show achieves from time to time.

As for the other business: I'm not convinced that it's Walt who Michael was communicating with through the computer. I think the Others are setting Michael up for a trap, and the coming attractions for next week, with an armed Michael resuming his search and several characters also arming themselves and following him, and the sinister whisper "This is our island", would seem to indicate further that the Others are expecting them. I think that Walt's phantom-like appearances in previous episodes were either genuine warnings -- him using the mysterious powers he demonstrated in the first season as the only possible way to call for help -- or simulations created by the Others and their computer. I would even venture that the smoke monster is a computer simulation, and it's not scaring people as much anymore, so the Others are gonna have to come up with something new.

Good all around, then. And yet...and yet...I'm still not a hundred percent sure I'm going to tune in again next week.

Here, as promised last month, is the long version of where, in my opinion, the show has been going wrong recently:

First of all, it's become clear that even though J.J. Abrams' name helped get the show on the air, the main creative force is not Abrams but Damon Lindelof. Comparing the first season with the second season so far, it seems obvious Abrams did exercise some degree of creative influence last season but has been too busy this season from working on his big-screen directorial debut, "Mission Impossible 3". I feel that the second season has seen a loss of control over the subplots, a greater favoritism towards certain characters, and a breakdown in internal logic which made me consider the bizarre thought that Walt might have been turned into data and absorbed into the computer.

Furthermore, season two has given us a lot more red herrings than resolutions, questions leading to more and more questions, loose ends piling up all over the place. As early as season two's third episode, I was already feeling impatient (as seen on Pages One through Three of this thread), until a couple good episodes convinced me to give it another chance. I'm afraid that if I give the show yet another chance, I'll still end up feeling dissatisfied and confused.

Put more simply, the center's not holding anymore IMO, making Damon Lindelof the Chris Claremont of TV writer/producers. And whaddya know, Lindelof has now become the latest TV writer/producer to start a second career writing comic books. Heaven help us all.

But if there's one specific peeve I have with this show, it's in the way it treats its female characters. Throughout the first season, I perceived an imbalance -- the male characters seemed more three-dimensional than the female characters. But I said to myself, give it time, we're still getting to know everybody.

Well, I have given it time, and I'm not pleased with where we've ended up. My favorite female character was Shannon, because I could relate to her in both good ways and bad ways. I was happy that she had ended up with my favorite male character, Sayid, and was starting to become less selfish and more mature; in other words, more three-dimensional. So what happens to her? She dies. Then there's Danielle Rousseau, whom I also liked; at the end of season one, she showed vulnerability for the first time and started becoming more three-dimensional. Season two? Rousseau is M.I.A.! Now, in fairness, I have considered the possibility that negotiations between the producers and Mira Furlan, who played Rousseau, might have broken down. But I find it telling that the most prominent female characters during season two have been Kate and Ana Lucia. In my opinion, they are the most one-dimensional female characters on the show, cardboard cliche constructs played by two actresses whose lack of real acting talent becomes more painfully obvious with each episode. I find Kate, who has been around since day one, particularly annoying -- indeed, opinions on Kate seem to be strongly divided along gender lines, as shown by this very funny blog . But since the writers on this show seem to not be comfortable writing female characters, it's Kate and Ana Lucia we're gonna get, whether we like it or not.

So, in the end, I'm standing by my earlier statement that the death of Shannon was where Lost jumped the shark. And as good as last night's episode was, I'm not yet ready to declare that it's done a reverse jump (I'd say it's halfway through a reverse jump and time is standing still.) I might tune in next week, I might not. Or I may stop watching for a while and come back later. Time will tell.

I have to disagree.

Up to last nights eposide, the whole first of the season has been maybe 3-5 days. The whole first month it seemed like was devoted to the hatch and what was inside. This season has been alot more dense and complex-Much more about hard facts/science vs faith/spirtuality.

So much had to be explored that some characters had to be shortchanged for a bit. Characters like Clarie and Charlie for instance. But as we saw last night, Charlie has been a bit busy on the island. And I think Shannon's death was totally justified. It was heartbreaking, sad, but her story had run its course and her death, like Boone's will help propel other characters stories further. Plus, it is unrealistic to think that people on a deserted island will all survive until the end.

If you didn't read the EW article naming the LOST cast entertainers of the year, then you missed a vital nugget of info. Lost will be expanding with the webeposides, books and other entertainment. So much storytelling is possible with lost within other entertainment mediums. Now, if this leaves you cold, I am sorry. But I still love Lost and do think its the best tv out there.

As for the female characters. I don't think they are underdeveloped at all. Sun is a remarkable well developed character and a great counterpoint to Jack and Kate and Locke. Rose is cool too. Kate is there becasue she is the character that is looking for remdepation. In a way so is Anna Lucia.

I think that if you watched the first half of the second season all togethere, you will like what you see much better.

Your defense of the show is eloquent and constructive, and I respect your opinions. I think what it all comes down to is individual taste. If season two is more to your liking, I'm happy for you, but it's not to my liking.

One thing I strongly disagree with is that Shannon's story had run its course, but as I said in my previous post, she was the character I related to the most, so I definitely have some personal bias there.

As for the expansion you mention, I simply don't have the time for that at the moment. Two or three hours on the web every morning for this board and a couple other things are all I can manage right now.

But I will consider your suggestion about watching season two as a whole, once it's available at Blockbuster, and see if it changes my perspective.

And remember, I haven't said yet that I'm quitting the show.

Thank you for a thoughtful, well-considered counterpoint.

anybody watch last night?

It's time for Jack's Army!

Jack's decision to form an army was a surprise to me. Looks like he might be headed into a very dark place as he steadily loses control over things on the island.

As he loses control or he tries to fix things?

ALSO.... I like the dark place Charlie is going too. Swayer is becoming mister nickname -- Mr Clean? that was funny. Michael leaving - will this lead to the new female castmember they are adding? Hurley and Libby? Better check that passenger manfiest Hurl. How about Jack mentioning Ethan and ole Zeke not confirming but saying that's interesting. Is there another group on the island?

maybe the others are made up of some of the captured passengers from the tail section of the, possibly brainwashed. Just something i'm throwing in.

I'm a little puzzled why Jack would ask Ana for advice on forming an army. I mean... she was a cop, but you've also got, say, Sayid, who was actually a military office. That just struck me as a little weird.

Maybe he didn't think Said would go along with it.

I think I've become a Sawyer/Kate fan with this episode. I really liked the scenes between the two of them. I didn't like the scenes between Kate and Jack. I was reminded far too much of a disobedient puppy following her master. Especialy at the end.

I'm really glad Jack didn't sleep with other lady. His dad was right, crossing that line would be a very bad thing for Jack.

It was certainly admirable of Jack to admit the kiss right after it happened - too bad it was too little too late.

Now if it turns out Jack's wife had an affair with Charlie, that'd be interesting...

well thats what i'm waiting for too, however the ties only seem to be between the passengers not conections between the people around the passengers. I also wonder if there is a connection between The Others and the passengers, what if since the first show there have been glimpses of the others in the backstories of the passengers?

Jack's background story here didn't do more than reiterate what we learned about him earlier. He gets caught up in his work, attached to it. He can't not heal someone. We knew he was divorced, it's no surprise why.

The bit between Hurley and Charlie was nice, seeing things sort of return to life as normal. And Sun and Jin's exchange. I like seeing her step up and them reconcile.

I'm wanting Kate and Jack to finally get together. He's probably the one with whom I most identify (and I'm not exactly thrilled by that.) I like Sawyer, but he's got more potential than to be saddled with a relationship right now.

And Locke... This guy is really getting on my nerves. I prefer Eko's subdued spirituality to Locke's preaching of Fate. First, Locke tells Jack they both have to agree to push the button. Now he tells Jack it's Michael's choice to leave the survivor camp. I'm waiting for him to get eaten by a polar bear.

The interaction with The Others really had me guessing. Did they not know about Ethan? They have Walt, but not Micahael? He's just wondering around with Desmond and Rousseau? These are questions that have me excited to learn more.

Something else else Goodwin said to Ana has me thinking. When she asked about the ones taken, he said they are "good people." And we know the original survivors are all flawed in some way. Maybe they all have some part of themselves they need to heal. Maybe I'm just rambling...

Did anypone else catch the name of the person that the "Other" the guys were talking to told to bring Kate out?


Alex.

Can the French woman be far from returning?

That'd be my guess.

Tonight's episode was wierd. I'm not sure what it accomplished.

Well we got to ask why Locke kept all the statues. Is he sitting up Charlie for a fall? Is he really the mole that Zeke was talking about?

It occurred to me last night that heroin might actually be useful if anyone is really injured or Jack has to perform surgery. It does seem a little manipulative, as Locke continues to seem a little more sinister this season.

Wicked downer of an episode. Kind of seems like Charlie, after being fairly well-balanced since his cleanup, cracked up a bit suddenly. A few dreams and he's setting fires and stealing babies? I know the backstories often illustrate the present actions of the castaways, but this one didn't quite explain the extremities of Charlie's actions.

Oh and I totally forget, how about the interaction between Libby and Hurley? Hurley asking her if they new each other? Her totally doging the question and giving him a recount of their supposed first meeting? That's kinda fishy to me. I like the dark Charlie and the eposide was a downer, but I can't wait to see where it all leads too. What have Anna and Jack been doing in the jungle? Where are Rose and Bernard? Why did they do the omnious closeup of Locke's face after Charlie told Clarie that Aaron needed to be bapthized. So many questions... but at least Charlie defended myself with a good agruement -Kate sees a horse and no one questions that, but Charlie has a dream about the baby and sees his mum and Clarie dressed like angels and Locke thinks he is using/crazy. Who is Locke to deny the power of a dream?

ADDED BECAUSE WAS I THINKING ABOUT IT...

Libby's story doesn't jive. How could Hurley have stepped on her foot. He was seated in the front/middle. She was supposed to be in the back, she's a tailie.

I almost forgot how funny my wife and I found the conversation between Ana and Jack--"That's what people do." If someone doesn't get busy on this show, it's going to turn into Star Trek, where no one ever gets laid. What the hell else is there to do on this damn island after 40 odd days? Wouldn't there be some shagging out of pure boredom? The only on-screen sex we've had was immediately followed by death!

And incestual!

Sex leads to pregnancy. Pregnancy leads to kidnapping by the Others.

Hence Sun being attacked in the prevues for the next episode...