Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! LSH in CSN again! (Minor Spoilers)

The Legion was the topic of the lead article in CSN 914. Not much that's new, but it's nice to see the powers that be are keeping up the publicity right to the launch.

There were a couple of comments I hadn't heard before:

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I hope Kitson wins that arm wrestling match. Matter Eater Lad and Bouncing Boy are cute but a step closer to cancellation.

Jorge

No! Matter-Eater Lad and Bouncing Boy are at the core of the Legion concept. Anybody with a power can join and prove as a great a hero as Superboy, etc.

You're just saying that because you're a founder and therefore "indescribably important".

I'm not a founder.

But I am indescribably important.

I'd like to see them make it in, even the guy who "eats stuff".

No kidding. Really, what's the harm? Isn't there room in the indie rock world for a They Might Be Giants, Mr. Waid?

Ow, M-E Lad and BB are so indie rock it hurts!

I think thath BB and M-E-Lad would work better in this legion now that they are teens against the system, not galactic guardians.
They could be part of a new legion of substitutes, this time the subs being some of the legionnaries that are around the galaxy and arent members of the main team.

If we HAVE to have em, let's at least see them a bit less silly, and a bit more useful — or just keep them at the background. I prefer them as minor supporting characters, personalities - with little or no powers.

If that were 100 percent so, there'd have been no Subs - they'd have been admitted outright. Several of them were definielt more usefull, powers-wise, than Chuck or Tenzil.

Maybe. But, Bouncing Boy was rejected too (and if Tenzil was in that issue of Adv. as well, so was he at first). He had to prove his worth, just like Superboy and he did. The Subs went a similar but far too slow route. Stone Boy was the only one to make it at first, but decided to stay with his team. At least in the Adventure Era, it was always suggested that the Subs were going to "graduate" into the main team.

It wasn't until later writers couldn't handle the larger cast (forcing a ridiculous 25 member rule) that the Subs truly became sub-par. In the end, they did make it, with the 5 Year Gap.

True.

I guess I'm leary of characters that are silly-but-played-serious, and would hate to see them doom Threeboot such that we see a Fourboot before long.

Cypher of New Mutants. Now that is a good example by Claremont of a character who couldn't leap tall buildings, blast aliens, or even look tough.

He struggled with insecurity cause all his peers had cool and powerful abilities. He proved himself to be a hero a few times over.

Kids will be able to relate to someone like that.....but Matter-Eater Lad and Bouncing Boy are just from a different generation. First time I read the name Matter Eater Lad I just thought it was the ugliest code name anyone could ever have...Bouncing Boy being chubby was cool...inflating into a ball...well I told myself it wasn't true. I am 29. Part of Generation X, etc.

Kids today are so MTV it makes me sick...there are other ways to relate "anyone can be a hero" in a more relevant way. Cypher is a good example and there are many others.

I REALLY liked that Chuck Taine was a supporting character and Tenzil was as well...one a mechanic/engineer and the other a cook...without losing what makes them special IMO.

You've mentioned Chuck and Tenzil in their more recent incarnation.

In the version before that, Tenzil was President of his home planet, and then a savvy legal-eagle with connections all over the galaxy. He kept his basic decency in the process. Chuck got the girl of his dreams and helped to run the Legion Acadamy, defending it from attack on at least one occasion. Both struggled with insecurity over their powers at one time or another. Both came through.

Cypher got killed.

Which do you think better expresses the "anyone can be a hero" message?

I've learned not to argue with Chuck and Tenzil fans...all six of ya!

The sad part is Cypher was around for what 10 years and more people know who he is. doh!

Jorge

I'll further press the point.

I think characters like Bouncing Boy and Matter-Eater Lad are better for the Legion than Cosmic Boy, Lightning Lad, Saturn Girl, etc. They are unique enough to let the Legion stand out from the glut of Super hero comic books that overpopulate the shelves.

Several teams have a magnetic character(s) (X-amples - Magneto/Polaris), electric character(s) (X-ample - Storm), telepathic character(s) (X-amples - Prof. X/Jean Grey/Rachel Summers), etc. How many have matter-eaters or bouncing balls? It was the quirkier characters of X-Force/X-Statix that made the team great and stand out.

I say embrace those aspects of Legion-lore that are unique. Written & drawn well, they'll make the new readers remember and want to keep buying the book.

a. I believe if I did a head count here for Tenzil and Chuck fans, the count would be WAY more than six.

b. Tenz and Chuck were members during the Silver Age when ADVENTURE sold hundreds of thousands to a million copies per issue. It's safe to say as many (comic book) people know who they are as who Doug Ramsey is.

YOU GO BOY!

Gawd, ain't it the truth! Give me Mr. Sensitive, Dead Girl and Lacuna ANY day!!

Nightcrawler to say the truth the founders never did much for me. It's not a powers thing for me either. Magnetic, electric, telepathy...eh.

And while I loved X-Statix look at them now. Cancelled. Getting an X book cancelled takes hard work...(and yes it was the best X book).

Chuck and Tenzil in the postboot is how I like them. We want to show an awkward youngter with "useless" powers struggle and then save the day...there are better days.

As I said I am 29 and am somewhere inbetween that old school silver age stuff and the matrix mtv generation. Chuck and Tenz don't fly today as much as they used to. That is why they used them as sppt characters in the postboot. Waid is already giving an Adventure vibe in this series...i'm a big Legion fan. If i get an all Matter Eater Lad or BB Legion there is a good chance i won't collect this book. Not what I'm looking for...and I respect you guys love these guys...i really do...but they are a quick way to cancellation.

Why do you think Kitson is avoiding them? Waid is already going to Adv...i would gladly sacrifice Blok, T-Wolf, Quislet if I don't get Chuck and Tenz. Sorry guys. Hopefully they get a nod...Chuck already did actually.

Merry Christmas guys...

Jorge

The whole Cypher thing. I always loved Doug's character. His death was to make the terrible "Fall of the Mutants" storyline more 'serious' (he was the ONLY casualty). That, and the creative team doing the comic at the time had NO IDEA what to do with characters that weren't straight forward combative.
Just as well though. I would've hated to see him turn into a member of the Cable-centric, over muscled, huge breasted Liefield X-Force.

On the topic of Chuck and Tenz. Tenz saved the universe and Chuck saved the legion on more than one occasion using their powers. It's not the potency of the power, but the application.

Not that I disagree with your thoughts here, Gary, but we have to remember the fate of X-Force/X-Statix. The book was cancleled and there's currently a mockery called "X-Force" on the market. (Yeah, it came first, but it's still terrible.) A point could be made that quirky characters aren't good for sales.

For the record! X-STATIX was cancelled because Milligan and Allred opted to leave the book, which was the direct result of MARVEL COMICS interfering with their "Princess Diana" storyline.

So that "but X-Statix got cancelled" argument don't cut the cheese.

EXACTLY! X-Statix was a top-selling book!

Clarification: Cypher first appeared around 1984 or so. Killed off in 1988. He lasted 4 years or less.

That character was ahead of his time. Today a character with the same powers would be le uber hacker and be able to kick major butt by reading body language. Just takes a little imagination, yo.*

Same for Bouncing Boy. Don't have him "inflate" but have him be invulnerable in a rubbery kinda way.

M-E Lad, though? There's no way for that power not to be silly. But hey, someone's gotta be the comic relief.


* <font size="1">And this is why I have become pretty much firmly against any more character deaths. It's not that the "killing" may not be good, storywise...it's that such prevents future good stories to tell using that character (without doing a convoluted revival story that, by its very NATURE changes the returning character irrevocably).
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I knew about the Princess Diana stuff, but I'm not so sure about the sales. I read that Spider-Man appeared as a sales-boosters. Also, Emma Frost outsold it in the same time period, and that book wasn't all that good. But you're right that it wasn't all that far off from books like Thor and Iron Man. However, books like Supreme Power, Wolverine, all Spider-Man titles, and core X-Men titles were selling miles above (more than twice, in fact). Worse, the sales were dropping.

I loved X-Statix. I didn't start reading until a few issues in, and had to buy trades for the X-Force stuff, but it was a favorite title of mine. All I'm saying is that a good story and interesting character don't necessarily translate into good sales without the standard archetypes. That said, Legion would have both, so it could work out well.