Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION The Anywhere Machine Lost Season Five (Spoilers Aplenty!)

I actually am digging other thoughts so thats a pretty good one Lardy. I feel like I've been in a vacuum for a few days consumed by my own theories which likely have holes in them and have taken several liberties.

I think you're likely right Eryk, but I can totally see them leaving it open to an easy interpretation of a good vs. evil battle.

There's going to be a lot of re-examining old seasons between this one and the next. I read something that mentioned the significance of Claire's dream in which Locke has one white eye, on black eye. Perhaps a clue that Jacob will also take Locke's form?

Incidentally, I wouldn't really consider Hades or Pluto evil gods either. They play by certain rules, but are generally fair and even generous in most of their dealings with mortals. The only really evil thing I can think of Hades doing was the kidnapping of Persephone, but that was actually pretty tame by Greek god standards.

On that same token, something else I was thinking about was Locke's first encounter with the Monster. It basically looks like a white light to us, and that's what Locke says to Eko. This is when he thinks he looked into the heart of the island.

Yet Eko says thats not what he saw. And indeed, almost every time we see the monster, he's black smokey. Most times Locke does its the same.

Makes me wonder if the first time Locke saw the Monster, it wasn't really the monster at all, but something influenced by Jacob. Yet, at other times, Locke has been manipulated by Anti-Jacob. Kind of like a tug of war between the two over Locke throughout. Which, if thats the case, would give good reason for Locke to stick around for one more season if Jacob's not done with Locke yet (especially if it was he who was responsible for his healing).

Yeah, Hades is actually pretty likeable compared to Zues . But you might be correct in its a conflict of ideas rather than simple terms of good vs. evil. I can predict already there will be at least one scene next season where one of the Losties calls Jacob a master manipulator, and not in a good way

But ultimately, I suspect Anti-Jacob's methods will reveal him to be much darker, as the "bad one" of the two.

But why? What has led us to believe Jacob is "good" and anti-Jacob is "bad" or that one is lighter or darker than the other? I don't think that Jacob's actions have been anywhere near uniformly good, or even that we understand his motivations yet. It seems like all of the drop-ins he had on the Losties were designed to keep them from getting to the island by turning their courses away from their previous paths. Jacob has been pulling the string of the Others for what looks like a very long time. Jacob has been the one advising Richard who advised Ben to do some pretty dark stuff. Jacob has been the one bringing people to the island to set them up...for what? Games of human nature? The only "dark" thing we KNOW Anti-Jacob has done is set up Jacob--and if Jacob ISN'T "good," then Anti-Jacob might not be "bad."

Someone with more time and gumption than I might look at all the things that dead people on the island (if we accept the theory that the dead and Smokey are associated with Anti) have told people to do or influenced, or all the things that Smokey has done, and see if they are generally positive or negative. Come to think of it, someone's probably already done it...

I assumed Anti-Jacob was bound up in the cabin by the circle of Ash (we still don't know when it was disturbed or who did it). I also think that all of Ben's communication with "Jacob" in the cabin was probably with Anti-Jacob. Remember, Ilana and the others went there first, presumably to confront a contained Anti-Jacob (or confirm he was gone). When they found the ash disturbed and the cabin deserted, they didn't hesitate to burn it down, something they probably wouldn't have done if it was truly Jacob's.

The best way I see of viewing Jacob vs. Esau is hope vs. fatalism. Jacob seems committed to repeated iterations of activity (part of "God's Plan" in BSG) and looks at even incremental "progress" in the results. For Jacob, it's not really over until the real end (end of life, death of the earth, irrevocable self-destruction of humanity, etc.) Everything before allows for learning, optimism, progress. Esau sees the same events as lacking in any real distinctions; he hears only the repeated refrains in the song cycle, not the interesting harmonies or variations introduced every time around. Both perspectives can be "right," and I'm not sure either is inherently "good" or "evil," either. It depends on whether your point of view allows for human destiny and progress, or you view humans as essentially animals with exceptionally good toys. Again, each point of view can be valuable to the other. Evolution of human technology, commerce and culture, if it renders human life on earth impossible, isn't really progress. At the same time, living an isolated, circumscribed and fatalistic existence can preclude a growth in knowledge, understanding and appreciation for the infinite richness and diversity of the universe.

So, what do you guys think about the fate of those in 1977? Will they just be transported back to the "present"? Will Juliet survive?

On the latter topic

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Apparently, producers have confirmed that Elizabeth Mitchell will not be part of the regular cast next season, at least in part because of her role in the "V" remake. She will, however, be appearing in multiple episodes.</span></span>

If Juliet is not going to be around, I'll be disappointed. There's nowhere near enough really attractive and talented WOMEN (not models, not vacuous twenty five year olds, not ewwwie ladies who pretend to want to have sex with Bret Michels or Flavor Flav, but mature, accomplished, beautiful women in their 30s and beyond) on television OR in movies, especially ones who can really act. I've become rather attached to her.

The problem i have with Jacob and Anti Jacob being deities of some sort is that i just finished watching awhole series where that is exactly what was controlling the people in the show. I dont really want it to be a repeat of that, that would be 2 shows that finished in a span of a year and both have the same exact thing in common.

Lab,

Maybe the universe is trying to tell you something?

Well, at least we know she'll be on "V". Though she may be a lizard.

you know
i wouldnt disagree with you.

I think Juliet might not make it, but I agree, she'll be missed. I wouldn't be surprised if the first episode of next season ends with her funeral.

She was a really great addition to the show, much like Desmond. I wasn't surprised by her death but I still felt something.

I do think the 1977 crew will be sent back to the normal time. I'm just wondering if there isn't some sort of stop-off at some other point along the way. I thought maybe the far past, but then I really can't figure out why they would be sent there first.

I also wonder: do any of you guys think Locke is really finished for good, or will he somehow come back in the final season? I mean "real" Locke, of course.

It's hard to imagine Locke being "really" gone from the show. However, the impact of that body being dumped out of the coffin was huge. If we continue to see Locke, he may be again a facade used by Anti-Jacob or perhaps as a ghost seen by Hurley. This is one of the many questions that await us until the final season.

I think he as a ghost for Hurley would be a great role. I've thought for some time Hurley would be a major player next season via the ghosts but it didn't occur to me that Locke communicating through him might be how.

I still wish we could have a scene where most of the major dead characters all interact with Hurley at the same time.

A lot of fates up for grabs, really, not just Juliet. Sayid also appeared to be mortally wounded. Locke may be truly, sincerely dead. Is Jacob truly dead? Whatever happened to Claire? Everyone else in 1977 is endangered by the atomic explosion.

And who exactly was that article (referenced by me on page nine ) referring to that said there was a Big Death coming? The only confirmed death so far is Faraday. Was he the one? Could it have referred to Locke, Sayid or Juliet?

In regard to 1977 I've seen some speculation the bomb might go off, time might be changed, etc.

But ultimately I don't think any of that will be the case. The bomb does not kill everyone on the island. The Losties are sent somewhere through time. Even the bomb itself might be sent through time--maybe even reappearing in the series finale. The timeline will not change: Dr. Chang loses his arm and Radsinsky ends up committing suicide in the Hatch 15+ years later. I'd be shocked if that wasn't the case (however, I definitely don't mind being shocked).

I do think they are referring to Juliet in that article, but we'll have to wait and see. I think for now Sayid is safe but I still wouldn't be surprised if he dies before the series ends (for reasons I've listed earlier in this thread). I know I'll probably cry my little eyes out if that happens--I can't even begin to describe how much I've come to like and care for that character.

Unless that article was referring to Locke as the big death. I wonder if they'll ever *not* make that ambiguious until the finale (or even thereafter)?

BTW, I mentioned a few posts earlier they confirmed the identity of the statue as Tawerett--any further comments on that? I was surprised it was outright confirmed.

I saw in a listing of new shows this fall that Elizabeth Mitchell (Juliet) has one.

Maybe to build that giant staue?

Maybe everyone already figured this out, but as I lay awake in the middle of the night last night, it occured to me what the bomb going off means:

If we think back to our first experience of the Hatch, you had to press a button every 108 minutes to relieve the buildup of magnetic energy. We also know it had giant concrete walls underneath the habitable areas, the kind which you find around nuclear power sources. Later, we see Desmond activate a fail-safe key down in that concrete area, and the magnetic anomaly finally seals itself off, while completely collapsing the hatch in the process.

So, how does this relate to the season finale? As we saw earlier in the show, the uncontrolled magnetic energy pocket at the hatch can run out of control. But, the Dharmabums apparently figured out a way to control it? How did they know how to do that? Juliette and Jack showed them, that's how! A periodic nuclear release cancels out the buildup of magnetic energy. This is what happens when Juliette detonates the fission detonator from the H-bomb. Radzinski, Chang and company whip something up that does the same thing, every 108 minutes. Heck, maybe the hostiles even help (hence the hieroglyphics in the hatch countdown clock) to preserve the Island. Also, a REALLY BIG nuclear detonation (like an entire H-bomb) at the time of the magnetic overload seals up the magnetic breach once and for all, which is what Desmond ultimately does.

Finally, we know from Faraday's research that concentrated electromagnetic energy causes time jumps, so Juliette's sacrifice sends the Losties back to whatever "current" year they are supposed to be in.

It was therefore Daniel's and Jack's destiny not to stop the magnetic anomaly (although if they had simply stopped the drilling, history would have been changed), but they were destined to show everyone how to control the anomaly so that it doesn't destroy life on the island and permanently cripple Pacific Rim airplane travel.

What do you think?

I think you've pretty much figured that aspect of Lost out DC. I've had similar thoughts but its pretty refreshing to see it all layed out. I think you're likely right.

Something else else I didn't consider which is brillant, is the button pushing is a slight release of nuclear energy cancelling up the build-up. Very good idea!

I still want to know why Ben let John think he could get away without pushing the button back in season 2. Remember John was stuck in the blast door and Ben pushed the button off-screen. When John asked what happened, Ben told him he did nothing and it reset itself. I get the mind games Ben plays with John's faith, but with something as important as the Hatch, that's a big risk to take.

It just seems unlikely that Ben wouldn't have a vague idea of what the hatch was.

It's possible The Others simply don't know the significance of the Button. We know they had access to the Pearl, and they might have believed the Swan was actually just a psychological experiment, per the tape there. Actually, that might have been the entire purpose of the misleading orientation tape in the Pearl.

Though that would lead one to wonder why Ben actually pushed the button himself.

There must be some significance to the fact that Backwards-Walt said not to push the button as well. Is that Anti-Jacob's doing?

Hopefully now that he's "in Sync" age wise, there's a good couple of episodes next season focusing on Walt. There are too many loose ends around what looked like major plot points with him and his abilities that were frustratingly sidelined.

Hope the kid can act.