Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Lardy's Roundtable: How forgettable or unforgettable was SLSH/LSH between Earthwar and Levitz II/Giffen?

The real original timeline, naturally.

I agree with your sentiments about Laurel Gand; I just wish another way had been found to introduce her into the Legion. The idea that Supergirl sacrificed her life and nobody remembered, not even Brainiac 5, was the worst CRISIS-related insult to both the character and fans.

Quite minor if you compare to what came on Zero Hour. "Hey, kids, everything you read up to here was worthless! Let's play it again from scratch! But we promise this time we will bring back cool uniforms and zippy codenames! There is even a snake!"

Well, that's like saying the Titanic disaster was minor compared to 9/11.

No, it's like comparing Titanic to the Armageddon.

Actually Levitz wrote his stories well into the post-Crisis run as the Legion definitely remembering Supergirl. Part of the problem was that the Superman office (backed by Kahn) put out the edict that Supergirl did not exist post-crisis and could never be referred to in current DCU stories. Levitz tried to fight it where he could but decided not to go to war over it so instead you get subtle references to Supergirl in his stories without Kara being referenced by name.

For example, note that her statue appears with the other dead Legionaires in the death of Superboy story. That was not just a random insert there.

But all of this typical with DC editorial for those post-crisis years until Kahn finally moved on. For all the great stuff they produced (Superman, WW, JLI relaunches, etc) on one hand, on the other hand they totally p***ed on many of the great other concepts in their library (JSA, Legion, Titans, Supergirl, Superboy, etc).

Here's one for you :

The founders set out in a time bubble (now time sphere) to recruit Superboy, but the time bubble malfunctioned (maybe LL zapped the control panel by accident) and they ended up in Supergirl's time instead. Since they were there, they recruited her instead.

Also concerning the costumes the founders wore in Adv 247, I chalk that up to artistic license (like Reed and Ben in FF having been in WW2 in some of the early stories) and don't expect an in-story explanation (actually that sounds like something Roy Thomas would do if was as into the Legion as he was Golden Age JSA)

The thing with Bryne is not exclusive to Legion fans. Bryne is probably the most hated guy in the comic industry with his peers. He's insulted or put down (or worse) nearly everyone and their work at some time or another. It's like he has turrets syndrome and just says whatever comes out of his mouth without editing first.

Bryne makes Shooter look like Mr Popularity.

My point, Ricardo, is that there's no such thing as a "minor" disaster.

I got your point, but I beg to differ. In economic terms, Schumpeter says about marginal increments and technological leaps. That's the difference in Supergirl case (a marginal disaster) and Zero Hour (a cataclysm). If you come to think of it, Supergirl's retcon was never much of a problem at that time, but it clearly mounted to something that got more complicated over time. And with other marginal retcons, it ended up getting more and more full of idiosyncrasies.
Zero Hour was an H-bomb - there would be no more contradictions because... well, nothing ever happened. Some winks to old-timers here and there, but except they wore similar costumes, this was never LSH. Which is okay, DCs and its creator's choice of working it out. I obviously bailed out after reading that stuff which seemed more like any other book out there.
I tried The Legion and still seemed bad enough. I came back on 3boot because it seemed that, this time, they would at least respect personalities and be more aggressive in aging LSH. It worked much better this time. And Shooter is actually making me forget that there is no history of this team, no chronology, nothing that made LSH unique (and, no, it was not Superboy or Supergirl - there is nothing unique on it, even though they had important roles on the overall team).
And this goes back to why Johns is tried to revive the original franchise. He is actually doing what Giffen tried (so far in a much clever way) with the SW6 batch but wasn't allowed to. And I bet that there might be a "history of LSH so far" if the Action League ever becomes the definitive team in order to retcon whatever needs to be retconned. Something else else that 5YL bashers would scream "heresy!" back then, but seem very fine if that happens to be the case now.

Yes, but there are common disasters. Any Cowboy Junkies fans out there? I was just watching the Common Disaster video with the tornado footage thinking about the midwest. I hope you've avoided any problems with the recent storms, HWW.

Crisis on Infinite Earth's was a common disaster. It was a bold attempt to tie the entire DC universe together, clean up some old concepts, and launch some new ones. Too much in the DC universe had grown stagnant at that point. Supergirl's sacrafice was a key element. It helped make the whole thing work. It stands out as one of the biggest events in the history of modern comics. The idea that nobody remembered her sacrifice is part of the tragedy and pathos that make it such a great story. The greatest hero of them all is the one who gave up everything, her life, her loved ones, her legend, her very existance.

I don't think anyone - Wolfman, Perez, Carlin, Kahn, Levitz, Byrne etc. - thought that reimagining (not detroying) Superman without certain elements like the Superboy career would destroy the Legion. They thought that the concept was strong enough that it could survive a reimagining. The Legion wasn't singled out for "destruction". The entire DC Universe was asked to change. More than that, as readers and fans who put down our money for the series, that change was promised to us. As is typical of Legion fans, we're still debating the fine details of the changes two decades later. A number of fans think that a great number of the stories that came after were worth telling, and well worth reading. There was actually something special about them that wouldn't have been there without the common disaster. I'm big enough to accept that a lot of people didn't like the changes and I don't object to anyone sharing those feelings. Sometimes, though, the criticism comes on too strong and from too many different angles. Like an avalange or a siege. It's important for me to speak up and defend these stories so they don't get buried in the avalanche of criticsm. It's important because they really are great stories. Some of the best. When new readers come into the fold, or when new posters come to Legion World, I don't want them to think that eveything that was written before the "Man of Steel" mini series was pure gold and everything written after was pure crap. There are plenty of great stories (and not so great stories) on both sides of the divide.

Well said, Jerry. I would point out that Crisis was not exactly the greatest disaster of all, now that I think of it. The problem is that not every book was restarted from scratch. So, there were plots hanging around everywhere, and probably Legion was the one who suffered the most, because it was (correct me if I am wrong) the book who was less "affected" by Crisis.
Before Superboy jumps on my back, I mean affected as "not being wiped out and reintroduced in a brand new world". Legion had to retcon, change things here and there, but basically the core elements continued in spite of it all. The price was paid later down the road (Hawkman suffered a similar problem being one of the latest books to be "reset").

Ahhh, you miss the point.

I just want to know where your rate it among Levitz stuff...he himself rates it badly, and I've always disagreed.


I don't expect to change your, "I like all Legions" stance...whether you like all of them or not, commercial viability is a huge factor in a books success...and I don't think you're being realistic that somehow DC can just publish a version for everyone and we can all be happy...


They want to make money...they're going to publish a version that allows them to make the most of it...if given that choice.


And it's got nothing to do with nostalgia.


Besides...I'd say all the changes foisted upon the Legion were done by those who are being nostalgic.

Including John Byrne.


Back to the point...If you remember...the debate in the thread at that time, was about where it ranks among Levitz other Legion work.


Who is it that can't let go of it?

I'm sick of it being re-lauched every 5 years...


Inserting the original stories isn't going to make a difference in whether or not I enjoy a current issue of a title...


That's a ludicrous notion....it always has been.

I'm not reading the original storeies when I read a current issue...I never have.


I will however argue when they tell me those stories exist and it's completely obvious that they don't...even using comic book physics.


I will not argue in an attempt to make someone like something they don't like...for that is an impossible task.


No one is going to make me like the 5YG more than I liked it at the time I read it...nor am I going to make someone who likes it dislike it.


And to me it's not even a fair debate about which version was the most successful...


And I've based my argument on nothing about nostalgia and everything about what it takes for a team book to be successful...not to mention the sales...


You OTOH, have argued that the Legion's current sales position is a defendable one...and even a moderate success...and obviously, Waid's reintroductiuon of Supergirl and Mon-El seems to indicate he felt otherwise...as does his departure from the book.


Addiontally...Johns version being more popular would also seem to indicate that the W&K isn't that successful. And if it gets axed...

It's not going to be because of nostalgia...it's going to be for commercial purposes.


What's nostalgic? You don't think Mark Waid is being nostalgic?


This guy is the #1 propronent of making comics simple and fun again...

That's nostalgic...he's also the guy that keeps reintroducing the characters, villians, and plays on past storlylines...


That's nostalgic. I'm sick of seeing Mon-El messed with and made the worse for it...

If you want Mon-El..you might as well use the most popualr version...


His solo title didn't get cancelled after 20 issues.


But they haven't been...


It's patently absurd to argue that the removal of the Time Travel and Extra Dimensional Elements have made the Legion more futuristic...

They've made it more like a contemporary team. They've made it less futuristic...and that is a point of different between the Pre-Crissi Legion and all Post Crisis versions.


More to the point...the original Legionw as written by true Sci-Fi authors and fans...


The Post Crisis have been written by fans of comic book sci-fi.

It's no suprise to me that the #1 failing of all post Crisis Legions has been the lack of imagination.


I like the original Legion...I like it because I believe it had the best concept, that allowed for the the most different types of stories to be told...Sci-Fi stories. And because it was the most futuristic.


I see the recent versions as being more limited...and that's not what I think of when I think of the future...

LOL is there even a debate about which joined first?

In reality it was Superboy.

In continuity it ws Supergirl.


It's not a debate...


As for why, I do think it was becaus of a screwup and as they often did back then, instead of getting overly defensive...they just made it a part of the book.


It's like wha Jim Shooter is doing with the Legion costumes...


Instead of just sticking them all in Legion costumes...he's making it a part of the story.


I consider that to be superior storytelling...

You're kidding right? Giffen's concept would and could have been done without the revamp...and I think he would have done something similar.

I think he fully expected to be able to use Superman when he came up with what he wanted to do...he was after all, DC's top creator at that time.

That story is the last time she is shown in a Levitz Legion comic.


And that edict completely screwed up Brainiac 5...and the only way to fix him was with Laurel Gand.


I agree 100%. She is bigtime over-rated and Jim Shooter kicked her butt into the dirt as EIC.


In fact he kicked her butt so badly that she realized she couldn't be an EIC...and that's why she hired Giordano.

She's just lucky Shooter pissed everyone off so they came to DC.


Most of the guys that were responsible for her successes were guys whose Editor/Writer gigs Shooter killed...

Wolfman
Wein
Thomas

Those were the guys that started laying the groundwork for the biggsst success Kahn would have...and all of them left Marvel when Shooter wouldn't let them be Editor and Writer on their own books...and so they left and became Editor and Writers on their own books at DC.

Did Shooter make a mistake? No...because they were churning out crap more or less at Marvel(with the exception of Wolfman) as Writer/Editor...

They did a much better job of it at DC, especially Roy Thomas., but that was as much because they were mad at Shooter as anything else. If they'd been that commited at Marvel Shooter wouldn't have killed their gigs most likley.


The other stuff...

Alan Moore: Alan Moore was discovered by Len Wein(I should say, he was discovered in America).

Doesn't take a genius to figure out Alan Moore is something special.

And Frank Miller was already a success.


Yeah she is big time over-rated, and DC was never the #1 company during her time as publisher or EIC.

She's the only publisher in DC history to never hold the #1 slot at some point.

Even Levitz did it in the late 90's.


And Kahn almost put DC out of business when she was first hired by DC.


Must be nice to be able to make a decision that leads to the company cancelling about 75% of it's titles and still hold a job...


Shooter OTOH got fired because he was outspoken and a lot of people didn't like him...they didn't fire him because Marvel Books stopped selling.


In a way...Shooter was more responsible for DC's success in the 80's than Kahn was. All she did was hire all the guys looking for work becuase Shooter wouldn't let them hack.

Oh, okay. I liked it better than most '70s Legion stuff. But, you know, I'm not the good audience for most old comics. I can respect them but I will pretty much always enjoy a good new comic more than a good old comic. There are probably exceptions.

Well, I should hope not! Why would you want to? Trying to get somebody to like something, as long as you're not being pushy about it, is a fine thing to do. Trying to get somebody not to like something is a mean thing to do.

I never thought that they could; I never said that. (I did say that if DC did do that, I'd buy them. But I never thought that the shot was on the board.)(Oh, wait. Did you mean a different version for everybody? That's what I thought you meant. Or did you mean a single version for everybody? I don't know if that will work or not, but if it doesn't, I don't know what's left for DC and the Legion.

As for commercial viability, that's DC's problem, not mine. I only care about it to the extent that it affect whether I get to read the comics. What I care about is whether Legion comics are good and whether it looks like they're going to be better in the future, and what kinds of interesting things are going on in the stories.

Lots of people.

Sometimes he was, and I wish he wasn't, or at least that he didn't indulge it in his writing. I think nostalgia's a dead end.

Then now's as good a time as any for them to get on with it.

I'm surprised to hear you say that; I figured you'd say it was that there was no Superman connection.

Basically I don't mind anything DC does to make the Legion more popular or commercially viable. As long as they also make it good, and there are lots of ways to do that. But nostalgia isn't one of them.

Didn't the Crisis happen in all times "simultaneously"? That is, in series that weren't set in the present (like All-Star Squadron), it happened concurrently with other titles being published simultaneously. DC really treated time as a place then. They focused on time travel on the scale of many years or centuries, not on travelling a few hours or days forward or back. With their rule that you couldn't meet yourself in time, this allowed writers to treat each time period like a different point in space.

Same problem...they haven't come up with a different version of the Legion that was as good as the one that came before...all they've done is reintroduced the original with tweaks, a more limited storytelling scope, and called it new...


It was only new to the people that hadn't read it before...it wasn't new to the ones that had.


If they are going to make something new, make something new...don't just keep reintroducing the same characters, with slight twists, and telling stories revolving around characters introduced in the Silver Age. What's so imaginative about that?


What's so new about that?


That demands a comparison with what came before.

It's not like the Legion didn't have a Supercharacter in every version...they just don't have one that is as well known, enduring or as commercially successful as Superman. That's a limit, not an innovation. And it's not original either.


Beyond that, name one memorable Villain created by the Legion in the past 20 years.

Me either...I just don't think re-introducing characters from 1958 is new...


Why keep introducing Saturn Girl Lightning Lad and Cosmic Boy? Those aren't new characters.

Why try and ame Mon-El as much like Superboy as humanly possible? The powers being similar isn't enough?


If only John Byrne had thought that way when he based his Superman on the extremely limited and umaginative TV version he grew up with as a kid watching the Adventures of Superman TV show...

Not only was it an act of supreme nostalgia on Byrne's part, tt was limited inherently due to the fact that Television is a more limited medium than comics...which are the truly unlimited medium.


I am as anti-nostalgia as you are...that's why I've felt if they were going to relaunch the Legion, they should do with all new characters...

And they haven't...they've just kep reintroducing characters and villians first invented in the Silver...

Me? I'm not nostalgic...I liked Gates, I liked Gear, I liked THUNDER...


But Cosmic Boy? He wasn't new...Leland McCauley? He wasn't new...etc.


IF they want to replace Superboy....why not create an all new character with all new powers?


Maybe those would have been better than the original...but the re-introductions weren't....they also weren't new, or original.

Kind of. The problem with that is that you need to start thinking five- or six-dimensionally for it to work like that (with a "metatime" and arguably an interdimensional axis to add to the three spacial dimensions and normal time) - because every time something changes earlier, then the later points cease to exist or get shunted off into a different timestream, depending on which model you're using (IIRC, Pre-Crisis DC worked on the first model, with the alternate universes being strictly "traintracks" running in parallel, having all been created simultaneously). In a bizarre sense, this leads to it happening at the last point on the normal axis first, as "metatime" begins to run at odds to normal time.

And if that doesn't make a lick of sense to you (and it's quarter past three in the morning here, so it may well make no sense), basically, I'm saying... the whole thing makes no sense. There is literally no way something can happen at all points on a timestream while ever NOT having happened, nor while being resolved at any point except the end of the universe. Since, clearly, every single Pre-Crisis issue didn't involve red skies, etc, history must have been completely rewritten for the Crisis to happen at all, and the E1-Legion can't have had a Crisis in their past.

LOL

Well, strictly, it's an interim, "during Crisis" universe, ended by All-Star Squadron #60/Legend of Wonder Woman #4 and replaced by the "real" Post-Crisis universe where Kara-Supergirl never existed... but yeah, you've "got" the basic point I was trying to make

DiDio was very clear after Infinite Crisis on one point - the Matrix, Matrix/Linda, Linda and Cir-El Supergirls were wiped out by IC, and thus Never Existed - the Superman/Batman version of Kara, with the croptop costume, is the "first" Supergirl the post-IC DCU has seen.

Here we begin to get into the distinction between stories published after the Crisis and stories in the "Post-Crisis Universe".

In the Post-Crisis universe, there was a Crisis - not on infinite Earths. Thus, there was a time before the Crisis in the Post-Crisis universe. What may not be as obvious is that the Post-Crisis universe is not the same as the merged universe seen in the last two issues of Crisis on Infinite Earths. It's a rebooted version of that universe. The last issue of DC Comics Presents was the only comic ever identified on its cover as a Post-Crisis story. It took place after the Crisis, but involved the Bronze Age Superman, not Byrne's Superman. This story, and some others published around the same time, took place on the merged Earth, not the rebooted universe. Thus, there was a time after the Crisis in the Pre-Crisis universe (!) This, I think, is the "interim universe" you meant.

Somewhere, there's a website explaining all this.

EDIT: Here it is. http://www.dcindexes.com/planet/
This reminds me. I always wondered: Why did Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl and Lightning Lad have to be established as the founders in the first place? In Adventure 247, there were other Legionnaires (not identified except by retcon). Why did the three Superboy first met happen to also be the first Legionnaires? They played with this in animation by having different Legionnaires go back in time. I thought of another variation that could've been used in the threeboot. The Legion began just as a social movement of small-l legionnaires. Superhero fans, not real heroes. It doesn't really matter who founded them. Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl and Lightning Lad weren't the founders. They were the first to decide to be active heroes. Once they did this, several legionnaires would step up and become the Legionnaires we knew. This way, a major plot thread would be, "Are we real heroes, or just imitations?" Just a beginning for one way to develop Mark Waid's concept. That is the first flaw I'll admit in the threeboot: ideas, but no follow-through.

It has been stormy around here, Jerry, but I've survived. Thanks for asking.

Hmmm...thread's begun to slow down a little! I guess explaining massive time paradoxes aren't much fun, eh?

Okay, let's try a couple of topics that kind of grow organically out of some recent conversations:

1) Who would you prefer to fill the 'Supergirl spot' (assuming there's one to be filled) in whatever version or versions endure beyond this year: pre-Crisis Supergirl, current Supergirl, Linda Danvers/Matrix Supergirl, Laurel Gand or, to throw in some wild cards, Laurel Kent or Power Girl?

In answering this question, let's assume that it's feasible to bring back whichever of these that are currently out of continuity. Explain why you'd like to see this and how you would execute it if you were writer.

2) Knowing what you know now, what would would you, if you were DC's editor-in-chief, have 'saved' the Legion from the removal of Superboy in Byrne's revamp?

You have to work within the rules of the time and can't undo Byrne's revamp or recreate the multiverse or anything drastic like that.


We'll see if these spark anything...

Lardy if you'll allow me...

First I'd like to give the idea I came up with when I first read that Byrne was going to remove Superboy from the continuity...


My idea is based heavily on elements from the Crisis...


Basically, I never looked at what the Anti-Monitor was doing in Crisis as the Anti-Monitor attacking every split second of every moment in time from the beinning of time till the end....it only takes a second to realize if that had truly been the case, there would have been no possiblity for any sort of linear story telling, and it also would have been an impossible battle for the heroes to win. It would have been over instaneously.


Rather...I believe the Anti-Monitor attacked certain eras throughout time, eras of great heroism or what have you...the idea being if he could eliminate or conquer those eras, the rest of time would fall easily to him, with no one to challenge him once he had conquered or eliminated the heroic eras. ...sort of like removing the bottom cards from a house of cards.

I believe the Monitor was cognizant of this aspect of the Anti-Monitors plan...and he placed his machines in the eras the Anti-Monitor was going have to attack. But he also knew he was unlikely to win a battle with the awesome power of the Anti-Monitor concentrated on these distinct heroic eras.


But my plan was for the Monitor to have an ace up his sleeve...he stealthily created a secret era of heroism through a series of seemingly coincidental occurences...it would be that era, the secret card, where the Anti-Monitor would fail to win...and the Monitor was also putting hte pieces in place to defeat the second greatest threat to the Space Time Continuum that the DC Universe had ever known...the Time Trapper.


But that era, that hidden era, it would be an era in which the greatest hero of all time was paired with the greatest SuperTeam of all time, and they were partnered with some of the most powerful technology of all time...hidden in plain sight.


This era was the era of Superboy, with him being the greatest hero(Superman) and the greatest team being the Legion...


And the technology?


It wasn't mere Silver Age story telling that caused seemingly every space ship, mystical/alien artifact, time lost or star lost traveller, Kryptonian/Daxamite survivor to land in 1960's Smallville...

It was the Monitor that established that link and caused all those coincidences to happen...and the result of all those powerful factors being tied into that seemingly non-descript, and even overly simplistic era, was a battle the Anti-Monitor was completely unprepared for...and it was the one he lost.


I'll leave out the details for the sake of brevity...

But basically, that era, that moment in time, doesn't fall...to the Anti-Monitor or the creation wave...


It merely gets pushed to the side, a separate time line from the main, fainter, hidden from the main time line...until it rejoins the main river much further down the line...

Or to put it in more appropriate terms for our discussion...

That separate underground river rejoins the the main river in the 30th century.


Alternate Pasts..


Now back to my river analogy, if you had a river that split into two, with one of the rivers going underground for hundreds of miles before rejoining the main river...

The fish and life coming out of that underground river, after a million years of evolution would be different from those in the above ground river, they'd be anamolies...and if no one was aware of that second river...they'd be wondering where in the hell those anamolies were coming from.

So basically, you'd have one form of fish/life at the top of the stream, and seeminly all the way through it...then at some point, the point where the hidden stream runs back into the main river..all these mysterious fish/life forms appearing seeminly out of nowhere. Not all of them...just the ones that could survive the new environment. Just a few.


And the result would be a new river at that intersecion point...or should I say, in the 30th century. And all those anamoloies? When they were going back to spawn...they'd instinctively travel back to the hidden river that spawned them.

And you could only get to that hidden river from the place where it departs from the main river(Krona witnessing the birth of the Universe) and the place where it runs back in...the 30th century.


So basically...in the 30th century, the time anamolies start appearing from seeminly nowhere, Superboy, Supergirl everything retconned out...is coming from that alternate past, and like with the fish, only the strong can do it, and it's interacting with the main time line, there's no reason they should exist looking back on history from the main timeline..you'd have to know about the existence of that second timeline, or be intrinsically drawn to it, to understand where they were coming from...

IOW, you'd have to know about that underground river to know where all the weird fish were coming from.

...and it's only possible to get back to that underground river, from a certain point in the 30th century...


So that's how you have Supergirl and Superboy etc. coming from a past that never existed, and that's how you have the Legion able to travel back to that past.


More importantly, that second time line is a tremendous source of hidden power, chronal power...basically silver age DC power...the Monitor's hidden stockpile of power.


And the result of it running into the Legion's timeline...is the most powerful team of all time...the one who can defeat the Time Trapper.


Without that second timeline running into the 30th century, the Legion would still exist, but it wouldn't be enough to defeat the time trapper...but with the additional power flowing into their era from the hidden time line...they are powerful enough.


Basically, that second hidden timeline is what we called Earth 1...with it's full history intact, including the multiverse...

But the catch is, the multiverse doesn't truly exist anymore so the only multiverse stories that happened are the ones hardcoded into the timline(IOW, no new multiverse stories)...it's like a viedo game where some of the doors work and some of the doors don't.


That allows for every single story in Legion history to exist...and it allows them to be tied into the Post Crisis DC Universe as well...once they discover they'd been traveling back into an alternate past every time they'd time traveled.


It's also why the Time Trapper was so intent on separating Superboy from the Legion...he wanted to break that connection, he wanted to dam up that secondary river...because the forces from that river joining back with the main are what would cause his defeat.


I came up with that when I was 18, I think I mailed it into Juliush Schwartz under the misguided belief he had enough power to put a stop to all this mess...


Nontheless...it works and it has no holes in it. And it saves every story.


And this solution still works BTW, you can still use it.

And I still have no respect for the imagination of John Byrne.

Uh, guys, I would redirect you guys to read what Grant Morrison said today to Newarama on Final Crisis.

1) It seems Dan DiDio screwed up big time with Countdown and Death Of The New Gods (which was actually a good story). As I imagined, Grant picks it up from 7 Soldiers to tackle Final Crisis.

2) His theory for the whole series seems to be related to string theory:

NRAMA: In that vein - can you explain the Orrery of Worlds for us?

GM: See Superman Beyond for the full story. Until then, I’ll refer you to current superstring theory which we’ve mashed up with the DC ‘multiverse’ idea. Where science walks, it finds the footprints of comics leading the way!

As I described it to Dough Mahnke for Superman Beyond:

‘some string theorists have come up with the goofy comic book notion that our universe is only one of many, with its entire three dimensions of space and one of time spread across the surface of a vast flat membrane, or brane, as the physicists like to call them. These branes allegedly drift serenely past one another in some hyper-dimensional jelly medium that‘s bigger than everything you can imagine, plus, sometimes colliding and rewriting one another’s laws of physics.’

We combined that idea with the notion (seen in Flash comics) that the universes of the DC Multiverse ‘vibrate’ through one another at different frequencies and came up with the notion that the whole structure is creating a kind of cosmic ‘music’, which is slowly going out of tune. There’s more of this and what it means coming up in the books, so I don’t want to spoil everything up front. Like I say, I realise certain readers want everything at once but sometimes you have to allow a story to unfold at its own pace if you really want to enjoy it.

The Orrery of Worlds is the Monitor name for the structure of the entire Multiverse as seen from the outside, on a higher scale. Basically, it’s everything that ever was, in a jar. What purpose does it serve and why should we all be very afraid? See Superman Beyond. "


To be honest, I'd get back with the Multiverse and have time get a clearer path at DCU. But I see Grant going to the right direction. And I bet so does Superboy.