Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Lardy's Roundtable: How forgettable or unforgettable was SLSH/LSH between Earthwar and Levitz II/Giffen?

The Dr. Mayavale issue alone will let you start getting 50% of the jokes on Legion World!

Well, Sketchy...I'm really more a reader than a completist, so if the readin' ain't good, I ain't really all that interested! Make sense?


Kent, I'm not really a passive collecter; either I'm hunting something down, or I'm not. So "fate" is unlikely to influence me here.

See, Des is a good salesman!

Lardy,

My opinion is that you NEED to get these issues, even if "nothing significant happened."

How often have you seen Legion Worlders refrence the Space Circus, Dr. Mayavale, the Dark Man, Captain Frakes, Conway Ditko, etc. etc. If you want a full-understanding of this groovy self-refrential clique, you need to have read these books.

Moreover, I submit that most of us here on Legion World were probably around 10-15 when those books were published, squarely within the golden age of comics fandom. We also were the last generation to get our Legion comics exclusively from the newsstands.

Reading these books will not only help you to better know that epoch of Legion history, it also, I think, may give you some insight into your fellow Legion Worlders.

I mean, I don't care what anyone says about "comics aren't just for kids," no comic book will ever be as good as the ones you read when you were 12.

Sure, today's Legion comics are technically better in almost every way to those published in the late 70s and early 80s. For that matter, so are the silver age books. But even though they have their faults, many of them, that period from Earth War to Great Darkness will always be MY Legion.

Well, fortunatly, this was an era when you could still pick up any given issue and get a more or less complete story. Although stories began to run more than an issue or two, they did not run on forever, as they do today. Even subplots got wrapped up pretty quickly, so you can pick and choose, it that is your final decision.

Mayavale would like to add that purchasing and reading his previous encounters with the Legion may very well be important to appreciating his long-awaited promised return engagement with the team.

Mayavale bides his time.

Well, FWIW, here are my thoughts on the individual issues, in question, if you are determined to cherry pick the era.

I always forget exactly when EarthWar ended. Seems to me it was S/LSH #243, but that #244-5 made up an epilogue, or sorts. I may be misremembering though. It's been more than 20 years since I've read some of these books.

This seems a natural place to start though [I'll grade each book on a scale of 1 to 10, skip it (1) to must buy (10)]:

Superboy and the Legion Of Super-Heroes #247 (January 1979) GRADE: 8
"Savage Sanctuary!" (A good little Fatal Five story by Len Wein. One of his few Legion scripts, although he did edit for a brief spell, IIRC.)
"Celebration!" (Lightning Lad elected leader - I call that significant enought to warrant your attention)

Super Friends #17 (February 1979) GRADE: 2
"Trapped in Two Times!" (Time Trapper app., with one of many origins 'ol tattered robes would get over the years.)

Superboy and the Legion Of Super-Heroes #248 (February 1979) GRADE: 4
"Beneath the Streets Lurks ... Death!" (I remember thinking this was pretty "eh" at the time. Of course, as a young teen, I had not yet developed an appreciation for Station.)

Super Friends #18 (March 1979) GRADE: 1
"Manhunt in Time!" (Part 2 of above)

Superboy and the Legion Of Super-Heroes #249 (March 1979) GRADE: 5
"Capital Crimes of the Chemical Conqueror" (not much, as I recall)
"The Arctoraan Jewel Case" (Chameleon Boy was established as am amateur detective of sorts during the fugitive Ultra Boy tale in S.LSH #239. This solo story is one of the few that ever spotlighted that aspect of his persona, IIRC. Worth a look for that alone.)

Superboy and the Legion Of Super-Heroes #250 (April 1979) GRADE: 9.5
"This Is the Day the Universe Dies!" (This and the next issue comprise the classic Omega story by Jim Starlin, working as Steve Apollo. I recall not being terribly impressed at the time, and that's probably because, although I did not know it then, the story was butchered down from its intended publication as a giant tabloid. That, as legend goes, is why Starlin removed his name from the book. I've always hoped DC would let him go back and re-do this as intended. Anyway, this book as a must have, given the luster it has taken on in Legion fandom. Also, Brainy Goes Bonkers is a classic Legion storyline that really gets it's first extended use here.)

Superboy and the Legion Of Super-Heroes #251 (May 1979) GRADE: 10
The Man Who Destroyed the Universe! (Part 2 of the above. More insane Brainy. The first app. of the Miricle Machine in more than a decade. The re-introduction of Matter-Eater Lad, who saves the day at the cost of his own sanity. This is the must have of the era.)

Superboy and the Legion Of Super-Heroes #252 (June 1979) GRADE: 5
"Postscript To Holocaust" (I don't actually recall much about this one, but it is a Dream Girl spotlight in an era when she got very little play. Worth it to see Conway's take on the character)

Superboy and the Legion Of Super-Heroes #253 (July 1979) GRADE: 10
"Night of the Super-Assassins! (First appearance of Blok. You gotta have it. Also, having missed out on Super-Rejects, Super-Assassins struck a cord with me at the time. I was always dissapointed that so few on the team ever made repeat appearances. Actually, Blok was my least favorite of the group, truth to be known)

Superboy and the Legion Of Super-Heroes #254 (August 1979) GRADE: 9
"A Madman Shall Lead Them" (Part 2 of the above. Brainy really freaked me out in this issue, at the time. This also was, IIRC, the last appearance of the Subs before Giffin got his hands on them and made them laughing stocks. Here, they are still played straight.)

The Best Of DC #1 (September/October 1979) GRADE: 0
Reprints "The Death of Superman!" from Superman v1 #149. As a digest, hard to find and expensive to boot. Skip it. There are other places to get this early crossover appearance)

DC Comics Presents #13 (September 1979) GRADE: 7
"To Live In Peace -- Nevermore! (Back before the main DCU had Khunds and Durlans and Coluans running all over the place, a Legion cross-over was a rare and special treat. This is worth it for that alone. Plus, I always like Dillin's art.)

World Of Krypton v1 #3 (September 1979) GRADE: 1
"The Last Days of Krypton" (A minor Mon-El appearance, notable only becasue it'd been years since anyone had rembered about Mon-El in the 20th century Phantom Zone)

Superboy and the Legion Of Super-Heroes #255 (September 1979) GRADE: 4
"The Super-Spectacles Swipe!" (I remember this as a goofy story, but it is the only time I can remember when the Legion when back in time to visit pre-explosion Krypton. You'd have thought they'd have been going back to recruit Kryptonians every time the universe was in danger.)

DC Comics Presents #14 (October 1979) GRADE: 7
"Judge, Jury ... And No Justice!" (Part 2 of above, both of which are notable for the introduction of Pete Ross as an adult, as well as the first app. of his son.)


DC Special Series #19 (Fall 1979) GRADE: 1
Reprints "Brotherly Hate" from Superboy v1 #172. (I think the only other place to get this is in one of the last Archives. IIRC, it had Tuska art. Interesting to see his take on the Legion. It is, as you may guess from the title, a Ranzz sibling story)

Action Comics #500 (October 1979) GRADE: 3
"The Life Story of Superman" (Legion statuettes appear, so it's not much of a cross-over, but this will whet your appatite for ACTION #1,000 coming up in a few years.)

Superboy and the Legion Of Super-Heroes #256 (October 1979) GRADE: 4
"This Is Your Life -- And Death, Brainiac 5!" (More fun with insane Brainy)

Superboy and the Legion Of Super-Heroes #257 (November 1979) GRADE: 4
"Who Stole the Legion?" (ummm. . . I don't recall.)
"Once A Legionnaire ... !" (A Bouncing Boy/Dou Damsel spotlight, albeit with Ditko art. Still a rare treat in those days)

Superboy and the Legion Of Super-Heroes #258 (December 1979) GRADE: 9
"The Mind-Attack of the Psycho-Warrior!" (Although the Psycho-Warrior has been much maligned, I remember thinking at the time that my fav. book was getting back on track after a few not best-ever issues. Of course, this was the last of the series.)

Legion of Super-Heroes v2 #259 (January 1980) GRADE: 10
"Psycho War" (As others have said, first Legion title of new material, Superboy leaves the team. You should own it.)

The New Adventures Of Superboy #1 (January 1980) GRADE: 3
"35 Years of Superboy" (Text feature mentions Legion. I never really warmed to this title, although I like it a lot more now than I did then. It's worth owning)

Legion of Super-Heroes v2 #260 (February 1980) GRADE: 5
"Come to the Circus and Die!" (All I remember was still being so flush with excitment that the Legion finally had it's own title, I actually thought the space circus rocked!)

DC Special Blue Ribbon Digest #1 (March/April 1980) GRADE: 0
Reprints a buch of stuff you're better off to get in the Archives, or the Showcase books, inlcuding, Adventure Comics #247, #306, #349, #352 and #353)

DC Special Series #21 (Spring 1980) GRADE: 8
"Star Light, Star Bright... Farthest Star I See Tonight!" (A lot of fans remember this story fondly. Worth owning.)

Legion of Super-Heroes v2 #261 (March 1980) GRADE: 5
"Space Circus of Death!" (Part 1 of above)

Kudos to Portfolio Boy for his comprehensive reviews of this era. I'm enjoying reading and reliving the memories!

My own take on the era is based on what sticks with me after all this time. I recall feeling disappointed in almost everything up until the Reflecto story (which I actually enjoyed). The book seemed to be marking time with story lines that never went anywhere and artwork that was very disappointing after the likes of Cockrum, Grell, and Sherman (when he wasn't being inked by Staton or whomever). And even though I felt that the Legion had graduated from being Superboy's sidekicks, the book really missed having him as the central character. None of the others were developed enough during this period to carry the book.

There were attempts at starting Marvel-style continuing stories, such as half the team going off to help Brande rebuild his fortune and Timber Wolf's increasing alienation from society, but they seemed lost in the necessity to do something with every Legionnaire every few issues.

For me, the highlights of that era include the much-praised Starlin finale, Brainy's recovery from insanity (yes, it was a corny story, but it showed how much the Legionnaires cared about each other and the lengths they would go to in order to help one of their own), and the Reflecto story, which, whatever its faults, represented a major arc that involved the entire Legion and saw two significant changes (i.e., the return of both Superboy and Ultra Boy, who was believed dead). It also featured Grimbor and the Molecule Master, IIRC, the latter being a villain who was used to great effect in SUPERBOY # 201.

There's also a story in which Brainy is called to account for the murder of Ayn Ryd (sp?), back in # 239. I felt at the time that the ending of the story cheated by passing the murder off to Pulsar Stargrave, and, in retrospect, it's probably for the best, but I liked the idea of a hero screwing up so big that there would be legal consequences. (Levitz would pursue this idea to greater effect with Cham's invasion of Khundia.)

So, for me, the era is worth pursuing mainly for completists, which means, Lardy, that you'd be better off picking and choosing what seems most appealing to you.

Valid points, HWW...but I'm enjoying PB's capsule reviews so much, that I'm leaning the other way! Keep 'em comin' if you have time, PB!

Action Comics #506 (April 1980) GRADE: 2
"The Children's Exodus From Earth!" (Skip it. It's just an A/R book wherein Superman meets Superboy, who's en route to a Legion meeting, while in the time stream. It's only really notable in that this is one of the few times this type of thing every happened. As often as Kal-el went skipping across the eras, you'd think he'd have been tripping over himself all the time.)

Legion of Super-Heroes #262 (April 1980) GRADE: 6
"The Planet That Captured the Legion" (Legionnaires help Brande built starts, IIRC. You know how Overstreet has taken to pointing out any pre-FF#1 character resembling a Marvel hero in the slightest way, promoting it as a "try-out?" Well, I've always thought of this book as a Dr. Mayavale tryout. But the real reason to get this, IMHO, is that it's the last example of Jim Sherman art on the Legion.)

The New Adventures Of Superboy #4/ (April 1980) GRADE: 0
Just a reference to Mon-El in a text feature.

Legion of Super-Heroes #263 (May 1980) GRADE: 5
"Day of Judgment" (The debut of the much-maligned Jimmy Janes on the Legion. Janes, more than Conway, I think, typifies this era for me. I didn't care for his art much at the time, but having seen some of his Legion era pencils in recent years, I now think he was a victim of bad inking. This and the next three issues represent about half of Tyroc's total appearances, so it's worth it for that. Also, we are introduced to many Legion family members, most never seen again.)

Green Lantern #128, Super Friends #32and Warlord v1 #33 (all May 1980) GRADE: 0
"Fact File number 1" text feature recounts the history of Lana'a Lang's Insect Queen persona. Skip these three and instead try and find out for us if the feature appeared in any other DC books this month. As an aside, does anyone remember if there ever was a "Fact File number 2?")

Legion of Super-Heroes #264 (June 1980) GRADE: 4
"Dagon's Cavern of Doom!" (Dagon was dumb. I kept expecting him to be Absorbency Boy under that helmet. Still, it's Tyroc.)

Legion of Super-Heroes #265/ (July 1980) GRADE: 4
"The Brigadoon Syndrome!" (Or, at least, it was Tyroc. This issue gives him a das boot from the Legion until well into TMK, some 12 years later. I remember being really confused at the time, having no idea what the hell a "Brigadoon" was supposed to be.)

The Best of DC #6 (August 1980) GRADE: 0
(Skip it, there are cheaper places to get a reprint of Superboy #117)

Legion of Super-Heroes #266 (August 1980) GRADE: 6
"Kantuu" (A nice Bouncing Boy/ Duo Damsel appearance. If I recall correctly, it was this issue, and the next, that established the couple as Legion Academy instructors.)

DC Comics Presents #25 (September 1980) GRADE: 1
"Judgment Night" (A rare Levitz script on the Legion between his two regular writing stints on the book. This hasn't got much to do with the Legion, though, except that it feature's Pete Ross' son and recalls the Legion's earlier appearance in this book.)

Legion of Super-Heroes #267 (September 1980) GRADE: 5
"To Bottle A Genie!" (Part 2 of the above story with Chuck and Lu.)
"The Grounded Legionnaires" (I don't remember anything about this backup, honestly.)

Legion of Super-Heroes #268 (October 1980) GRADE: -3
"Life After Life After Life" (Here it is, baby! The one the only Dr. Mayavale. This is the Legion's own Plan 9 from Outer Space, so bad it's classic. If you get no other book from this era, this is the one you've got to have.!)

Legion of Super-Heroes #269 (November 1980) GRADE: 4
"Who Shall Name the Dark Man?" (Apart from Dr. Mayavale, when fans recall this era, the most often mention two other story lines, the Reflecto debut and this, the Dark Man saga. Funny, because this really was kind of a mess, if I remember right.)

Legion of Super-Heroes #270 (December 1980) GRADE: 5
"Who Is the Dark Man?" (Although the story quickly went south, the score goes up because Blok returns. At least I think he does. He may not have come back until the next issue. Having the Dark Man behind the Super-Assassins never made a lot of sense to me.)

Secrets of the Legion of Super-Heroes #1 (January 1981) GRADE: 9
"The Past... Seen Darkly" (A must have. Despite it's many flaws, this was the first comprehensive telling of Legion chronology. It set a lot of fan speculation into canon and established time lines all future versions of the Legion would follow, to at least some degree. It was a sort of dry run for DC's many Who's Who books. Also, it is historically significant as only the second or third mini-series, ever. You need to have this mini series.)

Legion of Super-Heroes #271 (January 1981) GRADE: 5
"What Is the Dark Man?" (More fun with Blok)

DC Special Series #23 (February 1981) GRADE: 1
(reprints the Composite Superman story from World’s Finest Comics #142, which has a Legion cameo. Also another expensive, hard to find digest, I give this one a slightly higher grade because it has not been reprinted as often, IIRC.)

Secrets of the Legion of Super-Heroes #2 (February 1981) GRADE: 9
"R. J. Brande Is Dying!!" (What!? One of the Legionnaire's is Brande's child? Which one can it be? You'll never guess. I certainly didn't.)

Legion of Super-Heroes #272 (February 1981) GRADE: 7
"The Secret Origin of Blok!" Blok's origin isn't much, but this issue introduces Crystal Kid, Lamprey and Nightwind. It also firmly established Wildfire's role as trainer of new heroes, which was made much use of in later comics. This issue was double-sized, thanks to a Dial H for Hero insert, which adds to the fun.)


Secrets of the Legion of Super-Heroes #3 (March 1981) GRADE: 9
"Revelation!" (Although it struck me as profoundly stupid at the time, establishing Cham as Brande's son would lead to some of my favorite Legion comics of all time. Buy it.)

Legion of Super-Heroes #273 (March 1981) GRADE: 5
[i]"A Murderer -- Among Us?"[i] (Fairly forgettable, in part because you need S/LSH #239 to know what's going on, Still, it's significant because it reintroduces Marte Allon after nearly 15 years and makes her President of Earth.)

What about the Secrets of the Legion mini-series?

that was a classic not just for the LSH but comics in general

This run is largely drek. Don't bother hunting it down.

You want to know what happened?


Gerry Conway happened...


Gerry Conway singlehandedly nearly killed the comics industry in the mid 70's....dude had one good run on a comic in his entire career(Amazing Spiderman) and somehow parlayed that into an EICship at Marvel and a writing tenure on virtually every mainstream character and team in comics in the seventies.


And he embodied the term hack!


I am an unabashed fan of Superboy and the Legion, but even I will concede the point that that era would have had a better chance of succeeding if Conway hadn't been the guy that did the bulk of the writing.

I actually read many of these issues for the first time in the last month, Lardy. I'm going to probably support the idea to pick and choose if you get them at all.

On the one hand, it was fun to read stories like the Dark Man and Reflecto for the first time after vaguely knowing about what happened for 15 years. But by the end of those tales, I wasn't excited for the next issue like I was after reading Great Darkness Saga or even the Omen storyline for the first time.

I'm glad I read them to satisfy my curiousity, but probably won't give them a re-read anytime soon. Some of the art was jarring and the writing/character's actions were hokey in places. A lot of the stories really were self-contained, and while there was continuity not a lot of Legionnaires progressed in any way during this time.

Hehe I just read the Mayavale issue for the first time today. Ugg awful ugly artwork especially Dreamy's hair. Bad story.

But Dreamy did get to kick his @ss hehe

It's a wonder they didn't reboot the Legion back then.

Continuity was so entrenched at both Marvel and DC back then that rebooting was unthinkable.

Oh, for the good old days.

Seeing how this topic has really had legs for a while now (probably longest time spent on the front page with more responses than any LSH topic I've ever started), I'm beginning to think I may have hit on something. Was this period the low point for the "classic" Legion?

Yes, I know TMK was the most controversial era before the Zero Hour reboot with its avid lovers and diehard haters, but you could argue that with its many fierce proponents (like myself), it might at least rank above the era being discussed her. I mean would anyone say the era between Earth War and Levitz/Giffen was their very favorite?

I know many would probably take this era over either reboot, but the question remains: Preboot, was this the most forgettable era of the Legion?

For me, the "most forgettable era of the [preboot] Legion" was the ACTION run. Very little was done with the series at that time, as it was restricted to a backup slot and marked time until its (temporary) cancellation. Even the villains (Uli Algor, Yark Althu) were not memorable.

In comparison, the late '70s/early '80s period at least attempted to make progress. Some major events happened, and some new story ideas were tried, so it wasn't a total failure.

Does the Action run really count as a full era, HWW? To me, it was an attempt to keep the LSH alive during a dark time, and I'd either put it as a coda to the late Adventure run or as a preamble to their return in Superboy. The Action run was completed in one Archive. You'd probably need 4 or 5 to complete the era discussed here.

Well, it depends on how you define "era," doesn't it?

The ACTION run is sufficiently different in its tone and the types of stories it told that I wouldn't consider it to be merely an appendage to the ADVENTURE run. Your mileage may vary.

For that matter, the period between the Earth War and Levitz's return is not a unified period, but a collection of different ones under different creators. If one takes all of the out-of-series stories and SECRETS into account (as Portfolio Boy does), then one might argue that it's too long and unwieldy to be an era.

True, but I think it the period in this era counts as an era because of its aimlessness and heavy Conway influence. Certainly, it was a long period where some major creators left (Levitz, Grell, Sherman) and the LSH mostly stayed in a holding pattern until someone else took over who had an idea of what to do with it. Kinda like the Action run, actually!

Seems like I've heard a lot of stories where creators didn't want to work on the title during this time but did so to make a buck until something better came along. I don't think that happened as much before or especially after this era. Seems like since then, we've had a series of creators who really wanted to do the title, for better or for worse.

But if you want to count Action as its own era, I can respect that, though I disagree. I'd really group it with the Superboy/Cockrum/Bates run myself.

I agree with HWW that the Action run counts as its own era, as I generally don’t see it as part of the Adventure Era (or a coda for it). I didn’t even realize for years that it came so soon after Adventure when I first read those stories in the Archives because the tone of the series felt so different.

Personally, I’m not sure either qualifies as the ‘worst era’ of Legion preboot history, since neither (to me) has ever been bad enough where I simply don’t want to read the comics when I reread the entire thing. However, I’d say the Conway issues are probably a low point, though like HHW says, stories during this era are kind of peppered via tone, creator, and other criteria.

Others may have a different opinion, but to me, there’s no real major low point during the preboot. Then again, I was 8 years old when TMK #1 came out, so I view the entire preboot differently from someone who lived from era to era.

I actually love the Action run, so I don't know what you guys are talking about. While certainly the constraints of the run prevented having really epic storylines, there's a lot of great character pieces during that era.

I agree with EDE that the Action issues had some charming moments and character development. Generally, it seems those backups are looked at fondly by most people I've seen talk about them. Much less so with this 'tween' era.